Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:33 am

pkpapn wrote: I'll pardon your ignorance. According to USNews (the source you trust for your law school rankings),
"but Des Moines, Iowa, is--at least by one measure--the richest metropolitan area in America"
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... al-incomes


First, the ridiculous notion was that Des Moines was the "excellent legal market." The overall starting salary data is completely irrelevant because the median starting salary FOR LAWYERS is not in the top 25. Even factoring in cost of living, other secondary markets are absolutely blowing it out of the water. But I'm guessing you weren't aware of that, because it's pretty apparent you don't have an informed opinion.

Second, calling USNews "the source you trust for your law school rankings" is pretty good evidence you haven't spent five minutes on TLS, so stop acting like you know better than everyone else.

I go to the University of Iowa too. The only people wealthier than the parents of the kids from Chicago are the ones from Des Moines. It almost seems as if everyone from that city has parents that are multi-millionaires. I've even met a couple guys from billionaire families here.


Maybe if you recognized the logical fallacy here, you would have done better on the LSAT.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:07 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
pkpapn wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:How much do you want to be in Chicago versus Iowa?


As much as the difference in salary. The actual area doesn't really matter. Chicago is close enough to his family to not be considered a hindrance.

That being said, I've heard Des Moines has an excellent legal market comparatively to many other places, and it's one of the wealthiest metropolitan areas in the country.


Did you hear that from shitboomer Iowans? Those are the only possible people who would say that.


No this is totally credited. As a drunk unemployed shitboomer swedish dude from sioux city once told me, for biglaw markets prestige/size:

Des Moines > > > NYC > DC > Chicago/SF/ect

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:19 pm

Neither Northwestern or Michigan is worth it at those prices. Iowa is a solid option and the full ride is a great choice, but not if you don't want to practice in Iowa. I mean you may or may not be able to get to Chicago with an Iowa degree. I wouldn't count on it. If I had to choose one of these options I'd choose Iowa, unless you have enough individual wealth to go to Northwestern/Mich without loans, in which case i'd choose northwestern.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby letsjustsee » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:26 pm

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Last edited by letsjustsee on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby NYstate » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:45 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
empyreanrrv wrote:
pkpapn wrote:The other question was whether it would be a better decision to attend Iowa based on the presumption that there is a better chance to graduate in the top 10% (or higher) of the class at Iowa rather than at Northwestern or Michigan. Class rank greatly determines job offerings, correct?


You can't assume where you will graduate in the class so don't use that as a factor in making a decision. Pick Iowa if you don't care about biglaw and want to stay there. Pick NW if you wouldn't be happy without biglaw, or if you couldn't live in Iowa.


I don't agree. The correlation between GPA/LSAT factored together and 1L grades was historically .55. You can't be assured of doing well by virtue of higher incoming numbers, but it is more likely. Applicants should be aware of factual reasons behind risks, but also the benefits they may have.

That said, the expected placing differential between Iowa and NU/Mich isn't big enough to by itself make the decision. Any firm would go deep into the NU/Mich class before hiring Iowa
grads in significant numbers.


Are you an 0L? I'm trying to decide if the only people who cite that correlation as actually meaningful are the ones who have never taken a law school exam. So far, that seems to be the case, but I could be wrong. My theory is that reliance on statistical correlation breaks down after actual, individual experience.

The idea of biglaw in Iowa is more of a fantasy than reality. Maybe your friend could look up all the firms and see the number of summer associates and first years they have hired. I would be surprise if there were, what, 50 jobs? Maybe not even 25.
I would be happy to be wrong.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby pkpapn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:07 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
pkpapn wrote: I'll pardon your ignorance. According to USNews (the source you trust for your law school rankings),
"but Des Moines, Iowa, is--at least by one measure--the richest metropolitan area in America"
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... al-incomes


First, the ridiculous notion was that Des Moines was the "excellent legal market." The overall starting salary data is completely irrelevant because the median starting salary FOR LAWYERS is not in the top 25. Even factoring in cost of living, other secondary markets are absolutely blowing it out of the water. But I'm guessing you weren't aware of that, because it's pretty apparent you don't have an informed opinion.

Second, calling USNews "the source you trust for your law school rankings" is pretty good evidence you haven't spent five minutes on TLS, so stop acting like you know better than everyone else.

