Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

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Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Duke
24
55%
NYU
20
45%
 
Total votes: 44

wildcat69410
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Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby wildcat69410 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:27 am

Hello all. I took TLS's advice last time around, selecting Duke over my other options. NYU contacted me last week, offering me a spot off their wait list. Here's an overview of the particulars:

Duke is offering me 15 a year, NYU wants sticker
Career goals include a federal clerkship and/or biglaw in NYC/DC, with an eventual desire to parachute back down to Nashville (I'm a native and a Vandy undergrad)
GPA/LSAT are both irrelevant - a retake and a reapply are not in the cards for me
Parents will be funding this venture *but* have made it clear that the added difference between NYU and Duke's price will be covered (at least in part) by me, meaning some student loans

Candidly, I was more impressed with Duke's visit (although NYC is by far a more dynamic city). My question is: given my career goals, is NYU worth the added cost?

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laotze
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby laotze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:38 am

wildcat69410 wrote:Hello all. I took TLS's advice last time around, selecting Duke over my other options. NYU contacted me last week, offering me a spot off their wait list. Here's an overview of the particulars:

Duke is offering me 15 a year, NYU wants sticker
Career goals include a federal clerkship and/or biglaw in NYC/DC, with an eventual desire to parachute back down to Nashville (I'm a native and a Vandy undergrad)
GPA/LSAT are both irrelevant - a retake and a reapply are not in the cards for me
Parents will be funding this venture *but* have made it clear that the added difference between NYU and Duke's price will be covered (at least in part) by me, meaning some student loans

Candidly, I was more impressed with Duke's visit (although NYC is by far a more dynamic city). My question is: given my career goals, is NYU worth the added cost?


Duke places 51% in biglaw and 13% in federal clerkships. (http://abovethelaw.com/schools/duke-law/?show=employment)
NYU places 60% in biglaw and 6% in federal clerkships. (http://abovethelaw.com/schools/duke-law/?show=employment)

NYU is roughly $30-35k more expensive at sticker according to ATL, so you're looking at, what, $45-50k cheaper at Duke? If you're really as on the fence as you sound, I would hazard to say Duke is the better decision overall, but if you're set on working in NYC then probably NYU.

Personally I would go NYU on account of NYC being an infinitely better place to spend three years than Durham, but it sounds like you're comfortable in smalltown NC, so that's hardly relevant.

kaiser
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby kaiser » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:40 am

I would say NYU is definitely worth 45K extra if you want NYC biglaw. Its pretty easy to get a NYC firm job. I know a bunch of kids at median or below who ended up with big firm jobs in NY. Being in NYC, you are able to network consistently, be in close proximity to thousands of alums, etc. This is invaluable come recruiting time, and it such a benefit of being in NYC itself.

If your parents are footing the bill, its not the difference between 200K and 245K or something like that. Instead, its the difference between 0 and 45K. Sure, same absolute difference, but in the former situation, you are already on the brink, and only pushing yourself further. In the latter, however, you will be in an incredibly manageable situation, with debt that could be paid off in a very short period of time. On a NY big firm salary, that debt would be off the table quick. I think its worth it for the extensive safety net you get at NYU, since NYC firms just dip so deep into the class.

And keep in mind that NYU isnt all that much more expensive if you take steps to minimize your expenses. I never paid more than $800 in rent, live pretty frugally, etc. and never came close to the expected cost of attendance.

Ti Malice
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby Ti Malice » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:08 am

laotze wrote:
wildcat69410 wrote:Hello all. I took TLS's advice last time around, selecting Duke over my other options. NYU contacted me last week, offering me a spot off their wait list. Here's an overview of the particulars:

Duke is offering me 15 a year, NYU wants sticker
Career goals include a federal clerkship and/or biglaw in NYC/DC, with an eventual desire to parachute back down to Nashville (I'm a native and a Vandy undergrad)
GPA/LSAT are both irrelevant - a retake and a reapply are not in the cards for me
Parents will be funding this venture *but* have made it clear that the added difference between NYU and Duke's price will be covered (at least in part) by me, meaning some student loans

Candidly, I was more impressed with Duke's visit (although NYC is by far a more dynamic city). My question is: given my career goals, is NYU worth the added cost?


Duke places 51% in biglaw and 13% in federal clerkships. (http://abovethelaw.com/schools/duke-law/?show=employment)
NYU places 60% in biglaw and 6% in federal clerkships. (http://abovethelaw.com/schools/duke-law/?show=employment)

NYU is roughly $30-35k more expensive at sticker according to ATL, so you're looking at, what, $45-50k cheaper at Duke? If you're really as on the fence as you sound, I would hazard to say Duke is the better decision overall, but if you're set on working in NYC then probably NYU.

Personally I would go NYU on account of NYC being an infinitely better place to spend three years than Durham, but it sounds like you're comfortable in smalltown NC, so that's hardly relevant.


