Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

W&M, WUSTL, GW, or NU?

W&M
12
22%
WUSTL
6
11%
GW
4
7%
NU
33
60%
 
Total votes: 55

Err26
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Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Err26 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Hi everyone, I really need some good old TLS help making the right decision. I thought I had settled on W&M but a few surprises came up last minute and deposit deadlines are NOW and I'm still torn. Here are my options:

W&M: $20k/yr scholarship. Including tuition, fees living expenses, etc. it will cost me $34,650/year.

Wash U St Louis: Just had my scholarship raised to $22k/yr after NOT paying the second deposit which was due on June 1st. I guess playing hard to get pays lol. Total cost of $42,345/year.

Northwestern: No scholarship, must pay STICKER! I just got in off the waitlist about a week ago. Total cost of $70,222/year.

GW: $18k/yr scholarship. Total cost of $52,410/year.

I was initially choosing between W&M, WUSTL, and GW and had settled on W&M and was happy with the decision. GW is too big and impersonal for my taste, and WUSTL is too far away from my desired market of DC. But then WUSTL gave me even more money than W&M, which is crazy considering the ranking differential, and I got in off the wait list at NU and this really threw me off.

Things to consider:
1) I want to work in media and telecommunication law and policy in the DC area. I have a UG degree in the field, and this is the only career goal I am certain of.

2) My end goal is to work for the FCC or in-house for a media/tech firm. If possible, I'd like to work in the telecomm practice of a big law firm for a few years, and then make the transition to government. However, I am NOT big law or bust. I could happily work for non-profits such as Freepress.net or Public Knowledge.

3) I want to end up in the DC market. I have worked here on three separate occasions and have personal and career ties to the area, though I am from Denver originally.

4) HOWEVER, I realize DC is a competitive market and I would like to have the option of going home and seeking a job in Denver or other parts of the country if DC doesn't work out.

5) I have some money saved up and I will NOT be taking out the full price in loans. I have between $75-100k total between personal savings and what my family is willing to contribute. Money is NOT the biggest factor in my decision, because of this.

6) I have a serious significant other in the DC area and would like to stay close to him. His future career (academia) does not offer geographic certainty, so I would like to have the national mobility to follow him, if need be. However, he also hopes to stay on the East Coast in the mid Atlantic region.

7) A close-knit community between students and faculty is very important to me (hence why I am not so keen on GW). I want to come out of law school with employment options, but also friends.

rad lulz
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 pm

NU is your best option but not at sticker considering its total cost of $292,000 when you add the interest.

As such I would not go there either

Got any retakes?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:11 pm

If you can retake, you should do so. GPA/LSAT, and how many times have you taken it?

Err26
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Err26 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:13 pm

rad lulz wrote:NU is your best option but not at sticker considering its total cost of $292,000 when you add the interest.

As such I would not go there either

Got any retakes?


Thanks for the response. No more retakes left and I am set on going to law school this year. I worked for a year already and don't want to delay pursuing my dream in the legal career any longer. I know this isn't TLS material, but I am actually very happy with the options I have, it's just choosing between them that's killer. I was never T-14 or bust, in fact, I never thought I'd get into a T-14 in the first place. Yes, NU would be sticker, but like I said, take about $75-100k off the total loan debt cause I can pay that out of pocket.

BigZuck
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:19 pm

If these were my options I would not go to law school.

Given your career goals and desire for geographic flexibility I would not go to a school ranked lower than Harvard.

If you insist on going to law school this year I would probably temper your expectations a bit and YOLO on up to NU.

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jselson
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby jselson » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:37 pm

Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.

ie46
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby ie46 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:04 pm

jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.


I don't think that the flexibility that she wants is limited to HYS. In fact, I would like to think that the prestige of any T-14 school can provide geographical flexibility.

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Samara
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Samara » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:06 pm

jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.

DC is definitely difficult out of NU, but the other options are pretty pricey for their job prospects. DC is tough to crack from anywhere.

None of these are particularly good. Did you not apply to CU? I assume you aren't considering something that far from your SO. Ugh. I guess W&M?

Here's the thing, you've already been working in the field and it seems like you want to do lobbying/regulatory work. That can be done without a law degree. Why are you so certain that law school is the right path?

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Micdiddy
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:10 pm

ie46 wrote:
jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.


