Intellectual Property

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cavtrpr
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Intellectual Property

Postby cavtrpr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:51 pm

I'm interested in IP law and did a quick internet search for the best IP programs and the list was very different from the general US News rankings. Here is the link:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... w-rankings

I'm going to be a splitter so from my research and at the guidance of others, I have a reasonable chance (with being an army officer) at NU, Cornell, Georgetown, and maybe UVA. Cornell has no concentration on IP, though, nor does Northwestern. I couldn't find any specific concentrations offered at Georgetown, and UVA definitely has one.

My questions is: should I pursue UVA or higher ranked IP schools thats ranked lower overall? Believe me, I would love Boalt, but they wouldn't love me.

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sundance95
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby sundance95 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:54 pm

Don't worry about specialty rankings--no one else does, especially hiring partners. Do worry about whether GI/Yellow Ribbon will negate all of your debt--you should be looking at public schools (i.e., Michigan or UVA, if you are certain that Boalt won't have you).

timbs4339
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:10 pm

Specialty rankings are massive flame.

Also, unless you have a STEM degree, don't go to a law school hoping to do IP work unless it gives you a good chance at biglaw overall.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:19 pm

FWIW, Northwestern might not have an IP concentration, but it does fine with intellectual property

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cavtrpr
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby cavtrpr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:22 pm

Thanks for the input both of you, much obliged.

Could you detail the comment you made about STEM degrees and IP in law school? I have a history degree, which type of law would you advise a history major to look toward?

timbs4339
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:19 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the input both of you, much obliged.

Could you detail the comment you made about STEM degrees and IP in law school? I have a history degree, which type of law would you advise a history major to look toward?


A history degree is not going to be a bar from doing any kind of law except for certain kinds of IP and international law. However, it's not going to be much of a plus. Your prospects will depend largely on where you go to school and what grades you get while there. What are you interested in?
Last edited by timbs4339 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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untar614
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby untar614 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:19 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the input both of you, much obliged.

Could you detail the comment you made about STEM degrees and IP in law school? I have a history degree, which type of law would you advise a history major to look toward?


Whatever kind you want that can be reasonably achieved out of the school you go to. History major doesn't really mean anything, other than you can't do patent pros.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:06 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Specialty rankings are massive flame.


This. Any rankings list that includes American in its top 10 should be disregarded in its entirety.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:43 pm

untar614 wrote:
cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the input both of you, much obliged.

Could you detail the comment you made about STEM degrees and IP in law school? I have a history degree, which type of law would you advise a history major to look toward?


Whatever kind you want that can be reasonably achieved out of the school you go to. History major doesn't really mean anything, other than you can't do patent pros.


It also means IP work will be a longshot in general. There's no reason for an IP firm to hire a history major when there are STEM majors flocking to law school in droves.

OP, what kind of IP work do you want to do?

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untar614
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby untar614 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:47 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
untar614 wrote:
cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the input both of you, much obliged.

Could you detail the comment you made about STEM degrees and IP in law school? I have a history degree, which type of law would you advise a history major to look toward?


Whatever kind you want that can be reasonably achieved out of the school you go to. History major doesn't really mean anything, other than you can't do patent pros.


It also means IP work will be a longshot in general. There's no reason for an IP firm to hire a history major when there are STEM majors flocking to law school in droves.

OP, what kind of IP work do you want to do?


Depends what you mean by IP; I got a cousin doing IP stuff with a bullsh!t undergrad degree, just not patent stuff. There's still copyright, trademark, etc. Probably not as big though.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby cavtrpr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:09 pm

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I don't have my heart set on any type of law so I am pretty open to a variety of things at this point. I only thought about IP because I love and appreciate innovation in computer technology. If its a long shot though, I'm not so set on it that I'd be willing to take the risk. Criminal law is very interesting to me though, partially because every one of my brothers, uncles, one grandfather, and my dad were all police officers. Is trying to go to a T14 school worth it for a criminal lawyer? Maybe for a private defense attorney but at first glance I would assume less so for a prosecutor, which I would lean more towards. It seems that people shooting for T14 are more into biglaw, which to be honest, I don't fully understand what exactly defines "biglaw." I understand it describes the size of the firm by number of lawyers, but does it typically describe a particular of field, or does it include a variety?

EDIT: I can articulate one goal that I have in absolute: I need to see a courtroom.

timbs4339
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:59 am

cavtrpr wrote:Okay, thanks for the explanation. I don't have my heart set on any type of law so I am pretty open to a variety of things at this point. I only thought about IP because I love and appreciate innovation in computer technology. If its a long shot though, I'm not so set on it that I'd be willing to take the risk. Criminal law is very interesting to me though, partially because every one of my brothers, uncles, one grandfather, and my dad were all police officers. Is trying to go to a T14 school worth it for a criminal lawyer? Maybe for a private defense attorney but at first glance I would assume less so for a prosecutor, which I would lean more towards. It seems that people shooting for T14 are more into biglaw, which to be honest, I don't fully understand what exactly defines "biglaw." I understand it describes the size of the firm by number of lawyers, but does it typically describe a particular of field, or does it include a variety?