While there's no way to measure the percentage, given that the "public interest" category applies equally to ACLU positions and work at small-town legal aid, NYU has a strong PI culture relative to Duke, and it's a safe bet that a greater proportion of NYU's class ends up in prestigious PI/gov't jobs. Accordingly, the spread in placement power is very likely a few points wider than the traditional BigLaw+FedClerk measurement indicates.

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sinfiery
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:20 am

And if you have any desire to work at a prefrigorous NYC firm, NYU trumps Duke.

Does this difference reap any actual rewards for your career? No idea


If you don't care about the above, I would say that if NYCs COL is worth the difference of living in NYC, go to NYU. Otherwise, I guess Duke.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:48 am

With COL and interest included, NYU will run you an extra ~$70k above Duke. If you're unnecessarily concerned with dat V10 prefstige, and you are dead set on working in NYC, that might be worth it. Personally, I don't think it's worth that much more, especially since you seem to have an interest in sticking around the south. If it were me, I'd save that extra cash and spend it on one of these after graduation. But since your parents are taking care of the bulk of your costs, this is a defensible decision either way.

BigZuck
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:54 am

You need to do this. All of it:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206299

We especially need to know what type of splitter you are. If you're a reverse splitter then you need to retake and ride that gravy train all the way to HYS. Don't be one of those lazy K-JDs that don't maximize their potential.

Edit: typing fail
Last edited by BigZuck on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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UVAIce
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby UVAIce » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:00 am

A majority of the human beings I know have no idea what a Wachtell, Cravath, or a Skadden is.

fdo15
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby fdo15 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:51 am

I made a Duke v. NYU decision a few days ago. Definitely a tough one. Have you asked Duke for more money?

The money was a little different in my scenario, but if the cost difference was as close as it is for you I might have gone the other way.

Also, if you want to end up in Nashville ultimately, I don't think NYU will look any better down there than Duke will. That being said, if you want to start your career in NYC, NYU might be the right call.

fallingup
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby fallingup » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:26 pm

You should ask Duke to give you more money. Most people making this decision got a lot more than you did.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:39 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:With COL and interest included, NYU will run you an extra ~$70k above Duke. If you're unnecessarily concerned with dat V10 prefstige, and you are dead set on working in NYC, that might be worth it. Personally, I don't think it's worth that much more, especially since you seem to have an interest in sticking around the south. If it were me, I'd save that extra cash and spend it on one of these after graduation. But since your parents are taking care of the bulk of your costs, this is a defensible decision either way.


honestly, fuck the new e-class man. that's like the patently obvious "I have exorbitant expendable income but no class". I'd rather have like a '98 E420 and at least be legit.

at equal cost I'd go M3 (used if necessary) or audi S5. that car drives like a dream

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laotze
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby laotze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:02 pm

jbagelboy wrote:honestly, fuck the new e-class man. that's like the patently obvious "I have exorbitant expendable income but no class".


A lot of people would argue that's true of Mercedes-Benz mobiles in general.

/BlatantProAudiTrolling

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jbagelboy
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:04 pm

laotze wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:honestly, fuck the new e-class man. that's like the patently obvious "I have exorbitant expendable income but no class".


A lot of people would argue that's true of Mercedes-Benz mobiles in general.

/BlatantProAudiTrolling


I'm down, dude. Audi is where its at.

mr.hands
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:11 pm

Eh you want a federal clerkship, solid shot at biglaw, eventually a career back in the South, and savings of roughly 70k? Go to Duke.

NYU is a great school but 70k is a lot of money (a lot more than people realize).

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laotze
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby laotze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:39 pm

mr.hands wrote:NYU is a great school but 70k is a lot of money (a lot more than people realize).


Almost twice the median US undergraduate debt load, in fact. That's already a terrifying amount of money to owe on anything less than biglaw salary, to say nothing of the remaining $200k or so at sticker...

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Tekrul
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby Tekrul » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:01 am

jbagelboy wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:With COL and interest included, NYU will run you an extra ~$70k above Duke. If you're unnecessarily concerned with dat V10 prefstige, and you are dead set on working in NYC, that might be worth it. Personally, I don't think it's worth that much more, especially since you seem to have an interest in sticking around the south. If it were me, I'd save that extra cash and spend it on one of these after graduation. But since your parents are taking care of the bulk of your costs, this is a defensible decision either way.


honestly, fuck the new e-class man. that's like the patently obvious "I have exorbitant expendable income but no class". I'd rather have like a '98 E420 and at least be legit.

at equal cost I'd go M3 (used if necessary) or audi S5. that car drives like a dream


R34 for sticker, over M3 at 15k/yr, IMO and I'd take an A8 at equal cost. M5 at 15k/yr and it comes down to ties.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:42 pm

Tekrul wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:With COL and interest included, NYU will run you an extra ~$70k above Duke. If you're unnecessarily concerned with dat V10 prefstige, and you are dead set on working in NYC, that might be worth it. Personally, I don't think it's worth that much more, especially since you seem to have an interest in sticking around the south. If it were me, I'd save that extra cash and spend it on one of these after graduation. But since your parents are taking care of the bulk of your costs, this is a defensible decision either way.