I don't think that the flexibility that she wants is limited to HYS. In fact, I would like to think that the prestige of any T-14 school can provide geographical flexibility.


To say a school has "national reach" generally means it places in NYC, Chi and SF. Any other market it places well is just icing, but certainly not an expectation from a t14. Also, there is more than geographical flexible for op, there is also the very specific, somewhat obscure job goals op has that are likely very competitive for whatever few openings there are.
Honestly I have no idea op.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:44 pm

None of these schools is worth what you're thinking of paying, and none of them give you a good shot at your goals. None of them are going to give you national mobility either, except for NU and I'd rather find a new career than blow $300k on lawl school. I guess gun to my head I'd say go W&M cause it gives you an ok chance at ending up in DC and you have the savings to avoid serious debt, but I can think of a lot more productive and fun ways to blow $100k.

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willwilliams1334
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby willwilliams1334 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:31 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:None of these schools is worth what you're thinking of paying, and none of them give you a good shot at your goals. None of them are going to give you national mobility either, except for NU and I'd rather find a new career than blow $300k on lawl school. I guess gun to my head I'd say go W&M cause it gives you an ok chance at ending up in DC and you have the savings to avoid serious debt, but I can think of a lot more productive and fun ways to blow $100k.


actually NU is the only viable option here... the work xp requirement makes him more employable at OCI than alot of t14s, and blows these schools away.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 am

willwilliams1334 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:None of these schools is worth what you're thinking of paying, and none of them give you a good shot at your goals. None of them are going to give you national mobility either, except for NU and I'd rather find a new career than blow $300k on lawl school. I guess gun to my head I'd say go W&M cause it gives you an ok chance at ending up in DC and you have the savings to avoid serious debt, but I can think of a lot more productive and fun ways to blow $100k.


actually NU is the only viable option here... the work xp requirement makes him more employable at OCI than alot of t14s, and blows these schools away.


Obviously NU is the best absolute option. But not for OP's goals. NU isn't great for DC, OP isn't biglaw or bust, and even after blowing $100k in savings OP will still graduate with nearly $200k in debt. That's insane and not worth it IMO, especially since it will force OP to work in big-city biglaw (likely Chicago) to pay off loans, which is a problem when the S.O. will have zero control over where he works. None of these are great options though, and as I said I probably wouldn't go to any if I were the OP.

BigZuck
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:45 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:None of these schools is worth what you're thinking of paying, and none of them give you a good shot at your goals. None of them are going to give you national mobility either, except for NU and I'd rather find a new career than blow $300k on lawl school. I guess gun to my head I'd say go W&M cause it gives you an ok chance at ending up in DC and you have the savings to avoid serious debt, but I can think of a lot more productive and fun ways to blow $100k.


actually NU is the only viable option here... the work xp requirement makes him more employable at OCI than alot of t14s, and blows these schools away.


Obviously NU is the best absolute option. But not for OP's goals. NU isn't great for DC, OP isn't biglaw or bust, and even after blowing $100k in savings OP will still graduate with nearly $200k in debt. That's insane and not worth it IMO, especially since it will force OP to work in big-city biglaw (likely Chicago) to pay off loans, which is a problem when the S.O. will have zero control over where he works. None of these are great options though, and as I said I probably wouldn't go to any if I were the OP.


From our Duke fanaticism that borders on homerism down to our world-weary bitterness, I am starting to believe that Rick and I are the same person.

It's an honor to echo into this chamber with you my good dude.

OP, HYS or rethink law school.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 am

BigZuck wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:None of these schools is worth what you're thinking of paying, and none of them give you a good shot at your goals. None of them are going to give you national mobility either, except for NU and I'd rather find a new career than blow $300k on lawl school. I guess gun to my head I'd say go W&M cause it gives you an ok chance at ending up in DC and you have the savings to avoid serious debt, but I can think of a lot more productive and fun ways to blow $100k.


actually NU is the only viable option here... the work xp requirement makes him more employable at OCI than alot of t14s, and blows these schools away.


Obviously NU is the best absolute option. But not for OP's goals. NU isn't great for DC, OP isn't biglaw or bust, and even after blowing $100k in savings OP will still graduate with nearly $200k in debt. That's insane and not worth it IMO, especially since it will force OP to work in big-city biglaw (likely Chicago) to pay off loans, which is a problem when the S.O. will have zero control over where he works. None of these are great options though, and as I said I probably wouldn't go to any if I were the OP.


