berk vs ucla ($$$)

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LittleTree
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berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby LittleTree » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:44 am

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Last edited by LittleTree on Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:23 am

Considering the long term impacts of missing biglaw being a very large amount of money, I would pick Berk. You won't be debt owned if biglaw doesn't work out whereas your career trajectory will suffer just the same if you miss biglaw from UCLA.


But, I don't think UCLA is worth $200k less than UCB.

This is hard.

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francesfarmer
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:45 am

I think either option is good--someone less lazy than me could do some great cost-benefit analysis of this situation. Is Berkeley worth $150k more than UCLA over the course of a lifetime? That is a definite maybe, especially considering that you will only graduate with $50k in debt (and possibly less than that), and considering your bay area ties.

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sinfiery
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:54 am

someone did a cost benefit of missing biglaw on career earnings and it came to around $1,000,000 so 500,000$ here give or take how you skew the percentages

LittleTree
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby LittleTree » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:22 pm

sinfiery wrote:Considering the long term impacts of missing biglaw being a very large amount of money, I would pick Berk. You won't be debt owned if biglaw doesn't work out whereas your career trajectory will suffer just the same if you miss biglaw from UCLA.


But, I don't think UCLA is worth $200k less than UCB.

This is hard.


My heart is telling me berkeley - I think I'm just here trying to make it seem financially justifiable, which your next post does. Still hard though.

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francesfarmer
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:27 pm

LittleTree wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Considering the long term impacts of missing biglaw being a very large amount of money, I would pick Berk. You won't be debt owned if biglaw doesn't work out whereas your career trajectory will suffer just the same if you miss biglaw from UCLA.


But, I don't think UCLA is worth $200k less than UCB.

This is hard.


My heart is telling me berkeley - I think I'm just here trying to make it seem financially justifiable, which your next post does. Still hard though.

Berkeley for $50k is a great deal, and if you get biglaw, you'll make up that $100k in a few years. It's not like you saved that money up. Just pretend like it never existed?

Consider QOL as well. It sounds like you will be happier at Berkeley.

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twenty
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby twenty » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:57 pm

You can graduate with 50k debt from Berkeley? I'd absolutely take that.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:00 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:You can graduate with 50k debt from Berkeley? I'd absolutely take that.


This type of thinking is useless... it's not a question of how much debt you graduate with, but rather how much it cost you ... in this case, its a swing of $150K. I'd still take berkeley tho..
.

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jbagelboy
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:37 pm

Usually I would say derp it to Berk my bro and be done.

But you said you will have $100K left over if you attend UCLA? So people are literally handing you a trust, rather than just using it on educational expense? Most people present UCLA debt free or Cal with some debt, in which case I say berkeley always, but you will literally have a hundred thousand dollars (far more than the average american ever saves in their lifetime) to use on whatever you want and still get a UCLA JD? In this case, yea we are talking about money you are spending. You could do a lot with 100K and its not like biglaw is impossible out of UCLA.. Its just less chance that at Cal. Im really torn and if I were you Id probably actually go to UCLA and invest/save that extra cash (after buying one of the new 328i's -- or if it were really me, keeping my current car and not have to sell it for Col.)

Wouldnt fault you at all for taking Berkeley here. Its usually my vote. But theres a 70-75% chance you'll wind up at the same job at either school and be like damn, wheres my 100K? And its not like we are comparing Berkeley and Pepperdine, or Harvard and UCLA; the schools remain somewhat comparable.

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Rahviveh
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:38 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Usually I would say derp it to Berk my bro and be done.

But you said you will have $100K left over if you attend UCLA? So people are literally handing you a trust, rather than just using it on educational expense? Most people present UCLA debt free or Cal with some debt, in which case I say berkeley always, but you will literally have a hundred thousand dollars (far more than the average american ever saves in their lifetime) to use on whatever you want and still get a UCLA JD? In this case, yea we are talking about money you are spending. You could do a lot with 100K and its not like biglaw is impossible out of UCLA.. Its just less chance that at Cal. Im really torn and if I were you Id probably actually go to UCLA and invest/save that extra cash (after buying one of the new 328i's -- or if it were really me, keeping my current car and not have to sell it for Col.)

