Why Go At All?

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alexrodriguez
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Why Go At All?

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:52 am

I'm not taking the LSAT for about another year.

Can all of you remind me why I want to go to law school in the first place? As of right now I know why I'm going, but in about 4 to 6 months from now I may need to come back to this post as a reminder.

I want to stay on this road to the big 180!

Why do you all want to be lawyers?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:57 am

If your decision to attend is so subject to revision and vascilation over the course of a few months, you most likely lack the conviction required to excel in law school in the first place. Ill make it an easy reminder: How about you write down to yourself why you want to go to law school here? If you come back and that reason is no longer sufficiently compelling, rather than be reconvinced, you should probably just not go.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:16 am

I want to make a lot of money.

I want to wear nice suits and live a life of luxury.

I want to help people.

I want a fair and just society.

I want to correct all the injustices of the world.

I want to be a badass.

I want an intellectually demanding profession.

I don't want to work in a small city doing small time legal work.

I want to live in a major city doing major things.

I want a nice flat with a nice view.

I want to go down in the legal world as one of the greats.

I want to make a difference. One that's very apparent.

These are some reasons I want to be a lawyer.
Last edited by alexrodriguez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:25 am

louierodriguez wrote:I want make a lot of money.

I want to wear nice suits and live a life of luxury.

I want to help people.

I want a fair and just society.

I want to correct all the injustices of the world.

I want to be a badass.

I want an intellectually demanding profession.

I don't want to work in a small city doing small time legal work.

I want to live in a major city doing major things.

I want a nice flat with a nice view.

I want to go down in the legal world as one of the greats.

I want to make a difference. One that's very apparent.

These are some reasons I want to be a lawyer.


Okay. Cool.

Several of these goals are so contradictory that they are practically mutually exclusive. In fact, some on here might argue the majority of these are not achievable in law. However, Ill let you browse around and discover for yourself -- but FWIW, if these are your true goals, and I mean this in the nicest way possible: do not go to law school regardless of whether you still want these things in the future.

Score over 172 on your LSAT and have an amazing outcome and then you'll have a chance at.. 4, maybe 5 of these.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:36 am

I argue that none of these things are contridictory or mutally exclusive.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:48 am

Barack Obama is the perfect example of how everything I listed is achievable.

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Clearly
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Clearly » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:02 am

louierodriguez wrote:Barack Obama is the perfect example of how everything I listed is achievable.
just be the next president, have fun

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DaRascal
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby DaRascal » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:03 am

Louie, you should go study! I read your post history and you really need to kill the LSAT. Just think about it- If you put in a bunch of work and break into the high 160's, you could be looking at a lot of scholarship money to a school like Florida or Miami.

kakistocracy
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby kakistocracy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:30 am

louierodriguez wrote:I argue that none of these things are contridictory or mutally exclusive.


*contradictory
*mutually

NYstate
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:42 am

Hey Louie
Are you still deployed overseas?
Just take this process one step at a time.
Study for the LSAT because you want to own that test.
Then worry about everything else. Focus on the test. Get involved in the study group threads, use the guides.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:50 am

DaRascal - Florida or Miami would be okay, but I really need a T14 to be happy.

NYstate - I am still deployed. And yea, you're right. I need to focus more on the test and less on everything else.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:59 am

louierodriguez wrote:I want to make a lot of money.

I want to wear nice suits and live a life of luxury.

I want to help people.

I want a fair and just society.

I want to correct all the injustices of the world.

I want to be a badass.

I want an intellectually demanding profession.

I don't want to work in a small city doing small time legal work.

I want to live in a major city doing major things.

I want a nice flat with a nice view.

I want to go down in the legal world as one of the greats.

I want to make a difference. One that's very apparent.

These are some reasons I want to be a lawyer.


I actually thought this was someone trolling the OP until I scrolled up. You might as well add "I like to argue" to round out your list of terrible reasons for going to law school.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:09 am

louierodriguez wrote:I want to make a lot of money.

I want to wear nice suits and live a life of luxury.

I want to help people.

I want a fair and just society.

I want to correct all the injustices of the world.

I want to be a badass.

I want an intellectually demanding profession.

I don't want to work in a small city doing small time legal work.

I want to live in a major city doing major things.

I want a nice flat with a nice view.

I want to go down in the legal world as one of the greats.