From our Duke fanaticism that borders on homerism down to our world-weary bitterness, I am starting to believe that Rick and I are the same person.

It's an honor to echo into this chamber with you my good dude.

OP, HYS or rethink law school.


It's not really Duke fanaticism specifically so much as mere pragmatism. I just think law school is too often viewed as analogous to undergrad when it's not - it's professional school designed to get you a job, and any considerations beyond employment prospects, cost, and location should be secondary. The reason Duke is frequently TCR is because its often the cheapest option with the best chance of solid employment (it helps that they've been throwing out $$$ like gangbusters this cycle). I mean, that's the whole reason I went to Duke - they weren't even on my shortlist until they gave me a scholly too good to refuse. But Cornell and NU are just as good as Duke IMO, and if they threw out the kind of $$$ Duke does I'd recommend people go there as well.

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IAFG
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby IAFG » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:01 am

Err26 wrote:
1) I want to work in media and telecommunication law and policy in the DC area. I have a UG degree in the field, and this is the only career goal I am certain of.

Is this UG degree an engineering degree? If so, disregard all the advice you have gotten in this thread about how hard it is to get DC. If it's like, journalism, I am not sure if you know what telecom law means.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:43 am

IAFG wrote:
Err26 wrote:
1) I want to work in media and telecommunication law and policy in the DC area. I have a UG degree in the field, and this is the only career goal I am certain of.

Is this UG degree an engineering degree? If so, disregard all the advice you have gotten in this thread about how hard it is to get DC. If it's like, journalism, I am not sure if you know what telecom law means.


If you have a STEM undergrad degree, don't go to law school. If you have a Comm undergrad degree, it doesn't have any value in any field of law.

Informative
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Informative » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:27 am

Go with NU.

Err26
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Err26 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:49 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Err26 wrote:
1) I want to work in media and telecommunication law and policy in the DC area. I have a UG degree in the field, and this is the only career goal I am certain of.

Is this UG degree an engineering degree? If so, disregard all the advice you have gotten in this thread about how hard it is to get DC. If it's like, journalism, I am not sure if you know what telecom law means.


If you have a STEM undergrad degree, don't go to law school. If you have a Comm undergrad degree, it doesn't have any value in any field of law.


It's a Bachelor of Science in Communication, with a Media Management major. It's kind of an obscure thing that my UG offers. So it's not a hard science but it's definitely not straight journalism. I took quite a few technical classes including telecomm systems policy, electronic media, etc. I'm just worried I'll have a tough time explaining to employers that it isn't a standard fluffy journalism or comm degree. lol.

Err26
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Err26 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:57 pm

Samara wrote:
jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.

DC is definitely difficult out of NU, but the other options are pretty pricey for their job prospects. DC is tough to crack from anywhere.

None of these are particularly good. Did you not apply to CU? I assume you aren't considering something that far from your SO. Ugh. I guess W&M?

Here's the thing, you've already been working in the field and it seems like you want to do lobbying/regulatory work. That can be done without a law degree. Why are you so certain that law school is the right path?


I'm a reverse splitter, so I'm already doing MUCH better this cycle than expected. I did apply to CU and got nearly a full ride, but decided not to go with it. While I'd like the opportunity to work in CO if I had to, my top choice is definitely DC, and since that market is a lot tougher to crack, I thought I'd cater toward that one. CU makes it nearly impossible to work in DC and I didn't want to be stuck counting on a miracle. I know NU is tough to get to DC from, but the question is - is that an issue of choice or opportunity? I think it's quite likely that NU people don't WANT to work in DC, if they did they might fair better. Thoughts?

Anyway, I am leaning toward W&M. I could do it with basically zero loans given my savings and scholarship.

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jselson
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby jselson » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:19 pm

Err26 wrote:
Samara wrote:
jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.

DC is definitely difficult out of NU, but the other options are pretty pricey for their job prospects. DC is tough to crack from anywhere.

None of these are particularly good. Did you not apply to CU? I assume you aren't considering something that far from your SO. Ugh. I guess W&M?

Here's the thing, you've already been working in the field and it seems like you want to do lobbying/regulatory work. That can be done without a law degree. Why are you so certain that law school is the right path?


