NYU v UVA for Biglaw

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NYU or UVA

Poll ended at Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:14 pm

NYU
35
65%
UVA
19
35%
 
Total votes: 54

sideoffries
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NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sideoffries » Thu May 30, 2013 1:14 pm

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Last edited by sideoffries on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

nebula666
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby nebula666 » Thu May 30, 2013 1:25 pm

Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:27 pm

sideoffries wrote:
white male

I am in a very fortunate position where I will have no debt upon graduation via my family wherever I go.


sideoffries wrote:I think I want to do corporate work (M&A I think)

sideoffries wrote:I know it doesn't really matter, but if you think it does: I am an outspoken conservative and will join FedSoc Day 1

sideoffries wrote:I'm on the UChicago waitlist and it's UChicago over everything else if I get in.


lolol. you seem like fun. well at least you're consistent.

congrats on getting off the nyu waitlist

seems like you'd prefer C'ville to NYC (I find this extremely difficult to relate to, but there it is), and the job prospects aren't that different. if you graduate bottom third you're licking the barrel anyway.

given your demographic and your priorities, I'm tempted to say UVA even tho the debt isn't important. the question is, will you be okay working in NYC for a while after graduation? NYU will give you a better shot at V10 M&A law and an ultimately more prestigious starting point. However, if you would rather work somewhere else and you don't fancy spending the next 5-10 years in NYC, it won't make a difference and you'll have a better time at UVA (and save more of your parents money, if that's important to you). You should also speak with your SO and factor in her priorities if its a serious enough relationship, since both your options are good for your goals

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:28 pm

nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt

nebula666
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby nebula666 » Thu May 30, 2013 1:31 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


Well he claims to be fiscally conservative but is fine blowing $300k of his parents' money. If he has the money to do nothing but study for a year, why not go to Harvard or save his parents a significant amount of money instead?

09042014
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 30, 2013 1:34 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


Debt isn't the only way to look at it. If OP is dipping into his trust fund that he'd be able to use later in life, it still costs him money. If his rich boomer parents are just going to pay for it no matter, what, maybe the cost isn't a big deal though.

But this retake advice is shit, pure shit. He retook once and raised his score 4 points. Retaking isn't some magic in which your scores magically rise because you want them too.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:38 pm

nebula666 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


Well he claims to be fiscally conservative but is fine blowing $300k of his parents' money. If he has the money to do nothing but study for a year, why not go to Harvard or save his parents a significant amount of money instead?


they aren't really "blowing" the money since OP is getting a good legal education and >50% chance at a good job.

conservative & wealthy =/= fiscally conservative these days. "fiscal conservatism" in the political arena is a scam to prevent black ppl and latinos from collecting welfare, kill social service programs and increase the wealth gap. Neither party is interested in deficit reduction, just as OP's parents are prolly st louis old money and are more than happy to pay for his legal education. if I was loaded I'd pay for my kids to go to law school too.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu May 30, 2013 1:42 pm

Well, look man. Do you want to work in M&A or do you want to live outside of NYC? Figure out what your goals are here. If you want to do M&A corporate work, you will probably have to work in NYC, and NYU will give you at least a marginally better chance at the firms that do the lion's share of that work, so you should go to NYU. If you want to live in STL or Dallas, and hate NYC, then I guess UVA because the difference isn't as stark.

The money is close enough to come out in the wash here.

sideoffries
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sideoffries » Thu May 30, 2013 1:44 pm

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Last edited by sideoffries on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:50 pm

sideoffries wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:
Well he claims to be fiscally conservative but is fine blowing $300k of his parents' money. If he has the money to do nothing but study for a year, why not go to Harvard or save his parents a significant amount of money instead?


they aren't really "blowing" the money since OP is getting a good legal education and >50% chance at a good job.

conservative & wealthy =/= fiscally conservative these days. "fiscal conservatism" in the political arena is a scam to prevent black ppl and latinos from collecting welfare, kill social service programs and increase the wealth gap. Neither party is interested in deficit reduction, just as OP's parents are prolly st louis old money and are more than happy to pay for his legal education. if I was loaded I'd pay for my kids to go to law school too.


Actually we're not St. Louis old money. My grandmother passed away 6 months ago leaving my family a good chunk of money and real estate. Before her death, I was looking at taking out loans for almost the entire cost of law school.


okay. well then I actually might agree that saving as much of that money as possible would be a good idea (unless its a HUGE inheritance), since it could be spread around to the rest of your family - if you were going to loan out the entire amount prior, then your family didn't have significant resources and could probably benefit from you saving them money. UVA will end up being $50K+ cheaper so I would be leaning toward that as TCR then but thats a personal financial decision that we shouldn't dwell on. careerwise I think we've addressed the main points already

sideoffries
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sideoffries » Thu May 30, 2013 1:51 pm

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Last edited by sideoffries on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

sideoffries
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sideoffries » Thu May 30, 2013 1:54 pm

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Last edited by sideoffries on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:57 pm

sideoffries wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:okay. well then I actually might agree that saving as much of that money as possible would be a good idea (unless its a HUGE inheritance), since it could be spread around to the rest of your family - if you were going to loan out the entire amount prior, then your family didn't have significant resources and could probably benefit from you saving them money. UVA will end up being $50K+ cheaper so I would be leaning toward that as TCR then but thats a personal financial decision that we shouldn't dwell on. careerwise I think we've addressed the main points already


It's not HUGE, but there is plenty to go around. Basically my family was willing to pay for my rent+food at law school and that was it (however, I got some indication that my grandmother was going to chip in for my law school too but she died). I meant almost the entire cost of tuition - sorry I was not clear.


