Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

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Danny Boyo
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Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Danny Boyo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:28 pm

Hi all,

The title says it all.
Taking everything into account (in-state tuition, cost of living, scholly etc.), I budgeted UVA at USD 38,372.00 more than Northwestern. I wish to work for BigLaw in order to repay my loans as quickly as possible since the bulk of my COA will be sticker (although I do not rule out public interest due to the sweet PSLF program). Both rank well for BigLaw employment, which made me wonder if UVA is worth paying 38,372.00 more than NU.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

09042014
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:31 pm

Unless you are looking for the South or DC, it's not worth a penny more.

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sinfiery
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Unless you are looking for the South or DC, it's not worth a penny more.

Ti Malice
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:35 pm

In my opinion, no (though it would be helpful to know where you want to work). But I would go to NU over UVA at equal cost. Average BigLaw+FedClerk placement for the last two years is higher for NU than for UVA.
Last edited by Ti Malice on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Danny Boyo
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Danny Boyo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:36 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Unless you are looking for the South or DC, it's not worth a penny more.


DC is somewhere I'm interested, got family in the area. But I'm not ball-and-chain attached to it.

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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:36 pm

Danny Boyo wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Unless you are looking for the South or DC, it's not worth a penny more.


DC is somewhere I'm interested, got family in the area. But I'm not ball-and-chain attached to it.


Where do you wanna end up.

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Danny Boyo
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Danny Boyo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Ti Malice wrote:In my opinion, no (though it would be helpful to know where you want to work). But I would go to NU over UVA at equal cost. Average BigLaw+FedClerk placement for the last two years is higher for NU than for UVA.


I'm keeping my mind open as to where I wanna work. NY, Chicago, SF, LA, Boston or DC all catch my eye. I'm very debt adverse and so I would exchange better employment prospects over an exact location.
I do have a slight sweet spot for DC for personal reasons (got family in NoVa), but I'm in no means ball-and-chain attached to it.
Last edited by Danny Boyo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Danny Boyo
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Danny Boyo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Danny Boyo wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Unless you are looking for the South or DC, it's not worth a penny more.


DC is somewhere I'm interested, got family in the area. But I'm not ball-and-chain attached to it.


Where do you wanna end up.


Everything else being virtually equal, I would go to DC. But if I have better opportunities ($$ and more interesting work) in Chicago or NY for example, I would go there instead.

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Winston1984
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:53 pm

Ti Malice wrote:In my opinion, no (though it would be helpful to know where you want to work). But I would go to NU over UVA at equal cost. Average BigLaw+FedClerk placement for the last two years is higher for NU than for UVA.


No it isn't.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=uva
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

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Cobretti
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Cobretti » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:07 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:In my opinion, no (though it would be helpful to know where you want to work). But I would go to NU over UVA at equal cost. Average BigLaw+FedClerk placement for the last two years is higher for NU than for UVA.


No it isn't.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=uva
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

I think he was referring to 500+ firms

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=uva&show=chars&sub=employers
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern&show=chars&sub=employers

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:10 pm

UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

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IAFG
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby IAFG » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:13 pm

jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."

BigZuck
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:15 pm

A thread about UVA?

I predict this will not end in butthurt

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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:17 pm

IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."


TLS 2008 Enjoy DLA Piper

TLS 2013 - Seriously, you are going to enjoy your stipend for interning at a judges office for 9 months and 1 day until you can check a box saying you have a job.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:23 pm

IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."


they employ them in JD req positions. at least on paper, that's better than unemployment or working retail. ITE gaps in resume of 6+ months fuck you over

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sinfiery
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:23 pm

Most UVA grads on that school funded time end up with a job they can label as "lawyer" (30+/35) after said gig which allows you to assume the lawyers average salary of 100k+
Whereas no data for the NU bottom percentiles


But 30k > this if.you just kinda like DC and nothing more

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."


TLS 2008 Enjoy DLA Piper

TLS 2013 - Seriously, you are going to enjoy your stipend for interning at a judges office for 9 months and 1 day until you can check a box saying you have a job.


for the record, I would go to NU over UVA at equal cost -- in fact I didn't even apply to UVA due to lack of interest -- but I would rather have a stipend and something to put on my resume than live in my parents house and teach LSAT classes

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IAFG
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby IAFG » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:27 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."


they employ them in JD req positions. at least on paper, that's better than unemployment or working retail. ITE gaps in resume of 6+ months fuck you over

I doubt that UVA grads who are unemployed at grad do better than MPBDCN grads in the same position, but I don't have any data on that.

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Cobretti
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Cobretti » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:30 pm

jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

What ever happened to biglaw or DEATH? When did TLS become so soft that we started worrying about finishing below median?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:31 pm

UVA is worth $38,372 more than NU, but absolutely not $38,373 more.

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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:31 pm

Cobretti wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

What ever happened to biglaw or DEATH? When did TLS become so soft that we started worrying about finishing below median?


TLS 2008 - Median at TULANE gets you NYC Big Law

TLS 2013 - UVA below median doesn't deserve it!

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Cobretti
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby Cobretti » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Cobretti wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

What ever happened to biglaw or DEATH? When did TLS become so soft that we started worrying about finishing below median?


TLS 2008 - Median at TULANE gets you NYC Big Law

TLS 2013 - UVA below median doesn't deserve it!

TLS 2008 - weak

TLS 2013 - carved out of wood

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:42 pm

IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

That's a really funny definition of "job security."


they employ them in JD req positions. at least on paper, that's better than unemployment or working retail. ITE gaps in resume of 6+ months fuck you over

I doubt that UVA grads who are unemployed at grad do better than MPBDCN grads in the same position, but I don't have any data on that.


Not trying to be difficult here, but isn't that one of the few things LST underemployment data DOES tell us? ten times more of NU's graduating class will not find legal work after graduation. The data is right there. If you are referring to several years down the road, then sure we have no clear picture of that, but in the more immediate perspective, I'm curious how you are reading the employment scores and reaching that conclusion. Again, I am open to corrections, but I don't understand your comment.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:44 pm

Cobretti wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA doesn't place "better" for biglaw, but it does provide more job security for the bottom 20% of the class. At NU, median and above has a great outcome, below median struggles a little more. At UVA, they will help their grads tread water for longer. So the question to me would be, is that bottom fifth/bottom fourth of the class security worthwhile? If you assume graduating at median, then no IMO.

What ever happened to biglaw or DEATH? When did TLS become so soft that we started worrying about finishing below median?


Just trying to add another perspective. I've bolded what is most important. I focus on median results; doesn't mean the bottom of the class doesn't exist

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RedGiant
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Re: Is UVA worth 38,372.00 more than Northwestern for BigLaw

Postby RedGiant » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:45 pm

TCR for this question is NO, unless you really like Chicago a lot more than Charlottesville.

The only reasons that I'd say YES are (i) it might be more convenient, if you really want Chicago biglaw, to go to NU (not having to move in the summer or pay double for housing) and (ii) internships would be more available in a city than Charlottesville, if you wanted to work during the school year 2L/3L to offset the debt.

I have worked in biglaw in NY and CA, and anecdotally, more NU in CA than UVA, a good mix of both in NY, but I think the more NU in CA is due to self-selection, not because the firms I've work at (or across from on deals) don't recruit at UVA. They do. Both schools will be looked upon very favorably in recruiting.

I urge you to attend where you think you'll excel and where you'll sleep better at night. Best of luck.




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