I go to the University of Iowa too. The only people wealthier than the parents of the kids from Chicago are the ones from Des Moines. It almost seems as if everyone from that city has parents that are multi-millionaires. I've even met a couple guys from billionaire families here.


Maybe if you recognized the logical fallacy here, you would have done better on the LSAT.


1. The part that he bolded included "Des Moines being a rich metropolitan area" so I argued that point.

2. I go to top-law-schools.com and click on rankings and what is the primary ranking emphasized on that page? USN. So yes, that's what this site trusts. Whether you and other individual posters trust it, there is no way I could know. However, visiting 5 minutes on TLS would lead you to believe that is what is trusted as that is what the site promotes.

3. I haven't taken the LSAT as another poster already showed so I'm not sure why you are bashing my nonexistent score. That being said, I took my second PT under extremely rigid and simulated conditions a couple days ago and scored a 170 after my first week of study. Most likely not as good as you people who have already devoted months of your time to studying, but I don't think a PTing a 170 with a year left until I take the test is a "bad score" to warrant an insult either.

4. "stop acting like you know better than everyone else" was one of the most ironic things you could have added to your post.

5. To another poster, I have never even implied that the legal market in Des Moines was even close to the same level as the markets in Chicago or DC. I said it was excellent in comparison to other places. This could literally refer to ANYWHERE. I was intending it to refer to your average suburban or near-metropolitan area.

I recognize law is a profession filled with elitism and a community on a website like TLS can only be an enhanced sample of that elitism, but I don't see why so many users of this site feel the need to be so insulting and rude in their responses for no reason.
Thank you to the users like Nova who have actually provided helpful responses.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:25 pm

On grades correlation at my school the people with the full ride I have are roughly 75% order of the coif last 5 years (which is not a huge sample size but still wow). I was top few people first semester 1L and haven't gotten spring grades. So my view is that theres clearly a correlation but it is far from a guarantee.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:39 pm

pkpapn wrote:1. The part that he bolded included "Des Moines being a rich metropolitan area" so I argued that point.


Then you argued a completely irrelevant point. The relevant point is whether Des Moines is an "excellent" legal market. It isn't, as pretty much anyone else could tell you.

2. I go to top-law-schools.com and click on rankings and what is the primary ranking emphasized on that page? USN. So yes, that's what this site trusts. Whether you and other individual posters trust it, there is no way I could know. However, visiting 5 minutes on TLS would lead you to believe that is what is trusted as that is what the site promotes.


That is outrageously stupid logic in its own right, but even more so when you consider that you came onto forums you were unfamiliar with and starting telling people you're trying to get to help you what they should be trusting--especially when you get it completely wrong.

3. I haven't taken the LSAT as another poster already showed so I'm not sure why you are bashing my nonexistent score. That being said, I took my second PT under extremely rigid and simulated conditions a couple days ago and scored a 170 after my first week of study. Most likely not as good as you people who have already devoted months of your time to studying, but I don't think a PTing a 170 with a year left until I take the test is a "bad score" to warrant an insult either.


Fine, you want a more direct response? Defending Des Moines as a wealthy area by using the justification "I know a couple millionaires from Des Moines" is blatantly dumb, non-scientific, and a pretty transparent misapplication of logic.

4. "stop acting like you know better than everyone else" was one of the most ironic things you could have added to your post.


You waltzed in here clearly knowing little about TLS or the legal market. You told another poster you'd "pardon his ignorance" and then stated that you "overestimated the knowledge held by some of the posters here" like a smug jackoff, despite having said nothing true of substance except "Des Moines isn't that poor when you account for cost of living." So it's not really an ironic post given that, you know, pretty much everyone is telling you that you're wrong.

5. To another poster, I have never even implied that the legal market in Des Moines was even close to the same level as the markets in Chicago or DC. I said it was excellent in comparison to other places. This could literally refer to ANYWHERE. I was intending it to refer to your average suburban or near-metropolitan area.


This is a weak copout to a statement whose real implication is demonstrably untrue. If I said I was tall compared to a lot of other people, and then someone pointed out I was three feet tall, and I responded by saying "I didn't say who I was comparing myself to, I could have been talking about anywhere. I was intending to refer to your average toddler," you'd call my reasoning idiotic, and rightly so. Three feet isn't tall compared to most people, just like most lawyers practice in a better market than Des Moines.

