Loyola Chicago ($$) vs. UNC (sticker) Forum

[ndirish2010]

Is there a stipulation on Loyola chicago just like Loyola LA Since this thread is choosing a law school and you did not include retake as an option I have been answer the questions as if these truly were your only two options. Many people will not do the same, and all you can do is really just not let it get under your skin. With that said, I really have no knowledge in either market, and if I did not have a preference I would be choosing Loyola if I was ok working in Illinois for the hope of trying to minimize debt. Personally though, I prefer NC over chicago so I would probably choose UNC as long as I had the ties (which you stated you do not). I think UNC's numbers look fairly strong due to the ridiculous number of in state students who ultimately stay in the area. I may be wrong, but I would venture to think that NC is a fairly insular market and being an out of state student there may hurt you.

Yeah, I definitely appreciate that. There is no stipulation on Loyola's scholarship. The cost of living is obviously far cheaper in NC, which is attractive, but I would prefer to work in Chicago.

If i had to choose one in your situation then go to Loyola Chicago. No stip is at least guaranteed money. If NC is as insular as I think it is, it definitely is not worth the extra money. Just realize you may never get a high paying job and you will have to work hard from day 1 to become a lawyer.

That's the thing, nobody's putting a gun to OP's head and saying he has to go to one of these. I wouldn't go to Loyola unless they were paying me. Especially if you don't have ties to Chicago, but in any case, median there and you're likely to be riding the Chicago doc review circuit.

[untar614]

ndirish isn't being a dbag, and it has nothing to do with ND. I, personally, am not a fan of ND. They get way too much coverage on ESPN, always get overly hyped cuz of Lou Holtz, and had no business being in the NCG last year just cuz of an easy schedule. But what he's saying is correct.

Loyola isn't worth more than a very low COA because only about 53% actually get lawyer jobs, and only about 10% pay particularly well.

UNC gives you a decent shot at a job, but since few are high-paying, you shouldnt take out huge debt for it.

If retaking is not an option, don't go to law school.

[Ti Malice]

Anything above nominal $$ for Loyola is absurd.

It comes down to about $32K COA for Loyola and $15K more per year for UNC.

And once again, the answer is neither. Carolina is much better school, but $141K without interest there is insane with no NC ties.

Neither isn't an option -- thanks.

Is there a gun to your head? Of course it's an option.

[Ti Malice]

Loyola isn't worth more than a very low COA because only about 53% actually get lawyer jobs, and only about 10% pay particularly well.

UNC gives you a decent shot at a job, but since few are high-paying, you shouldnt take out huge debt for it.

If retaking is not an option, don't go to law school.

Yep.

The only thing to note, though, is that his chances of working as a lawyer out of UNC would be substantially lower than the overall percentages shown on LST, given that he has no NC (or even Southern) ties. He apparently thinks UNC has some special connection to DC (ridiculous), but the school largely places locally in a very insular market.

[schrutefarms]

I don't really understand the ties thing, does this mean if you haven't lived in NC before law school then you won't be able to get a job? I don't get why where you previously lived would factor in. Could someone explain that more, I don't get it?

[dstars823]

since NC is such a small legal market, the state is generally dominated by a few law schools and people from NC. Generally, outsiders are kind of viewed with a grain of salt.

[ndirish2010]

I don't really understand the ties thing, does this mean if you haven't lived in NC before law school then you won't be able to get a job? I don't get why where you previously lived would factor in. Could someone explain that more, I don't get it?

Firms in the Triangle will be skeptical of someone who goes to Carolina with no previous ties to NC. Someone with lower grades that grew up in the Triangle will have an advantage. Though it is becoming a very transplanty area, I don't get the sense that the firms are like this. Charlotte is probably similar, and forget about the rest of the state.

[LeninLunchbox]

OP for the love of God, listen a second. I know these guys are being really harsh and puffing up their chests and all that. But PLEASE do not go to LUC for that amount of money. Please look at this! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=17

Fully 30% of LUC grads have no job at all legal or otherwise 9 months out. 45% are not lawyers of any kind. Only 30% AT MOST are in any sort of serious legal employment. I say this as someone who grew up right near LUC and would be terribly predisposed to hometown pride and all that. I would LOVE to tell you to go to there. I'm sure it's a great school that will teach you law just fine. That doesn't matter. Unfortunately that just isn't how law school works. We're not just being snobbish, we're telling you how it does work.

Law school is a buyers market and it's only getting better. Sit this year out. Get a job. Get a better idea of what you want to do in law. Retake. Get your apps in early. You WILL get into better schools. You WILL get more money. You WILL have a better shot at getting a good job. Shit, even if you've taken 3 times, just do the rest and you'll still do better.

