Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Better Choice?

St. Johns -- Full Scholarship
22
46%
George Washington -- Full Tuition
26
54%
 
Total votes: 48

mikeiso125
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Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby mikeiso125 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:03 pm

Hello all. I'm looking for some input from others while I contemplate my current situation. I recently got accepted to GW Law off the wait list, but as of now I've received no money to attend. That being said after three years I'd be looking at almost 200,000 dollars of debt because my family does not have the money to pay straight up. I was also offered a full scholarship to St. Johns University. However, the problem is I can't decide whether I'm better off dealing with debt while attending a far better school, or simply taking the most money. Anyone who has been in or is in this situation right nows advice is greatly appreciated.

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TheThriller
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby TheThriller » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:09 pm

Retake, seriously. If you have too, take the full ride knowing that you may work as a lawyer

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:10 pm

mikeiso125 wrote:Hello all. I'm looking for some input from others while I contemplate my current situation. I recently got accepted to GW Law off the wait list, but as of now I've received no money to attend. That being said after three years I'd be looking at almost 200,000 dollars of debt because my family does not have the money to pay straight up. I was also offered a full scholarship to St. Johns University. However, the problem is I can't decide whether I'm better off dealing with debt while attending a far better school, or simply taking the most money. Anyone who has been in or is in this situation right nows advice is greatly appreciated.

First question: where do you intend to practice?
Second question: will you be able to live with family in either NY or DC (to keep costs down)
Third question: do you have any other options?

GW is not worth $200k+ of debt, but, St. John's is not a good school (but understandable if free - be wary of living expenses)

mikeiso125
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby mikeiso125 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:12 pm

I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:15 pm

mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par

mikeiso125
Posts: 6
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby mikeiso125 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:21 pm

guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par


Sounds about right.. The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:33 pm

mikeiso125 wrote:
guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par


Sounds about right.. The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?

Take a gap year. Retake, then go do seething that'll give you stories to last a lifetime.
Travel, work some unusual job, maybe both, but do something crazy/adventurous.
You know your options are pretty bad, why not create a new possibility?

Get a job folding beach chairs on the Mediterranean, or sharpening skis in the alps. Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.

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trojandave
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby trojandave » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:46 pm

guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:
guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par


Sounds about right.. The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?

Take a gap year. Retake, then go do seething that'll give you stories to last a lifetime.
Travel, work some unusual job, maybe both, but do something crazy/adventurous.
You know your options are pretty bad, why not create a new possibility?

Get a job folding beach chairs on the Mediterranean, or sharpening skis in the alps. Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.


Damn, now I want to take a year off... Great advice though - I totally agree

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:51 pm

trojandave wrote:Damn, now I want to take a year off... Great advice though - I totally agree

I've had jobs testing snowboards, folding beach chairs, making ice cream, cutting curtains, cleaning toilets, working in a psychiatric hospital, nightclub promotion, and more, and I still wish I had taken a year off for the sole purpose of having an adventure

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trojandave
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby trojandave » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:54 pm

guano wrote:
trojandave wrote:Damn, now I want to take a year off... Great advice though - I totally agree

I've had jobs testing snowboards, folding beach chairs, making ice cream, cutting curtains, cleaning toilets, working in a psychiatric hospital, nightclub promotion, and more, and I still wish I had taken a year off for the sole purpose of having an adventure


That snowboard job must have been sick. Here's to clerking in Vail!

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hephaestus
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby hephaestus » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:58 pm

mikeiso125 wrote:
guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par


Sounds about right.. The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?

The final say should be retake or don't go. Even though St Johns is tuition free youll end up 50k+ in the hole with cost of living (assuming you keep the scholly). GW is emphatically not worth sticker.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:19 pm

mikeiso125 wrote:The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?


Motion that this phrase and its variants become a drinking game.

OP, retaking is your best option by far.

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:08 pm

trojandave wrote:
guano wrote:
trojandave wrote:Damn, now I want to take a year off... Great advice though - I totally agree

I've had jobs testing snowboards, folding beach chairs, making ice cream, cutting curtains, cleaning toilets, working in a psychiatric hospital, nightclub promotion, and more, and I still wish I had taken a year off for the sole purpose of having an adventure


That snowboard job must have been sick. Here's to clerking in Vail!

Hell yeah, it was. Not the best job I ever had, but, it was awesome

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dailygrind
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby dailygrind » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:09 am

Moved to appropriate subforum. Hopefully you get more responses there.

timbs4339
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:02 am

What are the stips on the SJU scholly?

What kind of law do you want to practice? What types of clients/issues do you see yourself dealing with?

nebula666
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby nebula666 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:45 pm

Gun to my head I'd take a full ride at St. Johns but retake is the answer.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:50 pm

LSAT/GPA? Goal as a lawyer? Where do you want to practice, geographically? Work experience?

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby TheNextAmendment » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:10 pm

No to GW at sticker. St.johns with minimal debt is just ok.