I recognize law is a profession filled with elitism and a community on a website like TLS can only be an enhanced sample of that elitism, but I don't see why so many users of this site feel the need to be so insulting and rude in their responses for no reason.


You came in here, said a bunch of wrong things that other posters pointed out, countered them by making stuff up, called them ignorant and said you'd overestimated their knowledge, and then claiming you'd "let this topic die" like you were dropping the mic at a rap battle. And now you have the audacity to call everyone else insulting and rude?

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:44 pm

NYstate wrote: Are you an 0L? I'm trying to decide if the only people who cite that correlation as actually meaningful are the ones who have never taken a law school exam. So far, that seems to be the case, but I could be wrong. My theory is that reliance on statistical correlation breaks down after actual, individual experience.


I don't understand what you're saying. The correlation is by definition meaningful (given that it's statistically significant) because it identifies an association pertaining to important results and demonstrates at least some predictive power with regard to those results. Correlation isn't causation, but the suggestion is strengthened by a number of factors: a) causality can't possibly run in the other direction (A can only cause B, and not vice versa), b there's no reason to believe predictive ability is different in the near future than in the recent past, and c) most importantly, there is a strong logical connection between the factors. The causal link is third-cause indirect--those who are smart and work hard get good GPAs/LSATs, and those who are smart and work hard also get good 1L grades--but certainly makes sense.

There is an important factor to distinguish--intraschool vs. interschool. If you have the best incoming numbers for anyone at CCN, for example, your combined index number (aka combined LSAT/GPA) is probably very close to all your classmates' index numbers. Therefore even if you have a decent correlation, you're not a lock to finish above median, because everyone else has credentials that are pretty close to yours (given that they all got into the same school you did). However, given that same set of numbers, if you take them to a TTT, however, you will almost certainly finish above median, as you are significantly more capable than the rest of your classmates.

If you presume a correlation of .5 for the index number (and that it's uniformly linear), then the absolute best kid in the incoming class is still only 75% to finish above median--not a guarantee by any means. The kid is also barely more than a coin flip to finish in the top 30%. These aren't numbers that guarantee a job unless you're HYS bound (and I think we can agree that if you're the best incoming kid at HYS, you don't need practical advice).

So it matters, but the variability is greater than firm variability in selecting from a candidate, so it's not a factor that your decision is going to hinge on. By the time you get down to a school where you have that predictive validity, the firm cutoff point is higher than where you would be predicted to finish. Ex. if you'd be 50% to finish top half at Chicago (an average matriculant), then it doesn't make to sense to go be the best student at Minnesota (~75% chance at top half). If firm A hires top half at Chicago and top 5% at Minnesota, then your chances of getting that job are 50% at Chicago and a little under 10% from Minnesota.

TL;DR--The correlation is a factor, but it should never override placement and money.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby pkpapn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:01 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
pkpapn wrote:1. The part that he bolded included "Des Moines being a rich metropolitan area" so I argued that point.


Then you argued a completely irrelevant point. The relevant point is whether Des Moines is an "excellent" legal market. It isn't, as pretty much anyone else could tell you.

2. I go to top-law-schools.com and click on rankings and what is the primary ranking emphasized on that page? USN. So yes, that's what this site trusts. Whether you and other individual posters trust it, there is no way I could know. However, visiting 5 minutes on TLS would lead you to believe that is what is trusted as that is what the site promotes.


That is outrageously stupid logic in its own right, but even more so when you consider that you came onto forums you were unfamiliar with and starting telling people you're trying to get to help you what they should be trusting--especially when you get it completely wrong.

3. I haven't taken the LSAT as another poster already showed so I'm not sure why you are bashing my nonexistent score. That being said, I took my second PT under extremely rigid and simulated conditions a couple days ago and scored a 170 after my first week of study. Most likely not as good as you people who have already devoted months of your time to studying, but I don't think a PTing a 170 with a year left until I take the test is a "bad score" to warrant an insult either.


