Cornell vs. Minnesota

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Minnesota Law vs. Cornell

Poll ended at Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:12 pm

University of Minnesota Law School
15
41%
Cornell Law School
22
59%
 
Total votes: 37

atwardow
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Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby atwardow » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:12 pm

I was just accepted off the reserve list to Cornell and have two days to inform them if I would like to go or not. Up to this point I have been planning to attend the University of Minnesota Law School, and have turned down offers from Notre Dame, George Washington, and UCLA. I have strong connections to Minneapolis-St. Paul and hope to practice there long-term. I have no debt from my undergraduate career and will not have to take out money for law school. I will also be supported financially (room and board, living expenses, etc) by wealthy relatives, so COA and other considerations are not an issue for me at all. I will finish my education with $0 in debt.

What surprised me about my admission to Cornell is that my LSAT score is only 162, and my GPA 3.87. I am not a URM. I think I had an otherwise strong application, particularly my personal statement.

Minnesota is ranked at 19, Cornell I believe 13. I am aware that Cornell has more reach, more Big Law placement, etc etc. I would like to do Big Law in the Minneapolis area long-term, so would it make more sense to go to Cornell or Minnesota?

(One more note...I have a serious girlfriend in Minneapolis who would be unable to move with me to NY if I decided to go. Another personal tie to the area.)

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:16 pm

First (and obligatory): you have a 3.87 and you aren't retaking!?! DUDE, retake that 162 for a 170+ and enjoy Columbia or UChicago or even HLS. I cannot stress how much retaking the LSAT once could help you. Please don't throw that away.

Second, are you saying you will have no debt coming out of Cornell? Or just no debt from UMN?

UMN full ride/no debt is superior to Cornell at sticker debt given your priorities. However, if you can get out of Cornell for free, its a different world of employment opportunities from UMN. The rankings are irrelevant; look at lawschooltransparency.com to give you a clue on just how dominant Cornell would be. We are talking ~65% gainful employment vs ~15%.

atwardow
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby atwardow » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:23 pm

Regarding your second query, I would have no debt leaving Cornell either. My relatives will pay for everything.

I understand the point about retaking and that this is the standard approach on this forum. I'm not sure how much improvement personally I would be able to manage since it took a tremendous amount of effort over many months for me to even make it past 160, and the idea of adding even more months and effort makes me, at this point, prefer starting law school than waiting and hoping that I could do better. But I do appreciate your good advice, particularly your reference to lawschooltransparency.com. I will study it carefully today.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:26 pm

Retake is the obvious answer. But if you don't mind blowing your folks' money, and you want MN Biglaw, Cornell is the way to go.

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untar614
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby untar614 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:32 pm

If your relatives will pay for tuition, that's all the more reason to retake and get into the best school possible without regard for what scholarships you can get. Absolutely retake, and be diligent about getting ready, and you could be going to CCN, or maybe even HYS if you improve enough. Easily worth it if you don't even need to worry about tuition.

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sinfiery
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:47 pm

Retake, in the year off ring or flee from the gf, and profit by blowing your parents money on a better school.


If you already put in a solid 4-6 months and scored near the high end of your pt avg, go to Cornell unless you prefer a Starbucks job in Minnie to a biglaw job in NYC

Michaelgcox2
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Michaelgcox2 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:22 pm

retake.

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dsn32
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby dsn32 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:29 pm

I say take the money and run to Cornell. Better school, and you honestly never know how things could change in a year.... that money from relatives is a sure thing now.

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:44 pm

I don't know much about the MN legal market but I think this thread would be very helpful for anyone interested.

Relevant quote from page 2:
Would attending a T-10 school be more beneficial than attending the U? or vice versa? Let's say I'm going for Big Law in Minneapolis.

You should likely attend the top ten school. Most large law firms in Minneapolis will go very deep into the law school class at a top school. We do not go nearly as deep at Minnesota, as we have significant leverage over the top students at UMN.

guinness1547
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby guinness1547 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:45 pm

sinfiery wrote:Retake, in the year off ring or flee from the gf, and profit by blowing your parents money on a better school.


If you already put in a solid 4-6 months and scored near the high end of your pt avg, go to Cornell unless you prefer a Starbucks job in Minnie to a biglaw job in NYC


+1. Realize if you do go to Cornell and your gf can't come with, the relationship will almost certainly end.

jcdjgd
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby jcdjgd » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:15 pm

Retake… for god sakes, retake with that GPA from heaven.

