GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

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FacePalm
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GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby FacePalm » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:43 pm

tl;dr where are the 20% of school employees on LST's graph?

I was recently admitted to GW, and I am trying to make sense of the 20% of students employed by the school post graduation.
There are lots of articles condemning this practice at GW:
Above the law
Washington Examiner
and a random disgruntled blogger, to name a few.

I imagine (hope) that this has been discussed ad nauseum somewhere, but my searches have turned up nothing on TLS.

Basically, I'm looking at LST's graph and the numbers all add up to 99%ish. So, where are the 20% of students that are employed for $15/hr through the school in the Pathways to Practice Program??? My first thought was that they are mostly spread out in the gov/public interest. Then I looked at the same graph for Georgetown, and now I have no idea. They certainly do not fit in the business, short term or academic categories. My real concern is that they have found away to slide them into the 501+ club.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Given my current options, this would be my only statistically significant shot at "biglaw." So, it is a consideration once I see their financial aid package, depending on the answer to this question.

20141023
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Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby 20141023 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:25 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FacePalm
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Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby FacePalm » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:03 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
FacePalm wrote:tl;dr where are the 20% of school employees on LST's graph?

I was recently admitted to GW, and I am trying to make sense of the 20% of students employed by the school post graduation.
There are lots of articles condemning this practice at GW:
Above the law
Washington Examiner
and a random disgruntled blogger, to name a few.

I imagine (hope) that this has been discussed ad nauseum somewhere, but my searches have turned up nothing on TLS.

Basically, I'm looking at LST's graph and the numbers all add up to 99%ish. So, where are the 20% of students that are employed for $15/hr through the school in the Pathways to Practice Program??? My first thought was that they are mostly spread out in the gov/public interest. Then I looked at the same graph for Georgetown, and now I have no idea. They certainly do not fit in the business, short term or academic categories. My real concern is that they have found away to slide them into the 501+ club.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Given my current options, this would be my only statistically significant shot at "biglaw." So, it is a consideration once I see their financial aid package, depending on the answer to this question.

You're looking at the wrong graph. Hover your cursor over the red asterisk here. Basically, the data that is available via the ABA Employment Summary Report doesn't break down the school-employed graduates in that much detail; accordingly, LST cannot make a graph from data that they don't have. :wink:


If you want to look at the raw numbers that they use, it is here (aba format). 546 employed graduates out of 575 that graduated. The 128 school employed graduates are accounted for somewhere in the employment type data.

To put it another way:

128 students were employed by the school. (out of 546)
The graph of employment types (and raw numbers) account for those 128 students. (total of 546)
So, where are they? What categories have absorbed 128 students?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:44 pm

FacePalm wrote:128 students were employed by the school. (out of 546)

Jesus...

TheNextAmendment
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby TheNextAmendment » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:17 pm

FacePalm wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:
FacePalm wrote:tl;dr where are the 20% of school employees on LST's graph?

I was recently admitted to GW, and I am trying to make sense of the 20% of students employed by the school post graduation.
There are lots of articles condemning this practice at GW:
Above the law
Washington Examiner
and a random disgruntled blogger, to name a few.

I imagine (hope) that this has been discussed ad nauseum somewhere, but my searches have turned up nothing on TLS.

Basically, I'm looking at LST's graph and the numbers all add up to 99%ish. So, where are the 20% of students that are employed for $15/hr through the school in the Pathways to Practice Program??? My first thought was that they are mostly spread out in the gov/public interest. Then I looked at the same graph for Georgetown, and now I have no idea. They certainly do not fit in the business, short term or academic categories. My real concern is that they have found away to slide them into the 501+ club.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Given my current options, this would be my only statistically significant shot at "biglaw." So, it is a consideration once I see their financial aid package, depending on the answer to this question.

You're looking at the wrong graph. Hover your cursor over the red asterisk here. Basically, the data that is available via the ABA Employment Summary Report doesn't break down the school-employed graduates in that much detail; accordingly, LST cannot make a graph from data that they don't have. :wink:


If you want to look at the raw numbers that they use, it is here (aba format). 546 employed graduates out of 575 that graduated. The 128 school employed graduates are accounted for somewhere in the employment type data.

