Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Loyola New Orleans or Cal Western?

Loyola New Orleans
6
60%
Cal Western
4
40%
 
Total votes: 10

lolahomer
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Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby lolahomer » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Loyola New Orleans College of Law
-COA = $117,906 (w/o interest)
-$25,000 Deans Scholarship
-$250 seat deposit
-Financing COA on loans

California Western School of Law
-COA = $139,392 (w/o interest)
-$22,350 tuition discount
-$450 seat deposit
-Financing COA on loans
-may be less $$ as I have the option of living with my Mom during school

-From San Diego
-I want to work in criminal law, ideally for the District Attorney or County Counsel
-154/3.39 (UCLA)
-Non traditional student
-Taken twice w/same score

I know both of these are T3 and from looking at law school transparency their numbers are pretty close.

Any advice would be appreciated...I'm really pretty tempted by Loyola in terms of being able to live in New Orleans and experience living somewhere different, but my concern is that Louisiana law is based on civil law and everywhere else in the US uses common law. I don't really have any ties to Louisiana, I just find the idea of going and living there to be interesting.

Cal Western is pretty close to my house and I've worked around there; I know several successful graduates from Cal West but they all graduated in the 70s-90s (for the most part). I am worried about the curve as I've talked to Cal Western students who have lost their scholarships and were then paying full sticker for the remaining two years. They all said that the grading curve was harsh and that it is very difficult to maintain a scholarship.

californiauser
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby californiauser » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:46 pm

lolahomer wrote:I know both of these are T3 and from looking at law school transparency their numbers are pretty close.


Can you explain to us why you think going 100k+ in debt for a less than 50% chance of becoming a lawyer is a good idea? I don't understand your reasoning here.

bruin91
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby bruin91 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:50 pm

OP, please study for a retake. These options are pretty bad and I really don't want you to fall in debt at either school without promising employment to pay it back. Gun to my head, Cal Western--at least it's local and you can use your ties in SD for a small firm job making 50-65k/year (you'll still need to graduate high in your class). You won't come back to SD with Loyola New Orleans, so please do not even consider it.

How did you study for your LSAT? Where were you practicing?

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:59 pm

What did your LSAT preparation consist of?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:47 pm

Is California Western even nationally accredited? I thought it was a largely online community college system with a random pseudo-med school.

Anyway, if you graduated from UCLA, you should be able to 1) score higher on a retake, since you must have hit minimum 2000 SAT and the correlation in potential aptitude is surprisingly strong, and 2) appreciate after looking at LST how horrible a decision either of these would be for you. With your UG degree right now, southern california is your oyster. These law schools will actually hold you back from your current employability.

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:16 am

jbagelboy wrote:Is California Western even nationally accredited? I thought it was a largely online community college system with a random pseudo-med school.

Anyway, if you graduated from UCLA, you should be able to 1) score higher on a retake, since you must have hit minimum 2000 SAT and the correlation in potential aptitude is surprisingly strong, and 2) appreciate after looking at LST how horrible a decision either of these would be for you. With your UG degree right now, southern california is your oyster. These law schools will actually hold you back from your current employability.

tabula rasa
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby tabula rasa » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:33 am

bruin91 wrote:Gun to my head, Cal Western

Gun to my head, I'd take the bullet over attending either of these schools.

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Dmini7
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Dmini7 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:38 am

tabula rasa wrote:
bruin91 wrote:Gun to my head, Cal Western

Gun to my head, I'd take the bullet over attending either of these schools.

+1.

If you don't want to take the bullet, try to put both of them against each other and increase your current scholarship offers. I would only say Cal Western since your from San Diego and atleast you don't pay living expenses. Were you dinged at USD?

BigZuck
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:23 am

OP- both these schools are really bad. Retake or don't go to law school.

I am always surprised when people who graduate from good UGs are willing to dip way down when choosing between law schools. I'm sure it's just the educational snob in me though.

lolahomer
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby lolahomer » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:53 am

I did apply to USD part time, but I haven't heard back yet. I applied late in the cycle & USD extended their deadline to August 1st, so I'm not sure how long it will be before I hear anything. If I get accepted there I will most likely go since I could keep working and it's a better school. Your replies have been really helpful.