Wouldnt fault you at all for taking Berkeley here. Its usually my vote. But theres a 70-75% chance you'll wind up at the same job at either school and be like damn, wheres my 100K? And its not like we are comparing Berkeley and Pepperdine, or Harvard and UCLA; the schools remain somewhat comparable.


Yeah, I would try to get info on how UCLA students will full-rides perform grade-wise and at OCI.

LittleTree
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby LittleTree » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:51 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Usually I would say derp it to Berk my bro and be done.

But you said you will have $100K left over if you attend UCLA? So people are literally handing you a trust, rather than just using it on educational expense? Most people present UCLA debt free or Cal with some debt, in which case I say berkeley always, but you will literally have a hundred thousand dollars (far more than the average american ever saves in their lifetime) to use on whatever you want and still get a UCLA JD? In this case, yea we are talking about money you are spending. You could do a lot with 100K and its not like biglaw is impossible out of UCLA.. Its just less chance that at Cal. Im really torn and if I were you Id probably actually go to UCLA and invest/save that extra cash (after buying one of the new 328i's -- or if it were really me, keeping my current car and not have to sell it for Col.)

Wouldnt fault you at all for taking Berkeley here. Its usually my vote. But theres a 70-75% chance you'll wind up at the same job at either school and be like damn, wheres my 100K? And its not like we are comparing Berkeley and Pepperdine, or Harvard and UCLA; the schools remain somewhat comparable.


Yeah, I would try to get info on how UCLA students will full-rides perform grade-wise and at OCI.


I've been told that people in my situation tend to perform very well, but that's all I could muster from them. The money swing is certainly eating at me because it doesnt take a genius to realize how much that nest egg could compound into. Besides the fact that I think I would be happier up north, I'm worried about the situation where I miss biglaw from ucla. Then of course I think about missing biglaw from berkeley. Then I think about making biglaw from berkeley. Then I think about the awesome scenario where I get norcal biglaw from ucla... I think you guys can see how my mind is spinning.

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jbagelboy
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:20 pm

LittleTree wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Usually I would say derp it to Berk my bro and be done.

But you said you will have $100K left over if you attend UCLA? So people are literally handing you a trust, rather than just using it on educational expense? Most people present UCLA debt free or Cal with some debt, in which case I say berkeley always, but you will literally have a hundred thousand dollars (far more than the average american ever saves in their lifetime) to use on whatever you want and still get a UCLA JD? In this case, yea we are talking about money you are spending. You could do a lot with 100K and its not like biglaw is impossible out of UCLA.. Its just less chance that at Cal. Im really torn and if I were you Id probably actually go to UCLA and invest/save that extra cash (after buying one of the new 328i's -- or if it were really me, keeping my current car and not have to sell it for Col.)

Wouldnt fault you at all for taking Berkeley here. Its usually my vote. But theres a 70-75% chance you'll wind up at the same job at either school and be like damn, wheres my 100K? And its not like we are comparing Berkeley and Pepperdine, or Harvard and UCLA; the schools remain somewhat comparable.


Yeah, I would try to get info on how UCLA students will full-rides perform grade-wise and at OCI.


I've been told that people in my situation tend to perform very well, but that's all I could muster from them. The money swing is certainly eating at me because it doesnt take a genius to realize how much that nest egg could compound into. Besides the fact that I think I would be happier up north, I'm worried about the situation where I miss biglaw from ucla. Then of course I think about missing biglaw from berkeley. Then I think about making biglaw from berkeley. Then I think about the awesome scenario where I get norcal biglaw from ucla... I think you guys can see how my mind is spinning.


I would also think about it maybe with worst case scenario: you miss biglaw at both schools and you're in a $40-50K/year legal job in Fresno or Riverside county or some god-awful part of the state. How easy will it be to recover a hundred grand? Certainly not via your own salary. If your family is giving you what, $175K roughly? then how much more is there to come when you're older? Is there a massive inheritance waiting for you (in which case Berkeley is definitely TCR)? Or is that basically all of your extended families' resources being poured into your education (in which case I say UCLA)? there are other considerations at play here, and with CA's volatile market, both schools have some risk of missing out, and you want to know what kind of safety net you are truly giving up with that extra cash. Also of course, there are personally issues.. what your SO wants, ect. But with this much cash on the table, its provenance becomes an issue to consider. Others on this site may disagree but it would be important to me. I'm not saying you should disclose your entire situation here, you just have to think about it.