PS, if you're dead set on going, take the full ride. Sticker is a ridiculous proposition.

nebula666
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby nebula666 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:26 pm

If you have $300k of your family's money to blow, take a year off and waste less of it at a better school.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:47 pm

nebula666 wrote:If you have $300k of your family's money to blow, take a year off and waste less of it at a better school.

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Nova
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Nova » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:07 pm

sinfiery wrote: unless you prefer a Starbucks job in Minnie

Hyperbole bro

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sinfiery
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:56 pm

Nova wrote:
sinfiery wrote: unless you prefer a Starbucks job in Minnie

Hyperbole bro

Very true. Just try to use it to judge how tied people really are with a certain region.

I'm a big fan of the strong state regionals personally at a reasonable cost but Cornell could open up all the same options in minnie given his connections I bet....just at a much higher cost op isn't directly paying

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Nova
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Nova » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:57 pm

Word.

I voted Cornell too, for the reasons above.

atwardow
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby atwardow » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:45 am

Well, I am grateful for the advice. Some harsher than others, but I appreciate honesty. I'll have to muse over it over the next 24 hours. This came as an enormous surprise since I thought getting that original "reserve" email was basically a soft rejection due to my mediocre LSAT score.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:35 am

guinness1547 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Retake, in the year off ring or flee from the gf, and profit by blowing your parents money on a better school.


If you already put in a solid 4-6 months and scored near the high end of your pt avg, go to Cornell unless you prefer a Starbucks job in Minnie to a biglaw job in NYC


+1. Realize if you do go to Cornell and your gf can't come with, the relationship will almost certainly end.


+1 to all this.

Retake

jdmonkey
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby jdmonkey » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:07 am

It will also be very difficult for your GF to visit you. The Ithaca airport is tiny and has very few flights all of which are like $600 round trip. The airport in Syracuse is a little better but requires an hour of car service or renting a car to get there.

Peyton
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Peyton » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:36 am

Cornell ... they have 3X more firms attending their OCI.

OCI Click Here

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:10 am

Peyton wrote:Cornell ... they have 3X more firms attending their OCI.

OCI Click Here


The # of firms attending OCI is basically irrelevant. Only the number of offers bears any significance. All T14 schools have many more firms at OCI, but you need only look at employment data for answers. Also, UMN traditionally has fewer students taking jobs via OCI than its peers. Regardless, the two schools arent on the same playing field for firm jobs

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:42 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Peyton wrote:Cornell ... they have 3X more firms attending their OCI.

OCI Click Here


The # of firms attending OCI is basically irrelevant. Only the number of offers bears any significance. All T14 schools have many more firms at OCI, but you need only look at employment data for answers. Also, UMN traditionally has fewer students taking jobs via OCI than its peers. Regardless, the two schools arent on the same playing field for firm jobs

This is true, but there's something else interesting here. According to that link, Cornell has 0 Minnesota firms at OCI and UMN has 15.

So while I'm sure firms will still go deeper into Cornell's class, you'd also have to put in extra legwork arranging interviews if you want Minnesota biglaw from Cornell.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe there are Minnesota offices of larger firms that it's not showing.

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sublime
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:40 pm

..

atwardow
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby atwardow » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:45 am

$300 K is a drop in the bucket. I know, I'm fortunate and try to be grateful.

Lavitz wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Peyton wrote:Cornell ... they have 3X more firms attending their OCI.

OCI Click Here


The # of firms attending OCI is basically irrelevant. Only the number of offers bears any significance. All T14 schools have many more firms at OCI, but you need only look at employment data for answers. Also, UMN traditionally has fewer students taking jobs via OCI than its peers. Regardless, the two schools arent on the same playing field for firm jobs

This is true, but there's something else interesting here. According to that link, Cornell has 0 Minnesota firms at OCI and UMN has 15.

So while I'm sure firms will still go deeper into Cornell's class, you'd also have to put in extra legwork arranging interviews if you want Minnesota biglaw from Cornell.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe there are Minnesota offices of larger firms that it's not showing.


It's precisely for that reason among others that through my connections in the area, I think I could stand to do well at U of M. My goal is not Big Law in NYC or DC or anywhere else, just here. I'm OK with the regional limitations of a JD from U of MN. It'll be a gamble, but we'll see. Thank you all for the input.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell vs. Minnesota

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:02 am

You almost certainly will not get big law out of the University of Minnesota.

Retake and blast through your parents' money at a better school than either of these (or better yet go to a better school for cheapsies and then spend the money you saved on a fancy car or something).




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