Harvard vs Michigan $$

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Harvard vs Michigan

Harvard
108
77%
Michigan
32
23%
 
Total votes: 140

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:10 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Peyton wrote:To OP: What I do not understand, why Mich hasn’t enthusiastically said yes to a full ride? Your score certainly warrants it.

Given the drop in legal applications Mich should be all over you. Then there’s Michigan's steady decline in the rakings (which doesn’t affect you one way or the other) but it potentially affects Mich…. considering the rankings game that all the schools play, Mich needs you in their classroom.


Yeah, going from 10 last year to 9 this year is quite the steady decline. Then there's the fact they've never been outside the top ten. But whatever.


Their steady decline in job prospects (which is significant) is by far the most troubling factor.

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Sheffield
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Sheffield » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Their steady decline in job prospects (which is significant) is by far the most troubling factor.

I took notice of that troubling stat, especially since I was once courted by Michigan. I also thought Michigan dropped in the rankings, but I just noticed it was the ATL ranking that has Michigan at #12. For nearly everyone else I would say take Harvard, no matter what, but the OP has an agenda which makes the decision a toss-up (unless Michigan is free).

nebula666
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby nebula666 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:53 pm

If it was UM for free vs. Harvard this would be a tougher choice but you should not pay 1 penny in tuition to attend Michigan over Harvard even at sticker.

That being said, you will still have a cheap degree from a T14 if you go to UM so nobody can fault you for that.

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bosmer88
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby bosmer88 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:OP, I don't know what your "personal reasons" are, but 90% of the time this turns out to be "But I really love my boyfriend/girlfriend and he/she will be closer to School X." This is almost always a terrible reason to pick one law school over another. You want to go to Michigan because you value some short-term aspect of your life over the best long-term decision (Harvard and it isn't close). You post this hoping to find a bunch of people who would tell you Michigan, and when they didn't, you claim to nonetheless be leaning Michigan for reasons that apparently a bunch of other twentysomethings who all made/will make the same kind of decision you're making wouldn't understand.



This. I went through the same thing this cycle except replace Michigan with Berkeley. I went with H though because I am trying to think long-term here.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:37 pm

nebula666 wrote:you should not pay 1 penny in tuition to attend Michigan over Harvard even at sticker.

... well that's a pretty silly line to draw.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:56 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:The people voting for Michigan must be riding Harvard's waitlist, because it's easily worth $60k more. Unless Mich gives you a full ride, this isn't really a serious discussion.


+1

OP if you contact Michigan are articulate about why you want to go there is a very good chance they will give you a full ride. No one would expect that 3.8/178 would accept at Michigan, but given your reasons I think Michigan with zero debt would be a great choice.

eph
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby eph » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:30 pm

It is too late in the game for full rides at Michigan. 99.999% of Darrows were done much earlier in the cycle.
Last edited by eph on Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ti Malice
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:48 pm

eph wrote:This person isn't real...


Are you paranoid? Almost every post I've seen from you has some bizarre comment like this.

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:29 pm

.
Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:22 am

Use the Harvard acceptance to get more money from Michigan. It's obvious that OP wants to go to Michigan.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:39 am

Choosing Michigan over Harvard is like thinking UCI is a sound choice for law school.

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suralin
better than you
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby suralin » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:07 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:Choosing Michigan over Harvard is like thinking UCI is a sound choice for law school.


:lol:

thelawdoctor
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby thelawdoctor » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:10 pm

If you REALLY want to save money and are ok with Michigan (or Florida even for that matter) go Cooley. They hand out scholarships like candy to anyone who could get into Ivy. Heck, they'd probably line up a paying job too.

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:15 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:If you REALLY want to save money and are ok with Michigan (or Florida even for that matter) go Cooley. They hand out scholarships like candy to anyone who could get into Ivy. Heck, they'd probably line up a paying job too.


This was terrible and you should feel terrible.

dennycrane59
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby dennycrane59 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:29 pm

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt). Sigh, I actually really really like Michigan as a school.. students/faculty/admissions/location all seem great. This is not TCR.. but with a full-ride I would have been there in a heartbeat. Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.

