UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

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citmon
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UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby citmon » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:26 pm

I think there are five million threads like this one so I figure I'd join the crowd.

UCLA: $20,000/year scholarship with in-state tuition and I'd be able to live at home, so the total COA without interest is roughly $90k.

Northwestern: Full sticker, so COA is roughly $250,000

I am a super splitter (well below 25th GPA everywhere), so no retakes are possible for me. The goal will be biglaw in IP litigation (I have a biology undergrad degree), although I would be able to take the patent bar for IP prosecution if no lit jobs pop up.

I HIGHLY prefer staying in California. I've spent 3 years in NY, and I hated every winter. I could deal with going to school in Chicago, but I'd want to get back asap. I might be able to deal with a DC job but that's pushing it.

My gut tells me that NU offers more job prospects, but at the high COA and the fact that I'm not interested in the Chicago/NY markets means that UCLA is a pretty good choice. I'm just worried about the 70% of people who don't get biglaw at UCLA.

nebula666
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby nebula666 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:06 pm

NU isn't worth $160k more than UCLA. Also, Chicago is colder than New York.

PRgradBYU
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:09 pm

citmon wrote:I think there are five million threads like this one so I figure I'd join the crowd.

UCLA: $20,000/year scholarship with in-state tuition and I'd be able to live at home, so the total COA without interest is roughly $90k.

Northwestern: Full sticker, so COA is roughly $250,000

I am a super splitter (well below 25th GPA everywhere), so no retakes are possible for me. The goal will be biglaw in IP litigation (I have a biology undergrad degree), although I would be able to take the patent bar for IP prosecution if no lit jobs pop up.

I HIGHLY prefer staying in California. I've spent 3 years in NY, and I hated every winter. I could deal with going to school in Chicago, but I'd want to get back asap. I might be able to deal with a DC job but that's pushing it.

My gut tells me that NU offers more job prospects, but at the high COA and the fact that I'm not interested in the Chicago/NY markets means that UCLA is a pretty good choice. I'm just worried about the 70% of people who don't get biglaw at UCLA.


What are your GPA and LSAT? How many times have you taken the LSAT?

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jbagelboy
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:11 pm

Idk how rich are your parents? If they live in westwood/bel air commuting distance to campus, im assuming a quarter mil $ is a drop in the bucket. NU definitely offers a more secure route to doing well paying IP lit.

If your loaning the COA, then UCLA for sure. Dont expect a BA in biology to get you patent prosecution jobs lol. You'll need an MA or strong WE in the field to compete

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:48 pm

IP + strong CA preference + $160k difference = UCLA

I don't know much about patent stuff, but you might need more than a BA in Bio.
Last edited by Doorkeeper on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:27 am

nebula666 wrote:NU isn't worth $160k more than UCLA. Also, Chicago is colder than New York.


It is if OP is 100% biglaw or bust.

That said, I would personally choose UCLA and just be ok with the knowledge that Biglaw might not happen, cause NU at sticker is terrifying.

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Cobretti
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby Cobretti » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:15 am

Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.

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untar614
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby untar614 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:13 pm

Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


Maybe, but also, I've been asking around a lot, and a UG bio degree by itself offers very little in terms of "security". As everyone here knows, EE and CE/CS are the hot fields, and only engineering is generally considered to have bachelors degrees teaching enough. For life science stuff, you need a publication record, likely the kind you get from a PhD. Doesn't mean you can't do IP - I'm still planning on testing the waters there and it will likely help in doing that specific field, but you don't get any boost in safety. A low GPA certainly isn't helping that either way.

citmon
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby citmon » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 pm

Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


What exactly do you mean by "focused on their UG"? I went to school at a top 20 uni so I wouldn't consider it a big negative.

Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in the lit aspect of IP so I haven't really considered how much my UG helps or hinders me in terms of IP prosecution.

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Cobretti
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby Cobretti » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:41 pm

citmon wrote:
Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


What exactly do you mean by "focused on their UG"? I went to school at a top 20 uni so I wouldn't consider it a big negative.

Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in the lit aspect of IP so I haven't really considered how much my UG helps or hinders me in terms of IP prosecution.

I meant your UG GPA, not the institution's rank. I think Untar went over the extent that they care about your academic record pretty well, which was what I was getting at. I am just wondering if anyone in the field can confirm that UG GPA is more important for IP firm recruitment. If you are published or have other strong academic factors in your favor, it could offset I would think though.

But as far as your options go I'm attending NU in the fall at pretty close to sticker and am targeting big law in socal, so you wouldn't be crazy taking that choice. I think this comes down to if you value big law over location. If you were median at both schools would you be happier working biglaw in new york out of NU, or midlaw/shitlaw in LA out of UCLA?

These scenarios are assuming you wont get much of an IP bump based on what untar said, if you are more IP secure I think UCLA becomes a lot more attractive.

BigZuck
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:23 am

Cobretti wrote:
citmon wrote:
Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


What exactly do you mean by "focused on their UG"? I went to school at a top 20 uni so I wouldn't consider it a big negative.

Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in the lit aspect of IP so I haven't really considered how much my UG helps or hinders me in terms of IP prosecution.

I meant your UG GPA, not the institution's rank. I think Untar went over the extent that they care about your academic record pretty well, which was what I was getting at. I am just wondering if anyone in the field can confirm that UG GPA is more important for IP firm recruitment. If you are published or have other strong academic factors in your favor, it could offset I would think though.

But as far as your options go I'm attending NU in the fall at pretty close to sticker and am targeting big law in socal, so you wouldn't be crazy taking that choice. I think this comes down to if you value big law over location. If you were median at both schools would you be happier working biglaw in new york out of NU, or midlaw/shitlaw in LA out of UCLA?

These scenarios are assuming you wont get much of an IP bump based on what untar said, if you are more IP secure I think UCLA becomes a lot more attractive.


So because you're doing something that automatically makes it not crazy? :)

I am curious though, is LA midlaw an honest to goodness thing? Like, people who strike out at OCI can get a job in it and stuff? This is relevant to my interests.

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Cobretti
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby Cobretti » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:22 am

BigZuck wrote:
Cobretti wrote:
citmon wrote:
Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


What exactly do you mean by "focused on their UG"? I went to school at a top 20 uni so I wouldn't consider it a big negative.

Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in the lit aspect of IP so I haven't really considered how much my UG helps or hinders me in terms of IP prosecution.

I meant your UG GPA, not the institution's rank. I think Untar went over the extent that they care about your academic record pretty well, which was what I was getting at. I am just wondering if anyone in the field can confirm that UG GPA is more important for IP firm recruitment. If you are published or have other strong academic factors in your favor, it could offset I would think though.

But as far as your options go I'm attending NU in the fall at pretty close to sticker and am targeting big law in socal, so you wouldn't be crazy taking that choice. I think this comes down to if you value big law over location. If you were median at both schools would you be happier working biglaw in new york out of NU, or midlaw/shitlaw in LA out of UCLA?

These scenarios are assuming you wont get much of an IP bump based on what untar said, if you are more IP secure I think UCLA becomes a lot more attractive.


So because you're doing something that automatically makes it not crazy? :)

I am curious though, is LA midlaw an honest to goodness thing? Like, people who strike out at OCI can get a job in it and stuff? This is relevant to my interests.

DUH (but when you consider my remaining GI Bill benefits its not really that close to sticker)

Midlaw sounds like a mythical unicorn according to some of the more senior poasters here, so it might not be much of a thing really. I never did too much research on UCLA because my preference is CA Biglaw > Chi/NY Biglaw > CA *, so I can't really help.

