Top Law Schools

Thanks for your help, everyone!

Goals with JD? With your #s, HYS are fair game and UChi, NYU, and down for full rides are open. NU would be a very safe approach and should really only be thought of if all you want is Chi biglaw out of school.

sinfiery wrote:Goals with JD? With your #s, HYS are fair game and UChi, NYU, and down for full rides are open. NU would be a very safe approach and should really only be thought of if all you want is Chi biglaw out of school.

Hey, thanks for your reply. My post-LS goals are either PI or a clerkship (though I understand that the latter is pretty unlikely coming out of NU). I'm not too interested in Biglaw -- the 80hour/week lifestyle sounds awful.

There's no reason to limit yourself. Apply and consider your options against your goals. You have waaaay more than you need to ED Northwestern.

I wouldn't ed, with your goals and numbers you'll get tons of great offers, and should prob get the nu money anyway.

If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

Stinson wrote:There's no reason to limit yourself. Apply and consider your options against your goals. You have waaaay more than you need to ED Northwestern.

What do you think one needs to ED NU?

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

I'm not too optimistic about my chances at HS. I know I have virtually no shot at Y. The friend that I mentioned in the OP (173/3.9) was dinged from Y and WL/R from H and S, and I don't think my softs or writing ability are substantially better than hers.

Is it really that difficult to get a good PI/gov't job from Northwestern (leaving aside clerkships)?

Aasterinian wrote:

sinfiery wrote:Goals with JD? With your #s, HYS are fair game and UChi, NYU, and down for full rides are open. NU would be a very safe approach and should really only be thought of if all you want is Chi biglaw out of school.

Hey, thanks for your reply. My post-LS goals are either PI or a clerkship (though I understand that the latter is pretty unlikely coming out of NU). I'm not too interested in Biglaw -- the 80hour/week lifestyle sounds awful.

Yeah, you should definitely not ED anywhere and apply widely to the entire t14. NU is great for biglaw but seems to really be a step behind in the PI category.

With your numbers and softs, you will likely be deciding between a full ride/near full ride and Harvard. YS are possible too. Apply early. Goodluck!

Aasterinian wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

I'm not too optimistic about my chances at HS. I know I have virtually no shot at Y. The friend that I mentioned in the OP (173/3.9) was dinged from Y and WL/R from H and S, and I don't think my softs or writing ability are substantially better than hers.

Is it really that difficult to get a good PI/gov't job from Northwestern (leaving aside clerkships)?

It's not extremely difficult, but it is easier with HYS

And you definitely have a shot at HYS.

I got into all three of HYS with your exact numbers. Don't ED to Northwestern. Even if you're too debt averse for HYS, you'll likely be sitting on substantial money from higher-ranked schools.

I took the ED to NU with similar numbers, but Chicago biglaw was my goal. If you're not interested in that I wouldn't do it, and I really really like NU.

That said, see if you can't get reaaallly good money at, say, Chicago before you pay sticker above it. Even with the great outcomes of HYS, it's hard to overstate the awesome lack of pressure/stress that comes from not having six-figure debt over your head.

Aasterinian wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

I'm not too optimistic about my chances at HS. I know I have virtually no shot at Y. The friend that I mentioned in the OP (173/3.9) was dinged from Y and WL/R from H and S, and I don't think my softs or writing ability are substantially better than hers.

Is it really that difficult to get a good PI/gov't job from Northwestern (leaving aside clerkships)?

I know it sounds dumb, but a 174 and a 173 are substantially different for Harvard admissions since its right on the median. You definitely have a "shot" at Yale, although no one is ever guaranteed. Don't base your potential on your friends' lukewarm cycle (Where are they ending up, BTW?). Your goals would be served sufficiently better by these schools that it's worth applying to them and not shooting yourself in the foot with an early decision binding requirement.

NU is not known for its PI initiatives, and its clerkship numbers are not great. You would be much better served applying for RTK at NYU (full tuition scholarship) or even just getting $120K there (which is quite doable), or with a $100K+ scholarship from UChicago. You could hit a Butler at CLS. Full disclosure, Northwestern may not offer you a full ride RD just because they would expect you to flee to HYS anyway (they sent the $150K offers to kids who are right on their price point, ~3.8/172-173).

Apply to HYSCCN and NU if you really like the school, and I'd be surprised if you didn't hit nearly all of them.

The only reason you wouldn't get a full ride from NU through RD, would be YP. If you're serious about attending NU on a full ride just be sure to write a compelling 'Why NU'. If they think there's a real chance you'll attend there is no way they'd offer you anything less than 150k.