I want to make a difference. One that's very apparent.

These are some reasons I want to be a lawyer.


These aren't reasons for wanting to be a lawyer. These are reasons for wanting to be Batman.

You know what was conspicuously absent from your list? "I want to practice law." Don't go to law school until you actually do.

BigZuck
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:59 am

T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.

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Bronte
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:11 am

BigZuck wrote:T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.


No, I genuinely thought that list of reasons to go to law school was another poster giving OP shit and that it was was going to conclude with something like, "These are all reasons not to go to law school." After that post, I am very suspicious that OP is pulling our chain here.

You're right that a lot of people go to law school with similar goals. (I don't know about "T14 bros." I think it probably applies across the board.) But it's that sort of unspecific, glorified, do-well-while-doing-good, yuppie conception of the law that causes a lot of disillusionment in law school and practice.

NYstate
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:19 am

Bronte wrote:
BigZuck wrote:T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.


No, I genuinely thought that list of reasons to go to law school was another poster giving OP shit and that it was was going to conclude with something like, "These are all reasons not to go to law school." After that post, I am very suspicious that OP is pulling our chain here.

You're right that a lot of people go to law school with similar goals. (I don't know about "T14 bros." I think it probably applies across the board.) But it's that sort of unspecific, glorified, do-well-while-doing-good, yuppie conception of the law that causes a lot of disillusionment in law school and practice.


Except for the public interest and academics, everyone goes to law school because they think it will provide a stable career with a high income. Why else would they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to go?

BigZuck
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:24 am

Bronte wrote:
BigZuck wrote:T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.


No, I genuinely thought that list of reasons to go to law school was another poster giving OP shit and that it was was going to conclude with something like, "These are all reasons not to go to law school." After that post, I am very suspicious that OP is pulling our chain here.

You're right that a lot of people go to law school with similar goals. (I don't know about "T14 bros." I think it probably applies across the board.) But it's that sort of unspecific, glorified, do-well-while-doing-good, yuppie conception of the law that causes a lot of disillusionment in law school and practice.


Yeah, I think the TTTT bros are going to law school to try and get rich too (just instead of playing the odds like the T14 bros they are going to play the "I am a special snowflake and will finish at the top of my class" game). I was just commenting on the bros in the thread who are either current or future T14s and who were riding around on their high horse. That's silliness and they are Silly Billys IMO.

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Bronte
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:32 am

NYstate wrote:
Bronte wrote:
BigZuck wrote:T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.


No, I genuinely thought that list of reasons to go to law school was another poster giving OP shit and that it was was going to conclude with something like, "These are all reasons not to go to law school." After that post, I am very suspicious that OP is pulling our chain here.

You're right that a lot of people go to law school with similar goals. (I don't know about "T14 bros." I think it probably applies across the board.) But it's that sort of unspecific, glorified, do-well-while-doing-good, yuppie conception of the law that causes a lot of disillusionment in law school and practice.


Except for the public interest and academics, everyone goes to law school because they think it will provide a stable career with a high income. Why else would they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to go?


Wanting a stable career and a high income can be a reasonable factor in the decision to attend law school. But that does not come anywhere close to describing OP's post. Even if it did, it is not a good reason standing on its own to go to law school. First, the difficulty in actually obtaining a stable career and high income via law school has been well-documented on this site. Second, any well-thought out list of factors would also include some recognition of what lawyers actually do and some indication of a desire to do that thing.

BigZuck
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:39 am

I'm not saying the OP's list wasn't retarded when you consider it in totality. As jbizzle said lots of things are mutually exclusive. But Mono saying those "aren't reasons for wanting to be a lawyer" and Rick calling them "terrible reasons" are the very essence of Silly Billyness.

Peyton
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Peyton » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:42 am

I gave it my best shot but in the end I couldn’t talk my folks into buying me a Mercedes dealership.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:00 am

BigZuck wrote:I'm not saying the OP's list wasn't retarded when you consider it in totality. As jbizzle said lots of things are mutually exclusive. But Mono saying those "aren't reasons for wanting to be a lawyer" and Rick calling them "terrible reasons" are the very essence of Silly Billyness.


