Harvard vs Michigan $$ Forum

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

To OP: What I do not understand, why Mich hasn’t enthusiastically said yes to a full ride? Your score certainly warrants it.

Given the drop in legal applications Mich should be all over you. Then there’s Michigan's steady decline in the rakings (which doesn’t affect you one way or the other) but it potentially affects Mich…. considering the rankings game that all the schools play, Mich needs you in their classroom.

Yeah, going from 10 last year to 9 this year is quite the steady decline. Then there's the fact they've never been outside the top ten. But whatever.

Their steady decline in job prospects (which is significant) is by far the most troubling factor.

[Sheffield]

Their steady decline in job prospects (which is significant) is by far the most troubling factor.

I took notice of that troubling stat, especially since I was once courted by Michigan. I also thought Michigan dropped in the rankings, but I just noticed it was the ATL ranking that has Michigan at #12. For nearly everyone else I would say take Harvard, no matter what, but the OP has an agenda which makes the decision a toss-up (unless Michigan is free).

[nebula666]

If it was UM for free vs. Harvard this would be a tougher choice but you should not pay 1 penny in tuition to attend Michigan over Harvard even at sticker.

That being said, you will still have a cheap degree from a T14 if you go to UM so nobody can fault you for that.

[bosmer88]

OP, I don't know what your "personal reasons" are, but 90% of the time this turns out to be "But I really love my boyfriend/girlfriend and he/she will be closer to School X." This is almost always a terrible reason to pick one law school over another. You want to go to Michigan because you value some short-term aspect of your life over the best long-term decision (Harvard and it isn't close). You post this hoping to find a bunch of people who would tell you Michigan, and when they didn't, you claim to nonetheless be leaning Michigan for reasons that apparently a bunch of other twentysomethings who all made/will make the same kind of decision you're making wouldn't understand.

This. I went through the same thing this cycle except replace Michigan with Berkeley. I went with H though because I am trying to think long-term here.

[dixiecupdrinking]

you should not pay 1 penny in tuition to attend Michigan over Harvard even at sticker.

... well that's a pretty silly line to draw.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

The people voting for Michigan must be riding Harvard's waitlist, because it's easily worth $60k more. Unless Mich gives you a full ride, this isn't really a serious discussion.

+1

OP if you contact Michigan are articulate about why you want to go there is a very good chance they will give you a full ride. No one would expect that 3.8/178 would accept at Michigan, but given your reasons I think Michigan with zero debt would be a great choice.

[eph]

It is too late in the game for full rides at Michigan. 99.999% of Darrows were done much earlier in the cycle.

[Ti Malice]

This person isn't real...

Are you paranoid? Almost every post I've seen from you has some bizarre comment like this.

[Myself]

.

[Doorkeeper]

Use the Harvard acceptance to get more money from Michigan. It's obvious that OP wants to go to Michigan.

[Dr. Dre]

Choosing Michigan over Harvard is like thinking UCI is a sound choice for law school.

[suralin]

Choosing Michigan over Harvard is like thinking UCI is a sound choice for law school.

[thelawdoctor]

If you REALLY want to save money and are ok with Michigan (or Florida even for that matter) go Cooley. They hand out scholarships like candy to anyone who could get into Ivy. Heck, they'd probably line up a paying job too.

[BigZuck]

If you REALLY want to save money and are ok with Michigan (or Florida even for that matter) go Cooley. They hand out scholarships like candy to anyone who could get into Ivy. Heck, they'd probably line up a paying job too.

This was terrible and you should feel terrible.

[dennycrane59]

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt). Sigh, I actually really really like Michigan as a school.. students/faculty/admissions/location all seem great. This is not TCR.. but with a full-ride I would have been there in a heartbeat. Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.

Uncertainty..
Michigan: 43.3% firm + 8.5% clerkship + 16% PI = 67.8%
Harvard: 53.6% firm + 17.8% clerkship + 11.4% PI = 82.8%

[Lavitz]

Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.

[jbagelboy]

Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.