Agent
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby Agent » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:24 pm

+1

untar614 wrote:UG bio degree by itself offers very little in terms of "security". As everyone here knows, EE and CE/CS are the hot fields, and only engineering is generally considered to have bachelors degrees teaching enough. For life science stuff, you need a publication record, likely the kind you get from a PhD. Doesn't mean you can't do IP - I'm still planning on testing the waters there and it will likely help in doing that specific field, but you don't get any boost in safety. A low GPA certainly isn't helping that either way.

citmon
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby citmon » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:14 pm

Cobretti wrote:
citmon wrote:
Cobretti wrote:Just curious, but do super splitters with STEM UGs have a harder time breaking into IP because of how focused on their UG the recruiters are? Just wondering if this is the case, could mean OP isn't as IP secure as most people with his degree.


What exactly do you mean by "focused on their UG"? I went to school at a top 20 uni so I wouldn't consider it a big negative.

Like I said earlier, I'm more interested in the lit aspect of IP so I haven't really considered how much my UG helps or hinders me in terms of IP prosecution.

I meant your UG GPA, not the institution's rank. I think Untar went over the extent that they care about your academic record pretty well, which was what I was getting at. I am just wondering if anyone in the field can confirm that UG GPA is more important for IP firm recruitment. If you are published or have other strong academic factors in your favor, it could offset I would think though.

But as far as your options go I'm attending NU in the fall at pretty close to sticker and am targeting big law in socal, so you wouldn't be crazy taking that choice. I think this comes down to if you value big law over location. If you were median at both schools would you be happier working biglaw in new york out of NU, or midlaw/shitlaw in LA out of UCLA?

These scenarios are assuming you wont get much of an IP bump based on what untar said, if you are more IP secure I think UCLA becomes a lot more attractive.


Well I do have ~5 years of research experience; I'm not going to law school straight from college. No PhD or anything like that, but a lot more than just Molecular Biology 200 or something like that.

How much of an IP bump are people looking at in the biotech/pharma fields? I thought most of those jobs are for EE/CS degrees, which is one reason why I'm focusing on lit instead of prosecution.

y2zipper
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby y2zipper » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:23 pm

What is the unwillingness to work in NY here? I think if you're pursuing big law, you should be open to working there even If its just for awhile. Betting 135k on Cali alone isn't a good idea, and that's what you're doing at UCLA. 30% of grads don't become lawyers at all, never mind the 70% that don't get big law. NU gives you fallback markets so you could actually pay off the debt and UCLA screws you if you don't land big law.

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jselson
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby jselson » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:30 pm

Personally, I'd rather have a good job with a lot of debt rather than a dead-end job/no job with still quite a lot of debt. YMMV.

And I'd care far less about region. Every city has something cool about it. America owns.

y2zipper
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby y2zipper » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:42 am

jselson wrote:Personally, I'd rather have a good job with a lot of debt rather than a dead-end job/no job with still quite a lot of debt. YMMV.

And I'd care far less about region. Every city has something cool about it. America owns.


I agree with that assessment, but I've come to terms with the notion that I'm paying sticker if I get my LSAT to the right place and I don't get some other substantial job that makes my opportunity cost too high to go. But that's what low GPA's do.

The reason I ask is because what's more important to somebody affects the decision-making process. I think if you're gonna take 6 figures of debt and need big law to pay it off, the national school that gives you cities like New York and Chicago as fallback options in case CA doesn't happen is a better decision than going to a school where big law isn't a media outcome and the debt is tough to pay off without it.

BigZuck
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Re: UCLA ($$) v NU (Sticker)

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:51 am

y2zipper wrote:
jselson wrote:Personally, I'd rather have a good job with a lot of debt rather than a dead-end job/no job with still quite a lot of debt. YMMV.

And I'd care far less about region. Every city has something cool about it. America owns.


I agree with that assessment, but I've come to terms with the notion that I'm paying sticker if I get my LSAT to the right place and I don't get some other substantial job that makes my opportunity cost too high to go. But that's what low GPA's do.

The reason I ask is because what's more important to somebody affects the decision-making process. I think if you're gonna take 6 figures of debt and need big law to pay it off, the national school that gives you cities like New York and Chicago as fallback options in case CA doesn't happen is a better decision than going to a school where big law isn't a media outcome and the debt is tough to pay off without it.


From what I understand Chicago is never a fallback option, especially without good grades and ties




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