US law school for living in Europe??

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partypajamas
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US law school for living in Europe??

Postby partypajamas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:55 am

I go to college in the US but I'd like to live in europe for a while. How useful is a JD overseas? do they want american business lawyers (T10 level)? What would a better plan of action be, work there for a while then get a European graduate degree?

thanks!

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jbagelboy
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:09 am

Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.

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Mick Haller
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:14 am

Law is a poor field for global career

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laotze
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby laotze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:43 am

partypajamas wrote:I go to college in the US but I'd like to live in europe for a while. How useful is a JD overseas? do they want american business lawyers (T10 level)? What would a better plan of action be, work there for a while then get a European graduate degree?

thanks!


Have you considered applying for the Foreign Service? It sounds more up your alley than law school, and could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars. http://careers.state.gov/officer/selection-process

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dr123
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby dr123 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:48 am

If you want to live in Europe for the sake of living in Europe, it would probably be a better idea to do that before going to law school.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:50 am

jbagelboy wrote:Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.


What is an "HYSC"

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:36 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.


What is an "HYSC"


I have seen this blatant Columbia trolling, and I have decided to allow it.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby beepboopbeep » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:42 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.


What is an "HYSC"


I have seen this blatant Columbia trolling, and I have decided to allow it.


Thank you, Justice Bateman.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:48 am

beepboopbeep wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.


What is an "HYSC"


I have seen this blatant Columbia trolling, and I have decided to allow it.


Thank you, Justice Bateman.


Subtle but important strike.

Image

partypajamas
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby partypajamas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:16 pm

What other options would be better upon graduating? trying to find an overseas job immediately? I know jd is the worst option for overseas probably, but what are my alts with a degree in IR? I dont have the econ /business courses to get a job in business after graduating

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dr123
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby dr123 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:18 pm

There are teaching fellowship programs and shit in european countries.

BigZuck
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:22 pm

partypajamas wrote:What other options would be better upon graduating? trying to find an overseas job immediately? I know jd is the worst option for overseas probably, but what are my alts with a degree in IR? I dont have the econ /business courses to get a job in business after graduating


Party your pajamas off in the US instead of Europe?

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Mick Haller
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:23 pm

Apply to euro masters degrees in Econ?

I almost took a job in international logistics/shipping. You can be an importer/exporter like Art Vandelay. Seriously though companies like Maersk and Expeditors have offices all over the world.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby beepboopbeep » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:35 pm

partypajamas wrote:What other options would be better upon graduating? trying to find an overseas job immediately? I know jd is the worst option for overseas probably, but what are my alts with a degree in IR? I dont have the econ /business courses to get a job in business after graduating


Teaching English. Woofing. Do you have any non-English fluency?

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jbagelboy
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:21 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Apply to euro masters degrees in Econ?

I almost took a job in international logistics/shipping. You can be an importer/exporter like Art Vandelay. Seriously though companies like Maersk and Expeditors have offices all over the world.


this is a good idea.

I've worked as a consultant with lots of logistics companies in europe on some major projects, there's definitively a need for fluent english speaking smart kids who have freedom to travel a lot and want to live in europe for some time. You have to be at least somewhat quantitatively adept, but the requisite skills to actually do the job are not mathematically rigorous. this work actually exists tho

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jbagelboy
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:33 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Attend HYSC, dual degree program with Oxbridge, get top grades, and network London firms ("magic circle").

Alternatively, learn French or German very well, go to a top school, get top grades with an international focus, get a biglaw job in a european transactional division or M&A that helps european firms break into american markets or buy out american companies and vise versa. Its very far from a sure thing tho.


What is an "HYSC"


I have seen this blatant Columbia trolling, and I have decided to allow it.


CLS has a program with Oxford that nets a few gigs at allen/slaughter type shops every year. Of course, these jobs are mostly obtained via transfer to a New York branch after working at a US firm for a few years, and then lateraling to the London/Paris/Frankfurt offices ect.

I'm sure Cornell and NYU have similar stuff and I'm not trying to troll. I'll rephrase as "go to a T13 with a well regarded and regularly utilized dual degree program with UCL/Oxford/Cambridge and get straight A's/law review"

Basically, as everyone else has been saying, if your true desire is to live internationally, don't become an attorney right now because your chances of practicing law in another country are slim to none

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cinephile
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby cinephile » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:40 pm

Be a nanny, get a 400 euro a semester masters, get married to a European.

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CorpusChristi
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby CorpusChristi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:30 pm

partypajamas wrote:I go to college in the US but I'd like to live in europe for a while. How useful is a JD overseas? do they want american business lawyers (T10 level)? What would a better plan of action be, work there for a while then get a European graduate degree?

thanks!


I've just graduated from a top law school in the UK ( ranked in the top5 law schools in the world ) and I'm going to apply to read J.D. in the USA the following cycle.

As a person that has done tons of reasearch regarding a similar, yet reversed scenario ( however, I know people in your shoes that had vacation schemes with me in the London-based top10 law firms in the world ), I can tell you one thing: balance the probabilities.

To practice as a lawyer in Europe, you need a constitutional legal system law programme. If you want to work in the common law-system-based England, the law firms will still seek for the UK LLB graduates - the same thing regarding European LLB holders in the USA, who go for the US LLM. It's a fact that those foreign lawyers lose out in their struggle for the US jobs with the US J.D. holders, in spite of the LLM they may have gained in the USA.

If you want to live and practice in Europe, just do a law degree in the country you'd love to practice and live in. In Europe itself, a person, let's say from Germany, would have to have their diploma validated in the country of destination ( let's say France ), in spite of the European Union regulation commenting on the equal opportunities of the same course graduates from different states within the EU.

