GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Wissper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm

GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Wissper » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Decision time:

GW Law with a $14,000 /year scholarship or UMN with a $16000 / year scholarship?

Both schools are ranked close to each other, but GW law employment stats are a bit sketchy since they fund so many of their graduates with 'fellowships'. Even with that though they still place about 1/4 of their graduates in top 250 firms where UMN only does about 11-12% and their class size is smaller.

Does anyone have any insight to either school?

Thanks.

User avatar
Eberry
Posts: 12151
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Eberry » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:53 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

mx23250
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby mx23250 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:14 pm

One thing to consider is that the cost of living in the twin cities is much less than in the DC area, generally speaking. I'm familiar with both areas and if I recall, cost of living is ~30% more in DC than Minneapolis. That's just one of the many things you can consider if you're weighing the options. Both are great law schools, so you'll do well if you work hard at either one.

Wissper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Wissper » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:21 pm

Yeah that's really the biggest difference in cost of attendance is the gap in housing prices between Minneapolis and D.C.

My wife is in real estate so she would probably do better in D.C. since in Minneapolis its frozen over for 5-6 months a year which causes slowdowns in the market since no one wants to move when its -20 outside lol.

I'm curious what place in the graduating class the people doing fellowships after graduation at GWU had - if it is the bottom 23% of the class then that worries me less - unfortunately they don't give that data.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Wissper wrote:Yeah that's really the biggest difference in cost of attendance is the gap in housing prices between Minneapolis and D.C.

My wife is in real estate so she would probably do better in D.C. since in Minneapolis its frozen over for 5-6 months a year which causes slowdowns in the market since no one wants to move when its -20 outside lol.

I'm curious what place in the graduating class the people doing fellowships after graduation at GWU had - if it is the bottom 23% of the class then that worries me less - unfortunately they don't give that data.


Legal hiring doesn't work like that (outside of biglaw and other selective hiring organizations). Some in the bottom 20% might have connections or relevant work experience, others around median might be K-JD with no connections. The P2P folks are probably spread all over the bottom half.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Eberry wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Wissper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Wissper » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:41 pm

Good point Timbs... from doing some further reading it does seem that larger firms tend to recruit more consistently from GWU than UMN.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:08 pm

Since there's a post pinned to the top of the board that says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM," maybe the mods should just start locking threads of people who insist on ignoring the directions contained therein and wasting everyone's time.

User avatar
chraruce
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby chraruce » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:24 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Since there's a post pinned to the top of the board that says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM," maybe the mods should just start locking threads of people who insist on ignoring the directions contained therein and wasting everyone's time.

Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).

However, to OP, I do agree that you need to tell us a bit more about what you are looking for in a law school so that we can give you insights or opinions regarding your choices. People can give you worthless insights such as "I like one of the girls in my section at GW Law", but I doubt that this insight would help you much. Tell us what makes you tick and we might better help you with your decision.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Wissper wrote:Good point Timbs... from doing some further reading it does seem that larger firms tend to recruit more consistently from GWU than UMN.


Yes, but top 25% is still not a good chance. You get better odds walking into a casino and dropping 180K on black.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:40 pm

chraruce wrote:Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).


LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.

User avatar
chraruce
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby chraruce » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:51 am

Ti Malice wrote:
chraruce wrote:Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).


LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.


Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.

I'm glad that you realize how laughable the reasoning that I offered is, which is similar to the reasoning that you initially applied. In case your mind can't grasp it yet, let me spell it out for you: ridiculing your reasoning by setting forth a similarly flawed reasoning was my initial point. What truly surprises me is that Yale lets in people like you. An individual with lack of solid reasoning skills (which you have more than proven in these posts) and lack of desire to actually contribute (I thought Yalies wanted to save the world, not bring it down) doesn't reflect well of Yale at all. You must be an anomaly.

I feel bad for the OP though. We're trolling his post.
Last edited by chraruce on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:59 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Nova » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:21 am

OP, are you cool with living in Minneapolis long term?
chraruce wrote:Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.

Ti is cool & contributes a lot

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9645
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:28 am

chraruce wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
chraruce wrote:Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).


LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.


Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.

I'm glad that you realize how laughable the reasoning that I offered is, which is similar to the reasoning that you initially applied. In case your mind can't grasp it yet, let me spell it out for you: ridiculing your reasoning by setting forth a similarly flawed reasoning was my initial point. What truly surprises me is that Yale lets in people like you. An individual with lack of solid reasoning skills (which you have more than proven in these posts) and lack of desire to actually contribute (I thought Yalies wanted to save the world, not bring it down) doesn't reflect well of Yale at all. You must be an anomaly.

I feel bad for the OP though. We're trolling his post.


...

no

Wissper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Wissper » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:10 am

@Nova - having never lived that far north I can't say for certain that I would want to live there indefinitely

@the angry mob :D - the only thing I'm considering is employment probability of both schools based on stats alone. I'm already in, so my GPA / LSAT / how many times I've taken the LSAT don't matter in that respect, but to satisfy curiosity my GPA is 3.91. The programs of both schools are comparable - their rankings are comparable - cost of living is not being factored into this equation, and neither is tuition cost because those are within a couple thousand of each other. Whether I'm taking loans or financing it myself doesn't matter because federal loans in Minneapolis or D.C. have the same interest rate and the tuition is almost identical all things considered (scholarship, books, fees, interest, etc.).

Career goals: To get a well paying position in a firm preferably on the eastern seaboard from North Carolina and up. To this respect the location of D.C. on its face seems to have an advantage. But the employment stats have been fudged so much by their funding of student fellowships at graduation that its hard to read the rest of the numbers accurately (or to trust them entirely) - also only about 30% (I think) of their grads have reported salaries so that makes the numbers there suspect too.

I also would like to work on the law review at whichever school I attend. That seems like it would be easier to obtain at UMN because of the lower class size (280 vs 380 or so I think), but that is something that I could use some insight on.

I have lived all over the country from Atlanta to San Francisco, to Tampa where I am now. I have no ties holding me to any one area over another.

Area of Study: uncertain - but leaning towards corporate/international business right now which both schools seem to excel at.

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby guano » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:15 am

Wissper wrote:
Career goals: To get a well paying position in a firm preferably on the eastern seaboard from North Carolina and up.

Then why are you considering moving to the Midwest?

BigZuck
Posts: 10872
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:16 am

rad lulz wrote:
Eberry wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT


OP still has not done this. And for that reason I do not like the OP.

The answer is clearly "Neither. Retake."

BigZuck
Posts: 10872
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:22 am

OP: you're avoiding the most important piece of info because you don't want to hear it. But here is the deal: these schools are trying to take advantage of your laziness to use your gpa for their devious ends. Do not let them do that. Retake.

Also why do people consider going to places like Minnesota to try and backdoor their way to NYC instead of just taking the damn LSAT again and giving themselves a legitimate shot at fulfilling their aspirations?

Wissper
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Wissper » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:05 am

I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?

The question is an empirical one, not a subjective one. Given the available information about both schools' employment on graduation - which school gives better prospects?

I also never said I wanted to live in NYC.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:12 am

Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?


Because you presented a false dilemma. You act as though there are two choices, when in fact there is a third, significantly better choice. Pretty much everyone who retakes is glad they did.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby hephaestus » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:14 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?


Because you presented a false dilemma. You act as though there are two choices, when in fact there is a third, significantly better choice. Pretty much everyone who retakes is glad they did.

Yes. Your goals (well paying firm on the East coast) simply do not match these schools. Retake or don't go to law school.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:16 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
Posts: 10872
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:18 am

The only insight I can provide is that both schools offer middling job prospects and whatever you find (if you even get a job) will probably pay about 50K starting out. Not sure if that qualifies as "well paying" to you or not but it almost certainly won't be enough to pay off your debt.

BigZuck
Posts: 10872
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:19 am

rad lulz wrote:
Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?

Should I cut off my hand or my foot? Not cutting off a limb is not an option for me for "personal reasons"


Definitely foot, IMO

But non-dominant hand is defensible.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: carasrook and 5 guests