Fine, you want a more direct response? Defending Des Moines as a wealthy area by using the justification "I know a couple millionaires from Des Moines" is blatantly dumb, non-scientific, and a pretty transparent misapplication of logic.

4. "stop acting like you know better than everyone else" was one of the most ironic things you could have added to your post.


You waltzed in here clearly knowing little about TLS or the legal market. You told another poster you'd "pardon his ignorance" and then stated that you "overestimated the knowledge held by some of the posters here" like a smug jackoff, despite having said nothing true of substance except "Des Moines isn't that poor when you account for cost of living." So it's not really an ironic post given that, you know, pretty much everyone is telling you that you're wrong.

5. To another poster, I have never even implied that the legal market in Des Moines was even close to the same level as the markets in Chicago or DC. I said it was excellent in comparison to other places. This could literally refer to ANYWHERE. I was intending it to refer to your average suburban or near-metropolitan area.


This is a weak copout to a statement whose real implication is demonstrably untrue. If I said I was tall compared to a lot of other people, and then someone pointed out I was three feet tall, and I responded by saying "I didn't say who I was comparing myself to, I could have been talking about anywhere. I was intending to refer to your average toddler," you'd call my reasoning idiotic, and rightly so. Three feet isn't tall compared to most people, just like most lawyers practice in a better market than Des Moines.

I recognize law is a profession filled with elitism and a community on a website like TLS can only be an enhanced sample of that elitism, but I don't see why so many users of this site feel the need to be so insulting and rude in their responses for no reason.


You came in here, said a bunch of wrong things that other posters pointed out, countered them by making stuff up, called them ignorant and said you'd overestimated their knowledge, and then claiming you'd "let this topic die" like you were dropping the mic at a rap battle. And now you have the audacity to call everyone else insulting and rude?


1. I did not argue a completely irrelevant point. I argued the point that a study from USN found that Des Moines was a rich metropolitan area when he argued that only a "shitboomer Iowan" would say that. I proved his statement false. He did not exclusively bold "the legal market" he bolded "the rich metropolitan area" part of my statement as well. Thus, this is relevant.

2. I am not telling anybody what they "should be trusting". I am demonstrating that my source was the same as the source that is promoted by this site. Just because your opinion is vastly different does not make my logic poor.

3. Again, you completely ignored part of my post. My justification for Des Moines being a wealthy area was not "I know a couple kids", it was the study on USN as I have clearly pointed out. The "I know a couple kids" was, as the logical reasoning section would call it, "additional premise, unnecessary to reach the conclusion"

4. I said I would pardon his ignorance because he was ignorant. He said "only a shitboomer Iowan" would say that Des Moines was a wealthy metropolitan area and I proved that is not true as USN would also say that.

5. Your example is terrible because you say "3 feet tall". More like I am saying that Des Moines is "5ft 10in" and is taller than a lot of people. This is true. However, you immediately bring up Chicago and DC, the "6ft 7in" NBA superstars. The implication of my statement did NOT imply that Des Moines was up there with the NBA superstars. It implied that it was taller than a good number of people you would see on the street.

To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:26 pm

WTF is this thread? The analogies alone make my eyes bleed.

OP, if your friend wants help then have him come here because you are either incapable or unwilling to share the information we need.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:46 pm

pkpapn wrote: 1. I did not argue a completely irrelevant point. I argued the point that a study from USN found that Des Moines was a rich metropolitan area when he argued that only a "shitboomer Iowan" would say that. I proved his statement false. He did not exclusively bold "the legal market" he bolded "the rich metropolitan area" part of my statement as well. Thus, this is relevant.


The point that's relevant to the discussion is whether a lawyer can get a good job, not how rich the area is. Just because Sun Valley is rich doesn't mean it's a good legal argument. Stop poking the straw man.

2. I am not telling anybody what they "should be trusting". I am demonstrating that my source was the same as the source that is promoted by this site. Just because your opinion is vastly different does not make my logic poor.


The site does not "promote" the rankings nor does it "trust" them. It presents them because it's the most common way to order the schools. That does not mean that order is the most important way to rank the schools. Even though you've backed off from your original claim that a specific poster or group of poster "trusts" USNWR, you're still incorrect.

3. Again, you completely ignored part of my post. My justification for Des Moines being a wealthy area was not "I know a couple kids", it was the study on USN as I have clearly pointed out.