BigZuck
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:59 am

lolahomer wrote:I did apply to USD part time, but I haven't heard back yet. I applied late in the cycle & USD extended their deadline to August 1st, so I'm not sure how long it will be before I hear anything. If I get accepted there I will most likely go since I could keep working and it's a better school. Your replies have been really helpful.


Retake or don't go applies to USD as well.

timbs4339
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:40 am

Retake. Even better, go into business selling whatever it is you're smoking that could make either of these schools look like a good idea at those prices.

Ti Malice
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:53 am

OP, can you describe for us your approach to LSAT prep?

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Presidentjlh
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Don't.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:48 pm

lolahomer wrote:Loyola New Orleans College of Law
-COA = $117,906 (w/o interest)
-$25,000 Deans Scholarship
-$250 seat deposit
-Financing COA on loans

California Western School of Law
-COA = $139,392 (w/o interest)
-$22,350 tuition discount
-$450 seat deposit
-Financing COA on loans
-may be less $$ as I have the option of living with my Mom during school

-From San Diego
-I want to work in criminal law, ideally for the District Attorney or County Counsel
-154/3.39 (UCLA)
-Non traditional student
-Taken twice w/same score

I know both of these are T3 and from looking at law school transparency their numbers are pretty close.

Any advice would be appreciated...I'm really pretty tempted by Loyola in terms of being able to live in New Orleans and experience living somewhere different, but my concern is that Louisiana law is based on civil law and everywhere else in the US uses common law. I don't really have any ties to Louisiana, I just find the idea of going and living there to be interesting.

Cal Western is pretty close to my house and I've worked around there; I know several successful graduates from Cal West but they all graduated in the 70s-90s (for the most part). I am worried about the curve as I've talked to Cal Western students who have lost their scholarships and were then paying full sticker for the remaining two years. They all said that the grading curve was harsh and that it is very difficult to maintain a scholarship.


In the unlikely event that this isn't a flame: please retake, OP. You need to realize that people who graduated from law school in the '70s-'90s had dramatically different employment outcomes than we have today. Any type of law school that will accept you with a 154/3.39 isn't worth attending. You shouldn't be worrying about the grading curve or losing your scholarship--focus on something you can control: improving your LSAT. With a 3.39, law school isn't going to make much sense for you unless you can break the 170s. If you need to take a year off to study in order to do so, do it. Otherwise, please don't go to law school. Accruing $100k+ of debt from schools with categorically terrible job prospects will ruin your life.

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Zoomie
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Zoomie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:50 pm

I am going to LOYNO. It's not a bad choice as others have said. They have a great practical skills program. You have to take ALOT of what the people say on here with a grain of salt. They are by no means experts regardless of how many blogs and articles they have read. LOYNO is a very geographically limited school. Louisiana does practice civil law but it has a common law program. A law degree from Loyola is respected in New Orleans....but that's about it. I think your chances of being a lawyer depend on you. The job market is abysmal but not impossible. Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer. There are some that don't get jobs but where were they on their ranking. What kind of jobs have they turned down. Eh, it really is a chance and as long as you have your expectations managed, I would not worry about wht the pretentious T14 are saying about either school. Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.

With that being said, if you have no ties to Louisiana and don't plan to stay here, I would go with Cal Western. You live there, have ties and will probably benefit more by attending school in an area you want to stay in, especially with a T3 school.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm

Zoomie wrote:I am going to LOYNO. It's not a bad choice as others have said. They have a great practical skills program. You have to take ALOT of what the people say on here with a grain of salt. They are by no means experts regardless of how many blogs and articles they have read. LOYNO is a very geographically limited school. Louisiana does practice civil law but it has a common law program. A law degree from Loyola is respected in New Orleans....but that's about it. I think your chances of being a lawyer depend on you. The job market is abysmal but not impossible. Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer. There are some that don't get jobs but where were they on their ranking. What kind of jobs have they turned down. Eh, it really is a chance and as long as you have your expectations managed, I would not worry about wht the pretentious T14 are saying about either school. Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.