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twenty
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby twenty » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:33 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:You can graduate with 50k debt from Berkeley? I'd absolutely take that.


This type of thinking is useless... it's not a question of how much debt you graduate with, but rather how much it cost you ... in this case, its a swing of $150K. I'd still take berkeley tho..
.


Nahbro, the amount of debt you graduate with absolutely factors into the decision. If you strike out of OCI with 170k debt accumulating interest at 7.8%, you're a lot more effed than if you strike out of OCI with 50k debt from Staffords.

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sundance95
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby sundance95 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:35 pm

sinfiery wrote:Considering the long term impacts of missing biglaw being a very large amount of money, I would pick Berk. You won't be debt owned if biglaw doesn't work out whereas your career trajectory will suffer just the same if you miss biglaw from UCLA.


But, I don't think UCLA is worth $200k less than UCB.

This is hard.

I'm amazed at how much folks discount debt on this board. You can either get a UCLA degree with 100K + 3 years of growth in your pocket, or a Cal degree and be 50k in the hole. You don't even know if you would like biglaw--many people bounce out in two years or less. I suppose you could get that 150K back in that time if you paid down debt and saved your ass off, but its unlikely, especially if you aren't single. And as others have pointed out, you can miss biglaw from Boalt too.

The NorCal/SoCal thing is something to consider, but is it worth $150k? That's almost half a down payment on a bay area home, and is almost a full down payment on an LA home.

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sundance95
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby sundance95 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:37 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
ManOfTheMinute wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:You can graduate with 50k debt from Berkeley? I'd absolutely take that.


This type of thinking is useless... it's not a question of how much debt you graduate with, but rather how much it cost you ... in this case, its a swing of $150K. I'd still take berkeley tho..
.


Nahbro, the amount of debt you graduate with absolutely factors into the decision. If you strike out of OCI with 170k debt accumulating interest at 7.8%, you're a lot more effed than if you strike out of OCI with 50k debt from Staffords.

Not really, since all Staffords for grads are unsubsidized now and accumulate interest while one is in school, and the marginal interest rate difference between Staffords and GradPlus is only 1%--a significant difference, to be sure, but not massive.

Of course, the difference in principle is large. Not disputing that.

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francesfarmer
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:45 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
I would also think about it maybe with worst case scenario: you miss biglaw at both schools and you're in a $40-50K/year legal job in Fresno or Riverside county or some god-awful part of the state. How easy will it be to recover a hundred grand? Certainly not via your own salary. If your family is giving you what, $175K roughly? then how much more is there to come when you're older? Is there a massive inheritance waiting for you (in which case Berkeley is definitely TCR)? Or is that basically all of your extended families' resources being poured into your education (in which case I say UCLA)? there are other considerations at play here, and with CA's volatile market, both schools have some risk of missing out, and you want to know what kind of safety net you are truly giving up with that extra cash. Also of course, there are personally issues.. what your SO wants, ect. But with this much cash on the table, its provenance becomes an issue to consider. Others on this site may disagree but it would be important to me. I'm not saying you should disclose your entire situation here, you just have to think about it.

Only you know your family's financial situation. Your extended family has gifted you a massive sum of money--is this a one-time windfall or is your family generally well-off? You say your SO makes good money--does your financial future together look decently rosy? I am not an optimist by any means but if the answer to both of these questions is yes, I don't think spending $100k on law school and taking out another $50k will ruin you financially. Will you be able to buy a house as quickly? No. Will you forego ever buying a house? Probably not. Will you be out on your ass if you strike out? No.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:58 pm

It's clear you want to go to Berk, and you've got the means to do so, YOLO.

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Redamon1
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Re: berk vs ucla ($$$)

Postby Redamon1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:12 pm

LittleTree wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote: Yeah, I would try to get info on how UCLA students will full-rides perform grade-wise and at OCI.


I've been told that people in my situation tend to perform very well, but that's all I could muster from them.


Receiving $$ tells you nothing about how well you'll perform on the curve. Speaking from personal experience. You may do very well, but you may not. So don't bank on top grades is all I'm saying.




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