Giddy-Up
Posts: 103
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby Giddy-Up » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 pm

I was in your same position several years back - Full Tuition at GW v. Full Ride at Chicago T2. I took the full ride and went at night working during the day. It worked well for me, I graduated at the very top of my class with absolutely no debt and have a job I enjoy. However, things were markedly different when I applied, I wish those days would come back! Even though it worked well for me, I would caution you against taking this risk. If I had it all to do over again, I would have retaken. If I had applied myself for the LSAT, like I did for law school, I am confident that I could have scored in the 170s, instead of my 169. Even now, there is stigma associated with my degree. Many employers will look at you if you are high enough up at a T2, but a large number of jobs are simply out of reach. It sucks, but it is the reality of the situation.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby PRgradBYU » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:37 pm

If you can accept that you'll have less than a coin flip's chance at becoming a lawyer, by all means go to St. John's. TCR, however, is to retake and aim much higher. What are your career goals, LSAT, ties, etc.?

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:38 am

guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:
guano wrote:
mikeiso125 wrote:I'd be willing to practice in either D.C. or NYC (which is basically the areas in which I applied). Unfortunately I have no family in D.C. I do live in NY but I do not if I'd want to make an hour and a half commute everyday. Unfortunately my top choices all resulted in wait lists, (Georgetown, Fordham, Columbia) whereas I just got off the wait list at GW. It's just very difficult to decide whether I want to attend a mediocre school for free, or bury myself in a load of debt.

Your choices are to attend a crap school for free, or bury yourself in debt to attend a mediocre school.

Despite what the schools tell you, GW is mediocre, and St. John's is sub-par


Sounds about right.. The problem is I'm really not trying to take a year off and retake.. What would be your final say?

Take a gap year. Retake, then go do seething that'll give you stories to last a lifetime.
Travel, work some unusual job, maybe both, but do something crazy/adventurous.
You know your options are pretty bad, why not create a new possibility?

Get a job folding beach chairs on the Mediterranean, or sharpening skis in the alps. Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.


That's the second time I've seen that suggestion which is 2 more times than I'd expect to hear that. Why is this a thing? Because, being a gap year kind of guy myself, if it had some kind of appeal I haven't considered, I might consider it.

On topic: Retake. Sorry. If those were my options, I'd find a different career path. You can do so much more with your life than what law school is going to offer you at this moment. If you are dead set on going right away and these are your only 2 options, I'd take the full ride strictly because it allows you to decide you want to do something else later down the line. 200k in debt for GW is absurd.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:47 am

CyanIdes Of March wrote:
guano wrote:Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.


That's the second time I've seen that suggestion which is 2 more times than I'd expect to hear that. Why is this a thing? Because, being a gap year kind of guy myself, if it had some kind of appeal I haven't considered, I might consider it.

It's a thing because of the huge oil boom in North Dakota and their desperate need for labor. It's one of the few parts of the country begging for workers - you'd make a lot of money (for a gap year). And it'd kind of be like the wild wild west, because apparently there's more people than housing in a lot of ND oil towns, and a hugely male population (since most oil workers are men).

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:48 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
CyanIdes Of March wrote:
guano wrote:Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.


That's the second time I've seen that suggestion which is 2 more times than I'd expect to hear that. Why is this a thing? Because, being a gap year kind of guy myself, if it had some kind of appeal I haven't considered, I might consider it.

It's a thing because of the huge oil boom in North Dakota and their desperate need for labor. It's one of the few parts of the country begging for workers - you'd make a lot of money (for a gap year). And it'd kind of be like the wild wild west, because apparently there's more people than housing in a lot of ND oil towns, and a hugely male population (since most oil workers are men).


Had me until the "hugely male population" bit. Googled it, turns out the male:female ratio is a pretty big deal. Top several stories were about how much women get harassed and how Alpha you have to be.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:01 pm

CyanIdes Of March wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
CyanIdes Of March wrote:
guano wrote:Go work the oil fields of North Dakota or hand out aid in Africa. Don't consider it taking a year off, look at it as building character. Or, look at it as giving yourself a story come interview time.


That's the second time I've seen that suggestion which is 2 more times than I'd expect to hear that. Why is this a thing? Because, being a gap year kind of guy myself, if it had some kind of appeal I haven't considered, I might consider it.

It's a thing because of the huge oil boom in North Dakota and their desperate need for labor. It's one of the few parts of the country begging for workers - you'd make a lot of money (for a gap year). And it'd kind of be like the wild wild west, because apparently there's more people than housing in a lot of ND oil towns, and a hugely male population (since most oil workers are men).


Had me until the "hugely male population" bit. Googled it, turns out the male:female ratio is a pretty big deal. Top several stories were about how much women get harassed and how Alpha you have to be.

Yeah, I should have made clear, that probably wasn't a selling point. :D

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guano
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Re: Full Scholarship V. Full Tuition

Postby guano » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:14 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
CyanIdes Of March wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:It's a thing because of the huge oil boom in North Dakota and their desperate need for labor. It's one of the few parts of the country begging for workers - you'd make a lot of money (for a gap year). And it'd kind of be like the wild wild west, because apparently there's more people than housing in a lot of ND oil towns, and a hugely male population (since most oil workers are men).


Had me until the "hugely male population" bit. Googled it, turns out the male:female ratio is a pretty big deal. Top several stories were about how much women get harassed and how Alpha you have to be.

Yeah, I should have made clear, that probably wasn't a selling point. :D

It could be




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