I'm a reverse splitter, so I'm already doing MUCH better this cycle than expected. I did apply to CU and got nearly a full ride, but decided not to go with it. While I'd like the opportunity to work in CO if I had to, my top choice is definitely DC, and since that market is a lot tougher to crack, I thought I'd cater toward that one. CU makes it nearly impossible to work in DC and I didn't want to be stuck counting on a miracle. I know NU is tough to get to DC from, but the question is - is that an issue of choice or opportunity? I think it's quite likely that NU people don't WANT to work in DC, if they did they might fair better. Thoughts?

Anyway, I am leaning toward W&M. I could do it with basically zero loans given my savings and scholarship.


If you're a reverse-splitter, then you ABSOLUTELY need to retake.

BigZuck
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:37 pm

Reverse splitters gonna reverse split

Err26
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Err26 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:39 pm

jselson wrote:
Err26 wrote:
Samara wrote:
jselson wrote:Given this http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/ from NU's career statistics, DC could be pretty difficult from there, although your connections may help. But you might be the perfect candidate for retake, ED UVA. You should at least be shooting for Duke, UVA, Vandy, and (for your case only), GULC.

But as someone else said, for the type of flexibility you want, you need HYS. Depending on your GPA, you may need to rethink your goals. But off the WL at NU implies that you may already be a splitter, so if then, idk, really rethink your goals.

DC is definitely difficult out of NU, but the other options are pretty pricey for their job prospects. DC is tough to crack from anywhere.

None of these are particularly good. Did you not apply to CU? I assume you aren't considering something that far from your SO. Ugh. I guess W&M?

Here's the thing, you've already been working in the field and it seems like you want to do lobbying/regulatory work. That can be done without a law degree. Why are you so certain that law school is the right path?


I'm a reverse splitter, so I'm already doing MUCH better this cycle than expected. I did apply to CU and got nearly a full ride, but decided not to go with it. While I'd like the opportunity to work in CO if I had to, my top choice is definitely DC, and since that market is a lot tougher to crack, I thought I'd cater toward that one. CU makes it nearly impossible to work in DC and I didn't want to be stuck counting on a miracle. I know NU is tough to get to DC from, but the question is - is that an issue of choice or opportunity? I think it's quite likely that NU people don't WANT to work in DC, if they did they might fair better. Thoughts?

Anyway, I am leaning toward W&M. I could do it with basically zero loans given my savings and scholarship.


If you're a reverse-splitter, then you ABSOLUTELY need to retake.


I took it three times, so I can't. Did my best, studied for like 6 months, improved, but by only by 4 points. I have major panics attacks and have always been bad at standardized tests. Re-taking again is not an option. I can't blow another year and take it a 4th time. I wish I could, but I can't. These are the choices I've got, and I'm going to take one of them.

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cinephile
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby cinephile » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Working for one year is nothing. Take another year to retake.

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Samara
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:09 pm

Err26 wrote:I'm a reverse splitter, so I'm already doing MUCH better this cycle than expected. I did apply to CU and got nearly a full ride, but decided not to go with it. While I'd like the opportunity to work in CO if I had to, my top choice is definitely DC, and since that market is a lot tougher to crack, I thought I'd cater toward that one. CU makes it nearly impossible to work in DC and I didn't want to be stuck counting on a miracle. I know NU is tough to get to DC from, but the question is - is that an issue of choice or opportunity? I think it's quite likely that NU people don't WANT to work in DC, if they did they might fair better. Thoughts?

Anyway, I am leaning toward W&M. I could do it with basically zero loans given my savings and scholarship.

I would guess that DC is at best the fourth most popular market, behind Chicago, LA and NYC. Maybe even fifth behind SF. But looking at past OCI data, the GPA requirements are significantly higher on average for DC firms than for other major markets. And all upperclassmen I've heard from on this topic say that DC is harder.

At W&M, you're also much better able to network, which is always helpful. And with almost no debt, you'll be a lot freer to pursue a wider range of options. Out of NU, sounds like you'd have to bank on DC big law, which is very restrictive, even with the T14 prestige. It's doable, but tough.

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Robespierre
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Re: Still Totally Split (W&M, GW, WUSTL, NU)

Postby Robespierre » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:16 pm

"W&M: $20k/yr scholarship. Including tuition, fees living expenses, etc. it will cost me $34,650/year."

W&M COA is only $54,650 per year?




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