My problem was that the items on his list were either so vague they could apply to basically any job (wear suits, work in a big city), mutually exclusive (how are you going to help people and make $$$?), or laughably naive (correct all the injustices in the world? Be a badass? Really?). OP's reasons exclusively focus on the personal benefits he expects but completely ignores the most important thing, which is why he wants to be a lawyer. If OP is only in it for the mottles and bottles lifestyle or for the moral satisfaction of saving the world, he's in for a rude awakening when he realizes what practice is actually like for the vast majority of lawyers.

BigZuck
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:05 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:mottles and bottles

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:08 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I want to make a lot of money.

I want to wear nice suits and live a life of luxury.

I want to help people.

I want a fair and just society.

I want to correct all the injustices of the world.

I want to be a badass.

I want an intellectually demanding profession.

I don't want to work in a small city doing small time legal work.

I want to live in a major city doing major things.

I want a nice flat with a nice view.

I want to go down in the legal world as one of the greats.

I want to make a difference. One that's very apparent.

These are some reasons I want to be a lawyer.


These aren't reasons for wanting to be a lawyer. These are reasons for wanting to be Batman.


Awesome. :D

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:30 am

BigZuck wrote:I'm not saying the OP's list wasn't retarded when you consider it in totality. As jbizzle said lots of things are mutually exclusive. But Mono saying those "aren't reasons for wanting to be a lawyer" and Rick calling them "terrible reasons" are the very essence of Silly Billyness.


I mean, the notion that one would want to be a lawyer for some of the benefits it provides isn't ridiculous. It's fine to want to make a real difference in the world, and it's fine to want to make money (although, as jbagelboy said, it's really rare that someone does both of these at the same time).

But as has been mentioned before, most people don't find Biglaw particularly fun, and it's primarily because they work long hours on subjects they find tedious. The people who are the most successful are the ones who really enjoy what they do, because they don't view the long hours as onerous. You can't fake liking what you do; it eventually becomes apparent who hates their job. That's the common theme behind every story of an unhappy lawyer, whether it's the three-year burnout or the Wachtell partner who realizes it's pointless to have a lot of money if you have no free time. Ten years down the line, almost nobody who doesn't like their job says the money makes up for it, and a whole lot of those people are saying they wished they hadn't gone to law school.

So really, the important question: Is there an area of the law you would legitimately enjoy practicing? That differentiates the happy and unhappy, and down the line, the successful and unsuccessful. If you are going to law school because you realize want to practice law, good things are in your future. If you are going to law school because you think it's your ticket to the Gatsby life, go get your MBA instead and become an IB drone.

NYstate
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Re: Why Go At All?

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:50 am

Bronte wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Bronte wrote:
BigZuck wrote:T14 bros- don't kid yourselves, you are going to law school for some of the same exact reasons, primarily the ones revolving around making money. Make fun of him for the "helping people" stuff if you must but don't act like these are all bad reasons or that you're somehow above it because you actually just really love torts and the writ of habeas corpus and aren't in it for the money.


No, I genuinely thought that list of reasons to go to law school was another poster giving OP shit and that it was was going to conclude with something like, "These are all reasons not to go to law school." After that post, I am very suspicious that OP is pulling our chain here.

You're right that a lot of people go to law school with similar goals. (I don't know about "T14 bros." I think it probably applies across the board.) But it's that sort of unspecific, glorified, do-well-while-doing-good, yuppie conception of the law that causes a lot of disillusionment in law school and practice.



Except for the public interest and academics, everyone goes to law school because they think it will provide a stable career with a high income. Why else would they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to go?


Wanting a stable career and a high income can be a reasonable factor in the decision to attend law school. But that does not come anywhere close to describing OP's post. Even if it did, it is not a good reason standing on its own to go to law school. First, the difficulty in actually obtaining a stable career and high income via law school has been well-documented on this site. Second, any well-thought out list of factors would also include some recognition of what lawyers actually do and some indication of a desire to do that thing.

Yes the difficulty of a law career is well-documented yet this site is filled with people who are going anyway. Assuming they are rational, they must believe they can obtain the career and money they want despite all the information available. Some people even have distain for other who don't that law is a very risky career choice.

I think that almost all of the T14 kids on here believe they will end up in biglaw with big salaries. So, I'm disagreeing that information about law as a risky career is dissuading people on this forum.

I also would guess that most people here have no idea what practicing law or biglaw actually entails. They just see the dollar signs. There are many K-JD students, what do most of them know about the actual practice of law outside of TV shows?




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