My condolences to you and your family for your grandmother.

I voted NYU with the assumption of the bolded I think given your posts after your OP it will give you 1) greater shot at your stated M&A goal and 2) more flexibility given that you might want to change your goals

edit: you will find similarly minded individuals in fed society @ nyu despite the lefty stereotype, but they will be tasteful about it. NYC is a very liberal city even tho there's a lot of money. so if you attend, you cannot be as insular as at UVA, and be prepared to broaden your social/political perspective (or at least keep the "outspoken" at a low as not to alienate people)
Last edited by jbagelboy on Thu May 30, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sideoffries
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sideoffries » Thu May 30, 2013 1:58 pm

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Last edited by sideoffries on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm

sideoffries wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
sideoffries wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:okay. well then I actually might agree that saving as much of that money as possible would be a good idea (unless its a HUGE inheritance), since it could be spread around to the rest of your family - if you were going to loan out the entire amount prior, then your family didn't have significant resources and could probably benefit from you saving them money. UVA will end up being $50K+ cheaper so I would be leaning toward that as TCR then but thats a personal financial decision that we shouldn't dwell on. careerwise I think we've addressed the main points already


It's not HUGE, but there is plenty to go around. Basically my family was willing to pay for my rent+food at law school and that was it (however, I got some indication that my grandmother was going to chip in for my law school too but she died). I meant almost the entire cost of tuition - sorry I was not clear.


My condolences to you and your family for your grandmother.

I voted NYU with the assumption of the bolded I think given your posts after your OP it will give you 1) greater shot at your stated M&A goal and 2) more flexibility given that you might want to change your goals


Thank you. Do you think that an NYU degree will not be a hindrance to lateraling back to STL if I want to?


Once you've worked at a V10 firm, my impression is that those contacts will ultimately be more influential 3-5 years out than where you got your JD. The UVA network might have a few more roots, but everyone knows NYU is a prestigious school and I wouldn't label it as a hindrance. Neither school is in close geographic proximity - its not like we're comparing WUSTL and NYU

also important will just be demonstrating that you're not a flight risk. if you make it clear you want to work long term in st louis due to family, ect., coming out of nyu shouldn't be a problem

edit: lastly, to be fair, ask romothesavior about st louis legal market. he'll know more than me

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu May 30, 2013 2:23 pm

I also just noticed the "outspoken conservative" thing. Honestly you may be significantly more comfortable at UVA. NYU is pretty uniformly liberal, particularly socially. FedSoc is basically invisible there (though maybe it's active enough to satisfy the people who actually participate in it). This isn't a small thing, especially since you seem to have a bit of a cultural hangup about NYC in the first place.

senorhosh
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby senorhosh » Thu May 30, 2013 3:33 pm

Job prospects are definitely not a wash.

I personally think UVA gets too much credit on TLS but you can look at LST and make your own conclusion.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu May 30, 2013 3:53 pm

What were you PTing around on the LSAT? 2 more points and you'd have a fair shot at H, 3 very good, and 4 you'd be in.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 30, 2013 7:25 pm

NYU is better for biglaw and better for your specific biglaw goals (corporate M&A would be largely targeting NYC biglaw firms).

It's environment and comfort vs. better job prospects (and being close to your girlfriend).

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JamesDean1955
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:35 pm

Annoying TLS Parrot here, but retake. Don't waste that GPA and settle for anything less than HYS. You are capable of hitting 170-173 I have no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who got those scores the first two times can break 170. It doesn't matter what you are PTing at now, take a significant break from the LSAT, recharge your neurons, and hit the books again. Watch your scores rise a bit when you come back to it. Profit.

NYU at sticker is not worth it. I turned down $62.5k at NYU for a higher (but not crazy higher) scholarship elsewhere with a better COL, and barely blinked. And, I love NYC and work here. I do not have your GPA, nor do I have a significant opportunity cost that I would be giving up for LS, unless I wanted to be a career paralegal, which I don't. So I am in a worse situation than you and I still wouldn't take these options.

And UVA at $12k/year, you really shouldn't even need to ask.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:43 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


No. SLS and YLS are possibilities here, and both are better options. OP clearly has no idea what he wants to do, things change in LS. He knows absolutely nothing about M&A work AFA I can tell. I have worked in various biglaw practice areas as a non-attorney and I advise against going to law school with these preconceived notions that aren't based on any real substance, like actually working in the field. 9 times out of 10 it's not what most 0Ls think it is like.

And rationalizing paying ridiculous sticker fees and NYC COL because the bank of mom and dad will fund it is the worst logic people on these boards use to justify these decisions. The money can be put to better uses and it is absolutely not necessary he go to NYU at sticker.