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

Depends on what type of PI. Your local LSC org isnt really going to care if you went to HYS instead of Northwestern.

dr123 wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

Depends on what type of PI. Your local LSC org isnt really going to care if you went to HYS instead of Northwestern.

I suppose that's true. I guess I'm think in terms of "big" PI

Presidentjlh wrote:

dr123 wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

Depends on what type of PI. Your local LSC org isnt really going to care if you went to HYS instead of Northwestern.

I suppose that's true. I guess I'm think in terms of "big" PI

?

OP never sad "big" PI.

dr123 wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:

dr123 wrote:

Presidentjlh wrote:If you want PI, you need to do HYS, which is quite attainable with your scores. They have an excellent LRAP program, so you wouldn't have to fear doing biglaw as much.

Depends on what type of PI. Your local LSC org isnt really going to care if you went to HYS instead of Northwestern.

I suppose that's true. I guess I'm think in terms of "big" PI

?

OP never sad "big" PI.

I know, just kinda auto-assume that. My bad.

I suppose either way you don't NEED to go HYS, but they are always a good bet.

Clearlynotstefan wrote:

Stinson wrote:There's no reason to limit yourself. Apply and consider your options against your goals. You have waaaay more than you need to ED Northwestern.

What do you think one needs to ED NU?

I mean if OP had lower numbers, then OP might need to use ED to sneak in below NU's medians by providing NU a guaranteed yield. OP has higher numbers than needed to get into NU regular decision.

Stinson wrote:

Clearlynotstefan wrote:

Stinson wrote:There's no reason to limit yourself. Apply and consider your options against your goals. You have waaaay more than you need to ED Northwestern.

What do you think one needs to ED NU?

I mean if OP had lower numbers, then OP might need to use ED to sneak in below NU's medians by providing NU a guaranteed yield. OP has higher numbers than needed to get into NU regular decision.

Well thanks guys, this gives me a lot to think about. I didn't think I had a viable chance at HYS before now.

tirakon wrote: I got into all three of HYS with your exact numbers. Don't ED to Northwestern. Even if you're too debt averse for HYS, you'll likely be sitting on substantial money from higher-ranked schools.

That's really impressive. Mind if I ask what your softs were like?

jbagelboy wrote: I know it sounds dumb, but a 174 and a 173 are substantially different for Harvard admissions since its right on the median. You definitely have a "shot" at Yale, although no one is ever guaranteed. Don't base your potential on your friends' lukewarm cycle (Where are they ending up, BTW?).

My friend ended up taking the $45k/year scholly to Chicago. She was accepted at CCN on down but weirdly Chicago gave her more money than any T14 other than NU (which offered her a full ride).

basilseal wrote: I took the ED to NU with similar numbers, but Chicago biglaw was my goal. If you're not interested in that I wouldn't do it, and I really really like NU.

Yeah, I've heard that the student culture at NU is fantastic -- really laid-back and friendly -- which is a big part of its appeal for me. This might be a little off-topic, but are you familiar at all with NU's legal scholars program? Does it seem to improve to students' chances at landing PI/gov't/clerkships jobs after they graduate?

Stinson wrote: I mean if OP had lower numbers, then OP might need to use ED to sneak in below NU's medians by providing NU a guaranteed yield. OP has higher numbers than needed to get into NU regular decision.

But remember that the NU ED comes with a guaranteed full ride -- $150k over the course of three years. Most of the ED acceptees on LSN this cycle have numbers that are at or above both of NU's medians.

What kind of PI work do you want to do and where do you want to do it? If you want to work in Chicago, NU at nearly any cost-advantage is the best choice for every career but academia, IMO.

Also, clerking is not a career, so I don't think that should really be part of the equation. Why do you want to clerk? It doesn't sound particularly relevant to your employment goals.

I'm afraid I can't speak to the scholars program, unfortunately.

Samara wrote:What kind of PI work do you want to do and where do you want to do it? If you want to work in Chicago, NU at nearly any cost-advantage is the best choice for every career but academia, IMO.

Also, clerking is not a career, so I don't think that should really be part of the equation. Why do you want to clerk? It doesn't sound particularly relevant to your employment goals.

Ideally I'd like to stay in the Midwest (Chicago, Denver, Minneapolis, etc), but I could be happy almost anywhere as long as the COL is reasonable.

I mentioned clerkships because I've heard that they can open great doors to government/PI jobs. But I also realize that my specific career goals are likely to change somewhat between now and 2L/3L, so you might be right. The one thing I know for sure is that I don't want a career where I'm required to work ultra-boring, 70+hr/weeks for months on end. I'm not categorically opposed to working in biglaw/midlaw, but I don't want to take on so much debt that I'm forced to stick it out at a firm even if I end up hating the work or the lifestyle.

Enjoy Harvard