EDIT: I can articulate one goal that I have in absolute: I need to see a courtroom.


Then you'd probably be interested in becoming a DA or Public Defender. There are very few jobs for entry-level private attorneys because you don't know anything out of law school- you have to go to an organization and get the training first. But you get into a courtroom extremely quickly (doing misdemeanors).

The best schools are going to be the T13, and then any school in the region where you want to practice that will give you a good scholarship.

Biglaw is just large firms who represent corporations on both the litigation and transactional side. If you join a biglaw litigation group, you're only likely to see a courtroom, if ever, doing pro bono work.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:43 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Okay, thanks for the explanation. I don't have my heart set on any type of law so I am pretty open to a variety of things at this point. I only thought about IP because I love and appreciate innovation in computer technology. If its a long shot though, I'm not so set on it that I'd be willing to take the risk. Criminal law is very interesting to me though, partially because every one of my brothers, uncles, one grandfather, and my dad were all police officers. Is trying to go to a T14 school worth it for a criminal lawyer? Maybe for a private defense attorney but at first glance I would assume less so for a prosecutor, which I would lean more towards. It seems that people shooting for T14 are more into biglaw, which to be honest, I don't fully understand what exactly defines "biglaw." I understand it describes the size of the firm by number of lawyers, but does it typically describe a particular of field, or does it include a variety?

EDIT: I can articulate one goal that I have in absolute: I need to see a courtroom.


In the past, I'd say a local regional with low debt is your best bet for a DA's/PD's office, but now I'm not sure. I have a friend who goes to a T20 school (3L) and has struggled to find paid work in criminal law. She's doing an unpaid internship this summer with the DA in her hometown (actually in a DNA lab, which is really cool), which she only procured via family ties -- plus the fact that its T20, if it was TTT there would be 0 chance. Hoping they offer a paid position at the end of the summer, but she's applied to dozens of other local PI/local gov offices in california and not heard much positive response yet. In that DA office now, the people with paid work (and by paid, I mean ~$55-60K/year) came from Berkeley, Columbia, Northwestern, and Harvard -- I met the CLS and NU ppl last week out for drinks at flemmings happy hour. Sure a few UCLA/USC kids are probably there too, but they must have ties AND well above median grades. My friend may just have to continue unpaid work after graduation if she wants to stay in this line of work in this region; fortunately no debt due to family resources, but still a frightening prospect. And the district prosecutors office is even more competitive/prestigious.

So I don't know if the SoCal DA's are more competitive or whatnot, but it seems like going to a T13 is increasingly recommended even for this kind of local gov work if you are aiming for a desirable area. In some counties/states, the local option probably still holds (and others can speak to that in their respective geographic area), but all the signs point to attending T13 if you want the most flexibility, even for criminal defense/prosecution.

As for "what defines big law", it's working for a large firm with 100+/500+ attorneys (depending on which statistics you reference -- I would go with the 500+ definition personally) that pays market salary, which medians around $160,000. The work is variable, and you can concentrate in one area, like securities or M&A, but I don't think you need to. IP/patent work is more specific, and some positions like patent prosecution would require you to be patent bar eligible, which unless you took a shitload of pre-med classes, you would not be with a history major. The biglaw jobs are largely obtained via OCI (on campus interviewing) or EIP at some schools, in the fall of 2L year; post-grad employment is overwhelmingly secured at the end of a 2L summer associate-ship. Netting these positions is highly correlated with your 1L grades, but some other factors could feature in, like interviewing skills, prior WE, ties, ect. At HYS, the assumption is you can get a biglaw job even if you graduate far below median. CLS posted I think a 93% offer rate at its on campus interviewing, which is pretty solid, and NYU is in the 80s%. The advantage of the T13 schools is that graduating at median gives you a very strong likelihood of securing a 2L SA with a large firm.

as an FYI, if being in the courtroom is your primary goal, many biglaw associates DONT make it inside the courtroom for the first few years, or if they do, its very limited (and apparently often embarassing) exposure.

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twenty
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Re: Intellectual Property

Postby twenty » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:32 pm

If you can go to a top school for free, buck it up and gun for biglaw. Yeah, only seeing a courtroom doing pro bono is probably not your ideal, but being forced into making 160k your first year with no student debt is the biggest first world problem I've ever heard. ;)




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