[ndirish2010]

Nobody's puffing out chests, he's the one that brought up where I went to school, and I constantly tell people not to take the exact same deal I took three years ago. I just think it's a little naive to think you know more than 2Ls/3Ls/grads about legal hiring. I agree with your post, just wanted to clarify that.

[BigZuck]

Literally no one in this thread was harsh and there was certainly no puffing of chests. The only person being acting like a douche was the OP. Telling someone that none of their options are good and they should consider a third is not being harsh, it's just being blunt and honest.

Correct answer is definitely neither, retake. From what I understand Duke kids without ties have a hard time getting a job in the Triangle, I can only imagine how rough it would be as a UNC grad. And then of course Loyola is out of the question at that cost.

[LeninLunchbox]

Literally no one in this thread was harsh and there was certainly no puffing of chests.

LOL neither...Loyola at that price is LOL.

Not sure why anyone would be so desperate to go to law school.

What about a Roulette table in Vegas? Odds sound better.

Look, OP appears to be gone now so I don't care about you or I or anyone else hurting his feelings. Clearly he's too big of an idiot to listen to anyone. That said, the way some of you guys lay it on is not helpful. If someone came up to you in person and asked about law school advice is that how you'd answer them? "Go to Vegas with the money bro!" or "you're clearly just desperate!" No you wouldn't. And I think it's off-putting to the 0Ls. Gets them all defensive and unreceptive to the what they admittedly need to hear.

I want to emphasize that I am in no way offended by anyone's posts and completely agree with Zuck and Irish's appraisal. I just think the flippant "I'm the wise and powerful TLS vet" act is counter-productive and does nothing to encourage the special snowflakes to listen. They're very fragile and need to be handled with care lest they melt in your hands.

[PRgradBYU]

You have a horrible attitude, OP.

Also, please don't go to law school with your current options. Retake, crush the LSAT, get into a T14, do well, and profit. Your current options are likely going to force you into a career that has nothing to do with law.

[BigZuck]

Literally no one in this thread was harsh and there was certainly no puffing of chests.

LOL neither...Loyola at that price is LOL.

Not sure why anyone would be so desperate to go to law school.

What about a Roulette table in Vegas? Odds sound better.

Look, OP appears to be gone now so I don't care about you or I or anyone else hurting his feelings. Clearly he's too big of an idiot to listen to anyone. That said, the way some of you guys lay it on is not helpful. If someone came up to you in person and asked about law school advice is that how you'd answer them? "Go to Vegas with the money bro!" or "you're clearly just desperate!" No you wouldn't. And I think it's off-putting to the 0Ls. Gets them all defensive and unreceptive to the what they admittedly need to hear.

I want to emphasize that I am in no way offended by anyone's posts and completely agree with Zuck and Irish's appraisal. I just think the flippant "I'm the wise and powerful TLS vet" act is counter-productive and does nothing to encourage the special snowflakes to listen. They're very fragile and need to be handled with care lest they melt in your hands.

Disagree. Maybe the LOL quote was harsh (although I don't think "harsh" is the best way to describe what that is) but the other two aren't IMO. I have seen harshness on TLS but I don't think this thread even approximated that. As I said the only D was the OP.

I would also think that someone willingly signing up for an Internet forum in 2013 would be able to withstand the bluntness you see on TLS. If "Neither, retake" really hurts them to the core and causes them to insta-shutdown and grab their ball and go home then they might have bigger issues than just having a whole bunch of non-dischargeable debt about to be hung over their head.

[dstars823]

think OP has given up on this thread

[ndirish2010]

Point taken, I just get frustrated when people won't take reasonable advice, and when 0Ls act like they know better than people who have actually been to law school.

[Ti Malice]

think OP has given up on this thread

Oh well. If someone is going to sign up for debt slavery, I'd prefer it be an idiot who encountered all of the information necessary to make an intelligent decision rather than an idiot who didn't do adequate research.

[dstars823]

think OP has given up on this thread

Oh well. If someone is going to sign up for debt slavery, I'd prefer it be an idiot who encountered all of the information necessary to make an intelligent decision rather than an idiot who didn't do adequate research.

maybe he has a trust fund back home hes not afraid to dip into

[romothesavior]

Not sure if OP is still lurking around this thread, but these are both terrible, terrible choices at the prices being discussed. Especially since OP is from New Jersey.

Jumping into a bunch of debt at Loyola for a coin flip's shot at a crappy legal job in oversaturated Chicago is just rank idiocy. Please look at the job data and think rationally OP.