With that being said, if you have no ties to Louisiana and don't plan to stay here, I would go with Cal Western. You live there, have ties and will probably benefit more by attending school in an area you want to stay in, especially with a T3 school.


But that makes it a gamble, and gambling when it comes to your future financial security is a very poor decision. Yes, people get jobs there, but when only like 25% of them get jobs that can pay it off, why take the risk in hopes you'll beat the odds?

And this isn't pretentiousness talking. I'm not going T14 (WUSTL). I was highly considering UNL since I am from Nebraska, and it's a T2. People don't often rag on it because it does decently for job placement for the relatively low price you pay for tuition there. It's not a matter of prestige. No one gives a crap about prestige. If Cooley got 100% of its grads good jobs as lawyers, people would be all for going there. But as it stands, it's a hell hole that sucks your money out of you.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:57 pm

Zoomie wrote:I am going to LOYNO. It's not a bad choice as others have said. They have a great practical skills program. You have to take ALOT of what the people say on here with a grain of salt. They are by no means experts regardless of how many blogs and articles they have read. LOYNO is a very geographically limited school. Louisiana does practice civil law but it has a common law program. A law degree from Loyola is respected in New Orleans....but that's about it. I think your chances of being a lawyer depend on you. The job market is abysmal but not impossible. Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer. There are some that don't get jobs but where were they on their ranking. What kind of jobs have they turned down. Eh, it really is a chance and as long as you have your expectations managed, I would not worry about wht the pretentious T14 are saying about either school. Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.

With that being said, if you have no ties to Louisiana and don't plan to stay here, I would go with Cal Western. You live there, have ties and will probably benefit more by attending school in an area you want to stay in, especially with a T3 school.


I will take your word that a LOYNO degree is respected in New Orleans, since I have literally no other reference for that information.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that a Cal Western degree is not at all respected in southern california. In fact, it is ridiculed.

BigZuck
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Zoomie wrote:I am going to LOYNO. It's not a bad choice as others have said. They have a great practical skills program. You have to take ALOT of what the people say on here with a grain of salt. They are by no means experts regardless of how many blogs and articles they have read. LOYNO is a very geographically limited school. Louisiana does practice civil law but it has a common law program. A law degree from Loyola is respected in New Orleans....but that's about it. I think your chances of being a lawyer depend on you. The job market is abysmal but not impossible. Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer. There are some that don't get jobs but where were they on their ranking. What kind of jobs have they turned down. Eh, it really is a chance and as long as you have your expectations managed, I would not worry about wht the pretentious T14 are saying about either school. Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.

With that being said, if you have no ties to Louisiana and don't plan to stay here, I would go with Cal Western. You live there, have ties and will probably benefit more by attending school in an area you want to stay in, especially with a T3 school.


Who cares about respect? Does respect pay the bills?

I'm not going to a T14, so hopefully it's ok if I call these schools terrible. Because that's what they are if you want to get a job and/or pay off your debt.

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jingosaur
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby jingosaur » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:17 pm

Zoomie wrote:Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer.


Parallel argument: "Some baseball players sign 8 figure contracts every year. That means if I sign with a Minor League team, I can get an 8 figure contract."

Zoomie wrote:Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.


Parallel argument: "Convicted felons have gone on to attend top law schools. That means that committing a felony will get me into law school."

Hopefully Loyola will teach you how to make better arguments.

And in defense of TLS, nobody on here is saying that either of these schools has been, is, and will always be terrible law schools. What people are saying that attending these law schools in today's market at the OP's offered tuition amounts is a bad decision. If, in the future, Cal Western's tuition was cut in half and if there was a good job available for everyone who passed the California Bar, Cal Western wouldn't be a horrible decision for someone in OP's position. But unfortunately, that's not the case right now.

