Top Law Schools

Well its pretty much up there

Cardozo is going to cost me about $60k tuition (in 3 years) and since Im living at home, it wont be factored in as much but I assume itll cost me about 80k in the long term

Fordham has accepted me off their waitlist so right now its sticker price and even if I can convince them to throw some money at me, it wont be very much and so thats going to cost me 165k tuition (in three years). Again Ill be living at home so it doesnt look like thatll cost me much but overall itll be around 190k overall I think in the long term..

What do you think, are the prospects that good that Ill pay a little more than double? From the statistics it looks like Fordham places almost double in terms of big law and it looks like they place more then 3 times in clerkships. Employment is also better at Fordham.

Some other notes: I do not plan on retaking and my scores 164 on the LSAT and a 3.7



For reference:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fordham

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo

I think you mis-used the $ markers. Everyone will think you have a large scholarship at Fordham and a small one at Cardozo. I would edit to Fordham (sticker) v Cardozo ($$).

Even so, title regardless, everyone will most likely instruct you to retake/reapply.

Thanks for the title thing

not looking to retake

Jiejiaxiang wrote:not looking to retake

jbagelboy wrote:Even so, title regardless, everyone will most likely instruct you to retake/reapply.

Considering your strong GPA (which I would have agreed to do just about anything you might see on Jackass for), may I ask:

1) what was your first practice score?

2) how long did you study for the test?

3) how many times did you take the LSAT?

4) the distribution of your errors per section?

1. 160 was my first practice but overall Ive been scoring about a 170-173
2. Studied for about 3-4 months
3. Took it twice, once unprepared and bombed it
4. Um, pretty throughout on the LSAT but in testing Ive scored the weakest in logic games; on the exam it was all over the place (mightve panicked, I dunno)

Jiejiaxiang wrote:1. 160 was my first practice but overall Ive been scoring about a 170-173
2. Studied for about 3-4 months
3. Took it twice, once unprepared and bombed it
4. Um, pretty throughout on the LSAT but in testing Ive scored the weakest in logic games; on the exam it was all over the place (mightve panicked, I dunno)

wow.

everything you said here makes you the ideal case study for a retake. you could not have planned this worse if you were trying to get us to not tell you to retake.

I know its hard for TLS to not say retake, its almost like a mantra here but Im not going to do it so for me its really one or the other

I mean from what Ive heard Fordham is a great school and will offer me more opportunities but at almost 3 times the cost is it really worth it? I think that 60K for 3 years at cardozo is almost negligible and even making lets say 50k a year I could pay it off eventually.

However at 170k, Fordham would... require me to take a 10/20 plan unless I make it to a biglaw position? (unless someone has had a different path)

It still surprises me that so many people refuse to retake. I know it may seem like you'll be putting your life on hold, but you should reconsider. I haven't even got my retake score back and I can tell you it was the best decisoin I ever made.

Good luck though

Jiejiaxiang wrote:
I mean from what Ive heard Fordham is a great school and will offer me more opportunities but at almost 3 times the cost is it really worth it? I think that 60K for 3 years at cardozo is almost negligible and even making lets say 50k a year I could pay it off eventually.

let's just say you and I have a very different idea of what a "negligible" sum of money looks like.

You've posted the employment data on your OP, so I know you've seen it. Cardozo puts basically half their class into FT, JD-req positions. If you come out making $50K/year in a legal job, then you landed top half of the class. the below median folks better either have a job lined up or be damn good baristas

FWIW as a final anecdote, I have a ~3.7 GPA. As Tekrul mentioned, a lot of splitters would slaughter kittens for it (just like I would run someone over on the street for a 3.9). I got a 164 on my first LSAT years ago w/o prep cause I was young and foolish. I retook for a 172 last year and I'll be at CLS. If you go to either of these schools, you can look over at morningside heights every day and wonder geez, shoulda done what that kid on the law school forum did

Kool-Aid wrote:It still surprises me that so many people refuse to retake. I know it may seem like you'll be putting your life on hold, but you should reconsider. I haven't even got my retake score back and I can tell you it was the best decisoin I ever made.

Good luck though

It really is shocking. Re-taking was probably one of, if not the, best decision I ever made in life. The thing that really frustrates me is if you can't get yourself to go through the LSAT grind properly and master that test, how the hell do you think you are going to handle going through law school exams, let alone do well enough at schools such as those considered here to not be debt-fucked? I'm not even exaggerating when I say that the LSAT is enjoyable compared to a law school exam. If you can't commit yourself to achieving the best LSAT score you can possibly get, you are not a good candidate for law school... good luck man, what a shame to waste a 3.7 on these options.

Jiejiaxiang wrote:1. 160 was my first practice but overall Ive been scoring about a 170-173
2. Studied for about 3-4 months
3. Took it twice, once unprepared and bombed it
4. Um, pretty throughout on the LSAT but in testing Ive scored the weakest in logic games; on the exam it was all over the place (mightve panicked, I dunno)

If you were PTing in the 170s, there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't retake. A 170+ / 3.7 could get you admitted to an infinitely better school than Cardozo or Fordham (although Fordham isn't a horrible school--just not worth anywhere near sticker). Columbia and NYU could be in play with a 172. You owe it to your future to retake, man.