Then what you wrote about knowing a couple millionaires from Des Moines was completely irrelevant. Sounds like we agree.

4. I said I would pardon his ignorance because he was ignorant. He said "only a shitboomer Iowan" would say that Des Moines was a wealthy metropolitan area and I proved that is not true as USN would also say that.


Same straw man. The focus is on the legal market, because no one really cares about how wealthy the city is otherwise. On the important critieron, you were wrong.

5. Your example is terrible because you say "3 feet tall". More like I am saying that Des Moines is "5ft 10in" and is taller than a lot of people. This is true. However, you immediately bring up Chicago and DC, the "6ft 7in" NBA superstars. The implication of my statement did NOT imply that Des Moines was up there with the NBA superstars. It implied that it was taller than a good number of people you would see on the street.


Des Moines isn't the 5'10" of the legal world. Here's the list of markets with a higher median starting salary than Des Moines, per NALP:

Atlanta, Austin, Birmingham, Boston, Charleston (WV), Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Hartford, Houston, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Louisville, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York, Oakland, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Silicon Valley, St. Louis, Tampa, Washington.

It's not that everyone else is tall, it's that you're short.

To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.


This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. People don't pick where to live out of a hat. Bigger markets carry more weight because, you know, there are more lawyers. The cities listed above contain probably 90% of the country's six-figure legal jobs. Picking a city "at random" without weighting via market size communicates effectively zero information. That's like being called three feet tall and then turning around and saying that if you picked an organism at random, you're probably taller than it because there are a lot more bacteria than humans.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Oh and here's National Jurist ranking Des Moines the sixth-worst city for lawyers on account of, you know, it sucking: http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-cities-for-young-attorneys

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby suralin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:27 pm

LOL at this thread and the attempted fiskings. Also, OP, stop pretending that you're not your "friend."

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby pkpapn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:35 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Oh and here's National Jurist ranking Des Moines the sixth-worst city for lawyers on account of, you know, it sucking: http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-cities-for-young-attorneys


Hahaha. You just proved my point. That doesn't rank Des Moines as the sixth worst overall. It ranks it as #66 best from a ranking system that started as "The top 20 best". Yes the title is the worst cities but those are in comparison to the top 20. The fact that it is even on that list proves that there are many many cities that are worse. Many many people that are shorter. Do you know how many cities there are in the country? Do you know how many aren't even ranked on that list? The fact that it was even considered for a ranking proves my point. If you drew out of a hat, the odds would strongly be with Des Moines.

And you keep trying to steer the argument to your own focus. You keep insisting that my previous arguments were focused on the legal market instead of Des Moines' status as a wealthy metropolitan area when i am TELLING you that it wasn't. That's also not what the other poster posted unless he bolded my quote in error. You don't just get to select what my intention was. I know what my intention was.

Once again, you are correct that Des Moines is nowhere near the same level as the superstar cities you name. That was never my argument. My argument was that it was better than a city you pick at random on a map of the United States.

@Suralin. Also, I am truly not my "friend". I haven't even taken the LSAT yet. I'm more than a year off from the application process. I would not be asking in other topics how to go about starting my studies for the LSAT if I had been accepted into NU law.


On Topic:
I got everything I wanted out of this topic on the first page. I am perfectly willing (as I said before) to let this topic die if others do the same by not responding.
Last edited by pkpapn on Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:41 pm

Des Moines: Now a better legal market than Bumfuck, Wyoming. Truly a proud representative of corn country.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby pkpapn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:46 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Des Moines: Now a better legal market than Bumfuck, Wyoming. Truly a proud representative of corn country.


You see, it is you and posters like you that drove this thread off-topic and began this pointless debate. You started with this rude and insulting pile of uselessness to attack Iowa for no reason. I don't expect people who clearly haven't traveled very much to hold knowledge of the less known states, but I would like to think they wouldn't attack something they know so little about. I wouldn't insult Wyoming because I have never been there and know almost nothing about it.
I hope insulting Iowa and other "flyover states" makes you feel better about yourself and eases your insecurities.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:50 pm

pkpapn wrote:2. I am not telling anybody what they "should be trusting". I am demonstrating that my source was the same as the source that is promoted by this site. Just because your opinion is vastly different does not make my logic poor.