honestly, fuck the new e-class man. that's like the patently obvious "I have exorbitant expendable income but no class". I'd rather have like a '98 E420 and at least be legit.

at equal cost I'd go M3 (used if necessary) or audi S5. that car drives like a dream


R34 for sticker, over M3 at 15k/yr, IMO and I'd take an A8 at equal cost. M5 at 15k/yr and it comes down to ties.


really? GTR over M3? for the engine, maybe, but not the aesthetic.

this is making me cringe about ditching my car for NYC

wildcat69410
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby wildcat69410 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:48 pm

Update:

Duke raised their scholarship offer to $20,000 per year. I'm appealing NYU's sticker offer, but assuming that they don't change their position, it's made this a very difficult decision. I like the allure of New York very much, and would enjoy the challenge it would provide. But turning down a scholarship of this size to assume modest student debt isn't fun...

Any further thoughts?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:04 pm

Voted NYU. I think the placement power difference is significant when you take it all into account. This was an absurdly weak year for clerkships due to some snafus, and I'd expect clerkship placement to be in the 10% range going forward. When all is said and done something like 80% of people who want firm jobs get them (summer associate jobs from OCI) from NYU. I would hazard that is significantly more than Duke, though I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, though, I don't think you will go wrong either way. If your folks will cover 100% of Duke then that is certainly tempting.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:30 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Voted NYU. I think the placement power difference is significant when you take it all into account. This was an absurdly weak year for clerkships due to some snafus, and I'd expect clerkship placement to be in the 10% range going forward. When all is said and done something like 80% of people who want firm jobs get them (summer associate jobs from OCI) from NYU. I would hazard that is significantly more than Duke, though I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, though, I don't think you will go wrong either way. If your folks will cover 100% of Duke then that is certainly tempting.


in b4 rickgrimes

ETA: nvm he already said either was defensible. my b

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:24 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Voted NYU. I think the placement power difference is significant when you take it all into account. This was an absurdly weak year for clerkships due to some snafus, and I'd expect clerkship placement to be in the 10% range going forward. When all is said and done something like 80% of people who want firm jobs get them (summer associate jobs from OCI) from NYU. I would hazard that is significantly more than Duke, though I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, though, I don't think you will go wrong either way. If your folks will cover 100% of Duke then that is certainly tempting.


in b4 rickgrimes

ETA: nvm he already said either was defensible. my b

:lol:

Honestly I think the constantly regurgitated notion that NYU places better in V10 but no better for all other biglaw is asinine. In NYC it places extremely well all the way down the pecking order.

kaiser
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:58 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Voted NYU. I think the placement power difference is significant when you take it all into account. This was an absurdly weak year for clerkships due to some snafus, and I'd expect clerkship placement to be in the 10% range going forward. When all is said and done something like 80% of people who want firm jobs get them (summer associate jobs from OCI) from NYU. I would hazard that is significantly more than Duke, though I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, though, I don't think you will go wrong either way. If your folks will cover 100% of Duke then that is certainly tempting.


in b4 rickgrimes

ETA: nvm he already said either was defensible. my b

:lol:

Honestly I think the constantly regurgitated notion that NYU places better in V10 but no better for all other biglaw is asinine. In NYC it places extremely well all the way down the pecking order.


Of course it does. If NYC biglaw is your goal, you are of course much better off at NYU than something like Duke, UVA, etc. Do those schools place a fair number in NY? Sure. But you would be fooling yourself to think that the chances are equal. NYU buys a fairly substantial safety net in NY.

That being said, I wonder why OP even wants NYC to begin with. If he had said he wants to go right from school to Tennessee to practice, I would have said Duke in a heartbeat.

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sinfiery
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:14 pm

wildcat69410 wrote:Update:

Duke raised their scholarship offer to $20,000 per year. I'm appealing NYU's sticker offer, but assuming that they don't change their position, it's made this a very difficult decision. I like the allure of New York very much, and would enjoy the challenge it would provide. But turning down a scholarship of this size to assume modest student debt isn't fun...

Any further thoughts?


I took NYU over 45k extra at UVA in large part to having an affinity for living in NYC.

But 290k is a ton of debt but I think this falls into the category of, "you better get biglaw or you'll be on PAYE" so NYU is defensible, even from a debt point of view

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Lavitz
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby Lavitz » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:45 pm

sinfiery wrote:But 290k is a ton of debt but I think this falls into the category of, "you better get biglaw or you'll be on PAYE" so NYU is defensible, even from a debt point of view

OP isn't going into 290K of debt.
wildcat69410 wrote:Parents will be funding this venture *but* have made it clear that the added difference between NYU and Duke's price will be covered (at least in part) by me, meaning some student loans

It sounds like OP would only have to take out something like 60K?

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sinfiery
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Re: Duke ($) vs NYU (Sticker)

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:49 pm

Oh, hah. My bad.

Depends on what your parents money is worth to you, I guess. I would take on 60k to live in NYC for 3 years as a student at this age given that was my only debt and I would have the job prospects of NYU to pay it off. I think both sides are defensible.




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