The black and white Bill Murray is growing on me, I have to say. Hiding behind a tree is funnier though.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


Debt isn't the only way to look at it. If OP is dipping into his trust fund that he'd be able to use later in life, it still costs him money. If his rich boomer parents are just going to pay for it no matter, what, maybe the cost isn't a big deal though.

But this retake advice is shit, pure shit. He retook once and raised his score 4 points. Retaking isn't some magic in which your scores magically rise because you want them too.


Magic, no, science yes. It's a learnable test to a very high extent. The retake advice is not pure shit. People are generally capable of scoring in certain ranges. I would be as bold to say that anyone (assuming no mental illnesses or other conditions) who can hit mid 160s first try can break 170s. It's all in the preparation. And taking a break from the damn thing.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 30, 2013 7:50 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


No. SLS and YLS are possibilities here, and both are better options. OP clearly has no idea what he wants to do, things change in LS. He knows absolutely nothing about M&A work AFA I can tell. I have worked in various biglaw practice areas as a non-attorney and I advise against going to law school with these preconceived notions that aren't based on any real substance, like actually working in the field. 9/10 it's not what most 0Ls think it is like.

And rationalizing paying ridiculous sticker fees and NYC COL because the bank of mom and dad will fund it is the worst logic people on these boards use to justify these decisions. The money can be put to better uses and it is absolutely not necessary he go to NYU at sticker.

The black and white Bill Murray is growing on me, I have to say. Hiding behind a tree is funnier though.


Yea, you'll notice I kinda changed my tune a little after... that post was back when I had interpreted OP's family as far wealthier than he later specified they were. Clearly, Stanford and Yale would both open up opportunities for OP, but no LSAT score can guarantee them, whereas Harvard and CLS would be locks at 173+. Also, I was going easy because OP did already retake once, unlike some of the more stubborn posters that have cropped up in the past few days, and made a substantive improvement that opened up a T6 school.

Attending NYU with no debt is a far better outcome all things considered than what I am doing (granted, circumstances are different since I'm paying my way), so I don't feel quite as comfortable judging the option as insufficient.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:54 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nebula666 wrote:Retake for a few more points. Sorry but that is the best option. If not, UVA.


lol why? the only schools that would provide arguably better chance at OP's goals are CLS and Harvard anyway, and NYU has solid numbers with the firms OP is interested in. Usually I'd say retake because its not worth the $$, but OP will have no debt


No. SLS and YLS are possibilities here, and both are better options. OP clearly has no idea what he wants to do, things change in LS. He knows absolutely nothing about M&A work AFA I can tell. I have worked in various biglaw practice areas as a non-attorney and I advise against going to law school with these preconceived notions that aren't based on any real substance, like actually working in the field. 9/10 it's not what most 0Ls think it is like.

And rationalizing paying ridiculous sticker fees and NYC COL because the bank of mom and dad will fund it is the worst logic people on these boards use to justify these decisions. The money can be put to better uses and it is absolutely not necessary he go to NYU at sticker.

The black and white Bill Murray is growing on me, I have to say. Hiding behind a tree is funnier though.


Yea, you'll notice I kinda changed my tune a little after... that post was back when I had interpreted OP's family as far wealthier than he later specified they were. Clearly, Stanford and Yale would both open up opportunities for OP, but no LSAT score can guarantee them, whereas Harvard and CLS would be locks at 173+. Also, I was going easy because OP did already retake once, unlike some of the more stubborn posters that have cropped up in the past few days, and made a substantive improvement that opened up a T6 school.

Attending NYU with no debt is a far better outcome all things considered than what I am doing (granted, circumstances are different since I'm paying my way), so I don't feel quite as comfortable judging the option as insufficient.


Yeah but it's not really no debt, is it? That's real money being spent. Approx. $270,000.00 after interest, give or take a few thousand. That's a lot of damn money. That money AFAIK does not have a special stipulation placed on it by his grandmother's Will that says it must be used for educational purposes. Assuming this is the case, that is bad financial rationalization. This can easily be avoided and there is a huge opportunity cost at play here.

Also, I think 171 is a lock for CLS, and 172 for HLS, next cycle given that GPA. Just my opinion though.

ETA: The correct amount of money being spent is (current NYU tuition) x 3. OP could pay the entire 3 years of tuition, avoid interest, and avoid ridiculous tuition hikes. AFAIK it is possible to pay your entire tuition up front. So my calculation was a little high. Still, a lot of $$$$ though. And that $$$$ could be put somewhere it could be earning a decent return.
Last edited by JamesDean1955 on Thu May 30, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: NYU v UVA for Biglaw

Postby sinfiery » Thu May 30, 2013 7:56 pm

YLS is very unlikely from a state U that gives a+s based just on numbers. SLS is possible. HLS would require a 171 for a chance but is only a lock at 173.

CLS isn't worth the year off vs NYU.

The only reason to retake is scholly money. Not a bad reason if OP was pting 170+. I agree that ignoring money because X person is paying for school isn't a great way to think about it.

What OP should do depends on how his prep for the LSAT went.

It's also harder to go from a 168 - 170 than 164 - 168.




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