After the LLB in the UK, I am applying to read a J.D. in the USA in 2014 so I have a feasible shot at the US big law firms. You should considering doing the same with the European law programmes.

The option that someone has mentioned above, i.e. working for a large, international company or a law firm that has its offices spread around the world ( including Europe ), as an alternative, is obviously a valid point - however, a less likely an occurence than people actually think. First, you'd have to work for some years in the USA in order to have a chance of a transfer to Europe. This is true that law firms do have secondments in different countries around the globe, but these are only temporary and in order to become permanent - require many years spent at the local office.

Hope I could help.

Best regards

timbs4339
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:43 pm

They want JD lawyers...in America. Even working for a US office of a Magic Circle firm isn't going to get you to Europe except for training and occasional trips.

Even fluency is unlikely to get you there. The best thing would be to get a decent paying job and travel to Europe. Law school isn't a backdoor to being a well-paid expat.

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RedGiant
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby RedGiant » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 pm

I worked in the London office of a V5 firm as a paralegal after working in the NY office. I also started my career in M&A in investment banking at the London office of a US bulge bracket bank. My advice is dated in that this was ~10 years ago, but I know hiring of US folks in the UK has not gotten that much better--it's gotten worse as visa requirements have tightened and the banking landscape has changed (see TheLondonLink.co.uk for more info on worker visas and the process).

It is most common for US-trained corporate lawyers to practice US law in European money center offices (London, Zurich, Paris). That is to say, they would be advising multinationals on US law matters. This is a super-specific niche, and is often securities/capital markets or M&A focused. Nearly all Americans that get these jobs practice in NY for a few years and then head over to the London branch of their firm's office after they are at least 3rd or 4th years, often as midlevels (5-7th) or senior associates. That is to say, firms want to know that you know what you are doing before they spend the money to send you over. I am sure there are lateral opps if you know the right headhunters, but hiring would be incredibly narrow. If you're not talking about biglaw, there are definitely US multinationals that have offices in Europe--banks, global giants, etc., and that work might be more regulatory-based. There's also a fair bit of antitrust/competition/FCPA work out of Brussels, some of which would dovetail with US law.

It would be _incredibly_ rare to near impossible for a Magic Circle firm to hire a US trained lawyer who did not also have some European law background (like UK undergrad law degree or similar). Also note that UK Magic Circle trainee salaries would not service typical US law school debt (at sticker). I would suggest you look at rollonfriday.co.uk (sort of like the UK version of abovethelaw and a recruiting site) to find out more about being a local law hire in the UK. You could get a UK law degree as a post-bacc (such as from the College of Law), but it'd expensive (hard to get loans to finance studying abroad) and you would still have Visa issues in terms of getting a trainee contract with a UK firm. It would be very risky.

As someone else on here said, law is not the most portable or easiest way to get a job in Europe. +1000 to that.
Last edited by RedGiant on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:10 pm

timbs4339 wrote:They want JD lawyers...in America. Even working for a US office of a Magic Circle firm isn't going to get you to Europe except for training and occasional trips.

Even fluency is unlikely to get you there. The best thing would be to get a decent paying job and travel to Europe. Law school isn't a backdoor to being a well-paid expat.


I don't know how accurate that is. I know a few people at UT summering at the London offices of V5 firms. If a few UT students can get London, I'd have to imagine HYS students could get there in larger numbers if they wanted it.

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CorpusChristi
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby CorpusChristi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:22 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:They want JD lawyers...in America. Even working for a US office of a Magic Circle firm isn't going to get you to Europe except for training and occasional trips.

Even fluency is unlikely to get you there. The best thing would be to get a decent paying job and travel to Europe. Law school isn't a backdoor to being a well-paid expat.


I don't know how accurate that is. I know a few people at UT summering at the London offices of V5 firms. If a few UT students can get London, I'd have to imagine HYS students could get there in larger numbers if they wanted it.


Magic circle law firms will never choose a HYS student over tons of UoL/Oxbridge trainees or other sort of LLB holders from the other unis in the UK. Plus, you will not be able to commence your practice as a barrister or solicitor unless you have passed the required UK law modules.

Best regards

PS I'm talking about a legal job here, not some sort of banking or audit career.

timbs4339
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:22 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:They want JD lawyers...in America. Even working for a US office of a Magic Circle firm isn't going to get you to Europe except for training and occasional trips.

Even fluency is unlikely to get you there. The best thing would be to get a decent paying job and travel to Europe. Law school isn't a backdoor to being a well-paid expat.


I don't know how accurate that is. I know a few people at UT summering at the London offices of V5 firms. If a few UT students can get London, I'd have to imagine HYS students could get there in larger numbers if they wanted it.


Summering =/= living and practicing. I knew several students who summered abroad or did rotations abroad who were based in the US.

partypajamas
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby partypajamas » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:16 am

what are better careers that would let me live in europe? i dont want UK, i want scandinavia/germany!

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KD35
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Re: US law school for living in Europe??

Postby KD35 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 am

partypajamas wrote:what are better careers that would let me live in europe? i dont want UK, i want scandinavia/germany!

Well speaking the language is a good first step for a job. You can always try to work for non-profits. If you want to "live in Europe," banking is always a good way to get in. In Eastern Europe/not the big boys in Western Europe, stuff focusing on supply chain logistics and the likes is big as these countries continue to develop.

But you need to speak the language. And non-profits/IGOs are always great for living abroad.




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