No, your logic is poor because you are demonstrably illogical. Your claims do not follow from your premises and prior statements, or any documentable fact.

pkpapn wrote:To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.



I reread this four times to confirm. This is one of the stupidest statements Ive read on an online message board. If not #1 definitely top 5. And thats saying quite a lot.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby suralin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:55 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
pkpapn wrote:2. I am not telling anybody what they "should be trusting". I am demonstrating that my source was the same as the source that is promoted by this site. Just because your opinion is vastly different does not make my logic poor.


No, your logic is poor because you are demonstrably illogical. Your claims do not follow from your premises and prior statements, or any documentable fact.

pkpapn wrote:To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.



I reread this four times to confirm. This is one of the stupidest statements Ive read on an online message board. If not #1 definitely top 5. And thats saying quite a lot.


+1

ETA: No it's not. Imagine picking letters out of a hat to form a statement; that statement if said by someone seriously would be stupider/more nonsensical.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby untar614 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:00 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
pkpapn wrote:To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.



I reread this four times to confirm. This is one of the stupidest statements Ive read on an online message board. If not #1 definitely top 5. And thats saying quite a lot.


If you randomly threw a dart at a world map, odds are Siberian tundra would be more habitable than where your dart hit.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby suralin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:01 pm

untar614 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
pkpapn wrote:To simplify all this further, If you were to pick a city at random from the United States (like out of a hat that has the name of every city in the country), the odds would strongly favor Des Moines having a better legal market than that city. Odds are you are not going to pick a huge city like Chicago or DC.



I reread this four times to confirm. This is one of the stupidest statements Ive read on an online message board. If not #1 definitely top 5. And thats saying quite a lot.


If you randomly threw a dart at a world map, odds are Siberian tundra would be more habitable than where your dart hit.


OP is a genius. I know this because if I randomly drew an organism out of a hat containing all organisms on Earth, OP would (probably) be smarter than that organism most of the time.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:06 pm

I feel like TLS has been invaded by 0Ls who don't have a clue what they're talking about.

pkpapn: Des Moines is objectively not a great place to practice law. I've been there. There's not much going on and very little biglaw. It's certainly not the worst place in the country, but very few people who aren't from Iowa will have any interest in practicing in Des Moines.

Mono: The GPA / LSAT correlation can't be counted on because the predictive power of groups is different from that of individuals. GPA and LSAT combined have a median correlation of .48 to first year grades, which means for any individual person, it's about as likely to be predictive as not. That's a pretty poor predictor of performance when you're banking your future on it.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby DportIA » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:07 pm

This post has devolved into nonsense.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:19 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote: Mono: The GPA / LSAT correlation can't be counted on because the predictive power of groups is different from that of individuals. GPA and LSAT combined have a median correlation of .48 to first year grades, which means for any individual person, it's about as likely to be predictive as not. That's a pretty poor predictor of performance when you're banking your future on it.


Well, predictive isn't a binary variable (the r-squared corresponds to higher levels of the DV being explained by the IV) but in general I agree with your point. While I said the correlation does exist, I also said (apologies if I wasn't clear) that within a school, variability is too high to guarantee a decent outcome even if you are the very best student in the incoming class, and that the predictive power of GPA/LSAT wasn't a reason to pick a school.

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Re: Iowa with full-ride, Northwestern/$10k,or michigan sticker?

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:14 am

pkpapn wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Des Moines: Now a better legal market than Bumfuck, Wyoming. Truly a proud representative of corn country.


You see, it is you and posters like you that drove this thread off-topic and began this pointless debate. You started with this rude and insulting pile of uselessness to attack Iowa for no reason. I don't expect people who clearly haven't traveled very much to hold knowledge of the less known states, but I would like to think they wouldn't attack something they know so little about. I wouldn't insult Wyoming because I have never been there and know almost nothing about it.
I hope insulting Iowa and other "flyover states" makes you feel better about yourself and eases your insecurities.


I'm from Iowa you retard. Calling Des Moines a wealthy city and a good legal market is just retarded. There is no other word for it. Is it a good place to practice in comparison to East St. Louis and Needles, CA? Obviously, but that doesn't make your opinion any less stupid.




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