Uncertainty..
Michigan: 43.3% firm + 8.5% clerkship + 16% PI = 67.8%
Harvard: 53.6% firm + 17.8% clerkship + 11.4% PI = 82.8%

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Lavitz
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Lavitz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:08 pm

dennycrane59 wrote:Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:24 pm

Lavitz wrote:
dennycrane59 wrote:Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.


Michigan adcoms have fucking silly stupid self esteem and estimation of their own value relative to other schools. Im not even surprised by this response. They act like they are T5 when in reality they are hard pressed to claim T10 status. My interactions with their finaid confirm these accounts; they wont negotiate and their justifications vis a vis rival schools are often absurd. With regard to debt, they acted with me like a market paying biglaw job in NyC was a guaranteed fallback for all Mich grads. Still, this is a new level of indignity and audacity -- the comparison to Harvard blows my anecdotes out of the water.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:25 pm

dennycrane59 wrote:Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).


The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:39 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
dennycrane59 wrote:Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).


The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.


Lol maybe that was their play.

NYstate
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby NYstate » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:40 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
dennycrane59 wrote:Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).


The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.


Michigan probably decided that you were going to Harvard anyway. This is what you should do.

They also don't seem to want or need your numbers.

Just go to Harvard.

dennycrane59
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby dennycrane59 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:44 pm

NYstate wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
dennycrane59 wrote:Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).


The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.


Michigan probably decided that you were going to Harvard anyway. This is what you should do.

They also don't seem to want or need your numbers.

Just go to Harvard.


177, 3.8 and they seem entirely ambivalent about my attendance

I feel unloved :(

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:55 pm

dennycrane59 wrote: My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt). Sigh, I actually really really like Michigan as a school.. students/faculty/admissions/location all seem great. This is not TCR.. but with a full-ride I would have been there in a heartbeat. Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.


"How Michigan went from Top 5 to having worse job prosects than DNC," Exhibit A.

Suppose we already knew this--if Michigan didn't already think it was on Harvard's level, it wouldn't have told every OCI student to bid Chicago heavily and would have noticed when a huge chunk whiffed on everything. It's pretty hard to screw up your ranking when it's an effing positive feedback loop, but I guess this is how you do it.

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:10 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
dennycrane59 wrote:Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.


Michigan adcoms have fucking silly stupid self esteem and estimation of their own value relative to other schools. Im not even surprised by this response. They act like they are T5 when in reality they are hard pressed to claim T10 status. My interactions with their finaid confirm these accounts; they wont negotiate and their justifications vis a vis rival schools are often absurd. With regard to debt, they acted with me like a market paying biglaw job in NyC was a guaranteed fallback for all Mich grads. Still, this is a new level of indignity and audacity -- the comparison to Harvard blows my anecdotes out of the water.


Agreed. Given how their current students talk about/defend the school I'm not surprised. Dat Kool Aid.

T12 4 lyf

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Bronte
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Bronte » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:"How Michigan went from Top 5 to having worse job prosects than DNC," Exhibit A.


Michigan was top 5 in U.S. News in 1987 for one year before U.S. News changed its rankings formula, dropping Michigan to the 7-10 range starting in 1988, where it's remained ever since. Likewise, Michigan's placement in NLJ 250 has been relatively consistent, given the fact that schools jump around on that thing from year to year like crazy.

Michigan is no Harvard, but there's no substantial distinctions between the schools you guys fuss over all day.

Ti Malice
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Re: Harvard vs Michigan $$

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:21 pm

dennycrane59 wrote:Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.

Uncertainty..
Michigan: 43.3% firm + 8.5% clerkship + 16% PI = 67.8%
Harvard: 53.6% firm + 17.8% clerkship + 11.4% PI = 82.8%


Thing is, the uncertainty gap is significantly greater than that. Rest assured that a lot more of Michigan's "PI" grads are doing low-end PI work compared to Harvard grads. High-end PI/gov't is barely hiring, and grads from YHS have a tremendous advantage there. Also, YHS students frequently go on to very lucrative non-legal careers (sometimes returning to the places they worked before law school) at places that strongly favor YHS JDs over any other school's JD, so the fact that a number of people from YHS take "JD advantage" jobs is not necessarily a negative. For YHS, the traditional assumptions about employment outcomes are much less applicable, and, accordingly, the LST percentages are a lot less informative.

Edit: grammar fail
Last edited by Ti Malice on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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