To put it another way:

128 students were employed by the school. (out of 546)
The graph of employment types (and raw numbers) account for those 128 students. (total of 546)
So, where are they? What categories have absorbed 128 students?


It's definitely an interesting point you raise because although they probably aren't in the biglaw100+ number (since biglaw firms usually don't want under-performers to do any of their work), they still could be because I guess technically a big firm wouldnt say no to a free worker. You raise a good point. Keep in mind though that c/o 2012 graduated 575 people and last year GW Law took 398 students. There is no way to account for how many people from c/o 2013 or 2014 will stay an extra year and graduate with c/o 2015, or how transfers GW will take...but 575-128 = 447. You get the point..it seems they are trying to eliminate their pathways-to-practice program.
Disclaimer- GW 0L.

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Robespierre
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Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby Robespierre » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:13 pm

OP, you're making a great point. Transparency hasn't reached the point where we know what kinds of jobs the school-employed people got.

I'd wager that 80% or more of them are in the public interest and government categories, because (a) those are the types of entities that are usually on the lookout for free help, and (b) those are the categories where GW's ABA form reports suspiciously high numbers.

But that's mere speculation.

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FacePalm
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Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby FacePalm » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:28 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
FacePalm wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:
FacePalm wrote:tl;dr where are the 20% of school employees on LST's graph?

I was recently admitted to GW, and I am trying to make sense of the 20% of students employed by the school post graduation.
There are lots of articles condemning this practice at GW:
Above the law
Washington Examiner
and a random disgruntled blogger, to name a few.

I imagine (hope) that this has been discussed ad nauseum somewhere, but my searches have turned up nothing on TLS.

Basically, I'm looking at LST's graph and the numbers all add up to 99%ish. So, where are the 20% of students that are employed for $15/hr through the school in the Pathways to Practice Program??? My first thought was that they are mostly spread out in the gov/public interest. Then I looked at the same graph for Georgetown, and now I have no idea. They certainly do not fit in the business, short term or academic categories. My real concern is that they have found away to slide them into the 501+ club.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Given my current options, this would be my only statistically significant shot at "biglaw." So, it is a consideration once I see their financial aid package, depending on the answer to this question.

You're looking at the wrong graph. Hover your cursor over the red asterisk here. Basically, the data that is available via the ABA Employment Summary Report doesn't break down the school-employed graduates in that much detail; accordingly, LST cannot make a graph from data that they don't have. :wink:


If you want to look at the raw numbers that they use, it is here (aba format). 546 employed graduates out of 575 that graduated. The 128 school employed graduates are accounted for somewhere in the employment type data.

To put it another way:

128 students were employed by the school. (out of 546)
The graph of employment types (and raw numbers) account for those 128 students. (total of 546)
So, where are they? What categories have absorbed 128 students?


It's definitely an interesting point you raise because although they probably aren't in the biglaw100+ number (since biglaw firms usually don't want under-performers to do any of their work), they still could be because I guess technically a big firm wouldnt say no to a free worker. You raise a good point. Keep in mind though that c/o 2012 graduated 575 people and last year GW Law took 398 students. There is no way to account for how many people from c/o 2013 or 2014 will stay an extra year and graduate with c/o 2015, or how transfers GW will take...but 575-128 = 447. You get the point..it seems they are trying to eliminate their pathways-to-practice program.
Disclaimer- GW 0L.


Could you expand on and/or link to "trying to eliminate their pathways-to-practice program"?

timbs4339
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:03 am

FacePalm wrote:Could you expand on and/or link to "trying to eliminate their pathways-to-practice program"?


http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/george-w ... e-funding/

TheNextAmendment
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: GW Law -20% Employed by school? Where are they in the stats?

Postby TheNextAmendment » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:12 am

FacePalm wrote:Could you expand on and/or link to "trying to eliminate their pathways-to-practice program"?


Mere speculation, except for that ATL link. Do the math. If they try and take 177 less people a year (relatively, as some will transfer in and some transfer out or drop out etc etc) and last year 128 were using the program...they are obviously trying to do something. I just hope that the new dean will stick with ex-Dean Berman's plan to make the class size smaller and more exclusive...




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