Michigan adcoms have fucking silly stupid self esteem and estimation of their own value relative to other schools. Im not even surprised by this response. They act like they are T5 when in reality they are hard pressed to claim T10 status. My interactions with their finaid confirm these accounts; they wont negotiate and their justifications vis a vis rival schools are often absurd. With regard to debt, they acted with me like a market paying biglaw job in NyC was a guaranteed fallback for all Mich grads. Still, this is a new level of indignity and audacity -- the comparison to Harvard blows my anecdotes out of the water.

[rickgrimes69]

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.

[jbagelboy]

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.

Lol maybe that was their play.

[NYstate]

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.

Michigan probably decided that you were going to Harvard anyway. This is what you should do.

They also don't seem to want or need your numbers.

Just go to Harvard.

[dennycrane59]

Some info for future applicants since I hate when OPs leave a thread hanging..

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

The sheer egregiousness of this lie shows chutzpah. I like it. Go to Michigan.

Michigan probably decided that you were going to Harvard anyway. This is what you should do.

They also don't seem to want or need your numbers.

Just go to Harvard.

177, 3.8 and they seem entirely ambivalent about my attendance

I feel unloved

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

My attempt to negotiate the $30,000 up with $25,000 from Harvard oddly failed. Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt). Sigh, I actually really really like Michigan as a school.. students/faculty/admissions/location all seem great. This is not TCR.. but with a full-ride I would have been there in a heartbeat. Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.

"How Michigan went from Top 5 to having worse job prosects than DNC," Exhibit A.

Suppose we already knew this--if Michigan didn't already think it was on Harvard's level, it wouldn't have told every OCI student to bid Chicago heavily and would have noticed when a huge chunk whiffed on everything. It's pretty hard to screw up your ranking when it's an effing positive feedback loop, but I guess this is how you do it.

[BigZuck]

Their response was that they're already cheaper and I would have the same career opportunities from either school (so same ability to repay debt).

Are they serious? Michigan just equated themselves to Harvard?

I would take Harvard here.

Michigan adcoms have fucking silly stupid self esteem and estimation of their own value relative to other schools. Im not even surprised by this response. They act like they are T5 when in reality they are hard pressed to claim T10 status. My interactions with their finaid confirm these accounts; they wont negotiate and their justifications vis a vis rival schools are often absurd. With regard to debt, they acted with me like a market paying biglaw job in NyC was a guaranteed fallback for all Mich grads. Still, this is a new level of indignity and audacity -- the comparison to Harvard blows my anecdotes out of the water.

Agreed. Given how their current students talk about/defend the school I'm not surprised. Dat Kool Aid.

T12 4 lyf

[Bronte]

"How Michigan went from Top 5 to having worse job prosects than DNC," Exhibit A.

Michigan was top 5 in U.S. News in 1987 for one year before U.S. News changed its rankings formula, dropping Michigan to the 7-10 range starting in 1988, where it's remained ever since. Likewise, Michigan's placement in NLJ 250 has been relatively consistent, given the fact that schools jump around on that thing from year to year like crazy.

Michigan is no Harvard, but there's no substantial distinctions between the schools you guys fuss over all day.

[Ti Malice]

Its just hard to justify the greater risk/uncertainty career prospects wise when I'll still have $100,000 in debt when all is said and done.

Uncertainty..
Michigan: 43.3% firm + 8.5% clerkship + 16% PI = 67.8%
Harvard: 53.6% firm + 17.8% clerkship + 11.4% PI = 82.8%

Thing is, the uncertainty gap is significantly greater than that. Rest assured that a lot more of Michigan's "PI" grads are doing low-end PI work compared to Harvard grads. High-end PI/gov't is barely hiring, and grads from YHS have a tremendous advantage there. Also, YHS students frequently go on to very lucrative non-legal careers (sometimes returning to the places they worked before law school) at places that strongly favor YHS JDs over any other school's JD, so the fact that a number of people from YHS take "JD advantage" jobs is not necessarily a negative. For YHS, the traditional assumptions about employment outcomes are much less applicable, and, accordingly, the LST percentages are a lot less informative.

Edit: grammar fail