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Zoomie
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Zoomie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:20 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Zoomie wrote:I am going to LOYNO. It's not a bad choice as others have said. They have a great practical skills program. You have to take ALOT of what the people say on here with a grain of salt. They are by no means experts regardless of how many blogs and articles they have read. LOYNO is a very geographically limited school. Louisiana does practice civil law but it has a common law program. A law degree from Loyola is respected in New Orleans....but that's about it. I think your chances of being a lawyer depend on you. The job market is abysmal but not impossible. Students graduate every year and get jobs as a lawyer. There are some that don't get jobs but where were they on their ranking. What kind of jobs have they turned down. Eh, it really is a chance and as long as you have your expectations managed, I would not worry about wht the pretentious T14 are saying about either school. Loyola has produced successful lawyers, as has Cal Western.

With that being said, if you have no ties to Louisiana and don't plan to stay here, I would go with Cal Western. You live there, have ties and will probably benefit more by attending school in an area you want to stay in, especially with a T3 school.


Who cares about respect? Does respect pay the bills?

I'm not going to a T14, so hopefully it's ok if I call these schools terrible. Because that's what they are if you want to get a job and/or pay off your debt.


I know quite a few Loyola graduates that have jobs as attorneys and are able to pay their bills. I know quite a few graduates from Southern University that can't pass the bar. What I'm trying to say is I don't feel the Louisiana market is quite as horrible as you all say. There are very few schools that offer civil law certificates outside of Louisiana and most law students don't leave the state to go to law school and then come back. A law degree from Loyola will land you a job in NOLA. You just have to do the work and be at the top of your class.

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Zoomie
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Zoomie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:26 pm

goldbh7 wrote:And in defense of TLS, nobody on here is saying that either of these schools has been, is, and will always be terrible law schools. What people are saying that attending these law schools in today's market at the OP's offered tuition amounts is a bad decision. If, in the future, Cal Western's tuition was cut in half and if there was a good job available for everyone who passed the California Bar, Cal Western wouldn't be a horrible decision for someone in OP's position. But unfortunately, that's not the case right now.


If I read OP's post, I don't think they ever asked whether or not they should go to law school but which of these law schools.

The CO 2016 for Loyola New Orleans has quite a few students coming from out of state. I am actually surprised by this because I am wondering how they will find jobs outside of Louisiana. I am not completely disagreeing with any of your arguments. They asked which one. I don't see why anyone who is not from Louisiana or seeking employment in Louisiana would come to a Louisiana school.

BigZuck
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:28 pm

Zoomie wrote:You just have to do the work and be at the top of your class.


Normally I would just say you're trolling but I don't think you would sit through two waiting threads if you were just on this site to troll. There is something deeply wrong with this sentence. Think about it. Hard.

If someone wants to be a lawyer in LA then it's LSU or Tulane or bust (and honestly, probably not Tulane). Just like the OP here, you need to retake or don't go. Don't throw your life away.

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Zoomie
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Zoomie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:33 pm

goldbh7 wrote:Hopefully Loyola will teach you how to make better arguments.



I can always count on a TLSer for a jab.
8)
Your parallel arguments were not even relevant. I was simply making a statement that the people stating don't go are automatically assuming that OP or anyone who attends one of these schools will not get a job. My point is that people graduate every year and get jobs. 27% of the 2012 class at LOYNO, according to what was reported, were unemployed 9 months after graduation. Not a great number but then I take into account how many didn't pass the bar and how many were seeking employment in another state. I also take into account the inflated employment percentages that other schools report.

Law school is absolutely a huge gamble. For someone who is only going to law school for six figure salary or the money or prestige, I would definitely recommend mechanical engineering or business.

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Zoomie
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Re: Loyola New Orleans vs. Cal Western

Postby Zoomie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:35 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Zoomie wrote:You just have to do the work and be at the top of your class.


Normally I would just say you're trolling but I don't think you would sit through two waiting threads if you were just on this site to troll. There is something deeply wrong with this sentence. Think about it. Hard.

If someone wants to be a lawyer in LA then it's LSU or Tulane or bust (and honestly, probably not Tulane). Just like the OP here, you need to retake or don't go. Don't throw your life away.


Ha, I'm really not trolling. But you're definitely creeping. That's advice a student at LSU law gave me when I asked about job prospects and employment after graduation.




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