You don't go to Dozo hoping to make biglaw or AIII clerkships, because it's not going to happen. You don't go to Fordham at sticker price hoping to make biglaw or AIII clerkships, because it's still probably not going to happen, and if it doesn't you're permafucked.

If you really want to be a lawyer (i.e. so bad that you wouldn't mind working for 40-55K per year for a few years, then go to Dozo. If not, retake.

TLSwag wrote:

Kool-Aid wrote:It still surprises me that so many people refuse to retake. I know it may seem like you'll be putting your life on hold, but you should reconsider. I haven't even got my retake score back and I can tell you it was the best decisoin I ever made.

Good luck though

It really is shocking. Re-taking was probably one of, if not the, best decision I ever made in life. The thing that really frustrates me is if you can't get yourself to go through the LSAT grind properly and master that test, how the hell do you think you are going to handle going through law school exams, let alone do well enough at schools such as those considered here to not be debt-fucked? I'm not even exaggerating when I say that the LSAT is enjoyable compared to a law school exam. If you can't commit yourself to achieving the best LSAT score you can possibly get, you are not a good candidate for law school... good luck man, what a shame to waste a 3.7 on these options.

I can't speak to law school exams, but a lot of what you said went into my own decision.

OP do what i did: put your current stats into LSP and then put your pt lsat scoring range in with your GPA. I'm a URM splitter so it's not very accurate for me (according to TLS), but it still puts things in perspective.

Like I said its like a mantra here to retake but Im not really looking to do it but I can understand why people want me to do it. I am 25 however and am not looking forward to delaying.

What is LSP?

Jiejiaxiang wrote:Like I said its like a mantra here to retake but Im not really looking to do it but I can understand why people want me to do it. I am 25 however and am not looking forward to delaying.

What is LSP?

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/

Jiejiaxiang wrote:Like I said its like a mantra here to retake but Im not really looking to do it but I can understand why people want me to do it. I am 25 however and am not looking forward to delaying.

What is LSP?

Law school predictor. I'd post the link but I'm on my phone.

Good luck man I mean that, but one more year is nothing if you look at the big picture.

.

I didn't want to take a year off and retake my 164, games also messed me up. I did it anyway. I jumped into the high 170s over that year off. I would kill for that GPA. You need to know that you are making the wrong call to go to either of these schools at these prices, especially when a retake could get you into a T5 if you just took a year off. By the way, I was 25 too when I decided to retake, and I'm so glad I did.

What do you think loan payments look like on Fordham at sticker every month? The odds of getting a job capable of paying it off are against you. You will end up stuck in debt, unable to buy a home, unable to marry any girl smart enough to understand shes inheriting your debt, etc. There are real consequences to the decision you are making...And all because you don't wanna wait ONE year, break into the 170s, and go to Columbia.

Kool-Aid wrote: OP do what i did: put your current stats into LSP and then put your pt lsat scoring range in with your GPA. I'm a URM splitter so it's not very accurate for me (according to TLS), but it still puts things in perspective.

Right idea, but use this for accuracy http://www.mylsn.info/app_checker.php

Games - most learnable section - is your weakest. Severely underperforming your PT average. You shouldn't even be considering these two schools.

You are not informed enough to be making a choice worth 200,000+ in debt if not retaking is your conclusion. I do more research than this when I buy a 50 dollar computer mouse.

Edit: btw everyone here that's got a solid retake reapply - please post it here

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=208084

Hopefully if this gets large enough, this conversion will be easier.

TLSwag wrote:

Kool-Aid wrote: OP do what i did: put your current stats into LSP and then put your pt lsat scoring range in with your GPA. I'm a URM splitter so it's not very accurate for me (according to TLS), but it still puts things in perspective.

Right idea, but use this for accuracy http://www.mylsn.info/app_checker.php

Thanks for the link, I didn't know anything about that.

The next time I read "I refuse to retake" after a genuine effort to help has been made, I'm leaving the thread and chuckling at the person about to get debtpwned.

Man...retake. CLS/NYU living at home can't be beat.

You pretty much came onto a thread and said you were leaving the thread, which is kind of what you did because there was little or no input Mono

its pretty frustrating to re-takes this exam when you are 25 and youre stuck at home with no income needing to pay more money for a course to retake, pretty much delaying me till next year.

but since Im not looking to retake it seems like Fordham is the better choice for jobs even though the debt is pretty high

If no income is part of your rush to get into law school, go wait tables. As sardonic as that sounds, it's not a joke. I worked 3 jobs all the way through high school and 1 all the way through UG. Perseverance, retaking, and reapplying will reap you benefits you absolutely should not pass up.

Edit: and you don't need to pay more for a course, you already have the skill and knowledge to be pt'ing low 170's. Buy practice exams 1 through present and freaking do them all timed until you resemble a machine sent from the future built to destroy the LSAT.