Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which should I choose?

Harvard Near-Sticker
170
54%
Texas Full Tuition and Fees
146
46%
 
Total votes: 316

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby shifty_eyed » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:32 pm

Good luck!

Don't be too proud to grovel to your parents for help with those undergrad loans either.

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:55 pm

Who knows what the future will hold. Good luck w/ your decision.

That H bomb will take you places for sure though.

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jselson
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jselson » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:10 pm

ajclark1992 wrote:I think I'm taking Harvard. The loan payments are a little nerve-racking, but here's what I'm thinking: For the first 2-4 years, I can put minimum payments on the GradPlus loans and pay the undergrad private loans off as quickly as possible. That'll open me up to use LIPP if I need it -- or to finish the payments 8 years out of school through private practice if I can stick it out. If I can get through the first 8-9 years out of law school by putting $4000 / month towards loans and putting bonuses towards loans (while still maintaining a relatively stable middle class take-home income in Texas), I'll be home free by the time I'm 31-33.

If I had decided on Texas over Harvard, I would have reapplied for next fall, knowing that the Texas scholarship would still probably be there. But I knew that I wasn't going to get into Harvard a second time and I couldn't pass up the opportunity.

It definitely won't be easy. And I'm still a little scared. Just got to take the dive and put in the deposit by the 14th. I really appreciate all y'all's advice. It was taken with more than a grain of salt, for sure.


Yer a baller, dude.

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ajclark1992
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby ajclark1992 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:19 am

ugggh.

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:22 am

ajclark1992 wrote:ugggh.


Yes?

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ajclark1992
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby ajclark1992 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:29 am

BigZuck wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:ugggh.


Yes?


I think I want to go to Texas and just gun hard.

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untar614
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby untar614 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:30 am

ajclark1992 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:ugggh.


Yes?


I think I want to go to Texas and just gun hard.

need a hug?

I know these decisions are rough, and this is a point where no one can straight up tell you what to do. I'd still opt for the coin flip trick in this situation.

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ronanOgara
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby ronanOgara » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:34 am

ajclark1992 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:ugggh.


Yes?


I think I want to go to Texas and just gun hard.


Then go. You said if you attended Harvard and got TX Big Law you would be living a "medium-income lifestyle" for a while. If you go to Texas and get TX Big Law, you can be living the high-income lifestyle. If you don't get big law from Texas, you can still live the medium income lifestyle and not have to worry about the debt.

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ajclark1992
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby ajclark1992 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:37 am

untar614 wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:ugggh.


Yes?


I think I want to go to Texas and just gun hard.

need a hug?

I know these decisions are rough, and this is a point where no one can straight up tell you what to do. I'd still opt for the coin flip trick in this situation.


haha that's where I'm at (and I'd love a hug).

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:44 am

Again, I can see the logic of either side.

4K a month in loan payments for years and years sounds like hell to me. But, I also think that you, like most Texans, are inflating a UT degree here. It really does not sound to me like getting a big law job out of UT is an easy feat ITE. I say that as someone who would like Texas big law and chose UT over higher ranked schools. But I only was comfortable doing that when my debt level was low enough that I wouldn't need big law. You would need big law (unless of course PAYE really is a game changer).

Still voting for DAT MORDECAI (or the equivalent). Same debt level as if you went to UT but much greater shot at big law. I would think almost guaranteed with Texas ties and the weight of a named scholarship on your resume assuming you actually snagged one.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:04 am

Yup. This is a tough, tough decision. Serious pros and cons to each side. No one could really blame you for whatever decision you made.

I still think the question comes down to this: Do you want to play it safe in your twenties for a relatively difficult but nearly guaranteed lifestyle? Or do you want to roll the dice for a baller lifestyle, but a significant chance of missing it all?

My vote is still for Harvard, using this as a tiebreaker: You know exactly what you'd be getting into. It will be tough, but for the most part, there will be no surprises, no worries of whiffing, no "I need to finish significantly above median or I'm absolutely screwed" feeling.

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thisiswater
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby thisiswater » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:12 am

I don't know what city you are in, but if it's Dallas there seem to be a ton of paralegal jobs open right now for some reason and all of them would give you the opportunity to see what big law looks like from the inside and pay down your debt. I'd work for a year or two and come back to this. It'll make your app more attractive as well

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby StylinNProfilin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:13 am

I'm with BigZuck that taking a huge scholarship at a T14 probably is the best choice considering your debt level

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untar614
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby untar614 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:23 am

BigZuck wrote:Still voting for DAT MORDECAI (or the equivalent). Same debt level as if you went to UT but much greater shot at big law. I would think almost guaranteed with Texas ties and the weight of a named scholarship on your resume assuming you actually snagged one.

StylinNProfilin wrote:I'm with BigZuck that taking a huge scholarship at a T14 probably is the best choice considering your debt level


If you do decide to reapply and try this, shoot me a PM. I had a nice 1-on-1 conversation with Dean Hoye (of Duke) and might be able to relay some info from that which may be useful for Duke. I also got a full-ride at Northwestern, so may be able to speculate on the beyond-the-numbers aspects that helped.

Total Litigator
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Total Litigator » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:57 am

lol at the poll.

Almost 200 votes in and the poll is still essentially 50 - 50.

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Br3v
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Br3v » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:37 pm

Go to Harvard.
Don't look back.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:21 pm

thisiswater wrote:I don't know what city you are in, but if it's Dallas there seem to be a ton of paralegal jobs open right now for some reason and all of them would give you the opportunity to see what big law looks like from the inside and pay down your debt. I'd work for a year or two and come back to this. It'll make your app more attractive as well


OP seems to be of the (probably correct) opinion that getting off the WL at H is a one time opportunity

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Suits99
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby Suits99 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:08 am

If you don't go to Harvard you will always wonder what your life could have been if you did. You never know, you could be the next Harvey Specter.
UT is an awesome school though as well, not the worst situation to be in, goodluck!

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:13 pm

Suits99 wrote:If you don't go to Harvard you will always wonder what your life could have been if you did. You never know, you could be the next Harvey Specter.
UT is an awesome school though as well, not the worst situation to be in, goodluck!


While I appreciate the reference, not only is Harvey not a real person, more importantly, he graduated with 0 debt because pearson&hardman pays his way. this is just about as far removed from OP's condition as possible. Also, as if it needed to be any clearer, never base your life on TV.

Who's pumped for season 3, July 16th!!

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:15 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
thisiswater wrote:I don't know what city you are in, but if it's Dallas there seem to be a ton of paralegal jobs open right now for some reason and all of them would give you the opportunity to see what big law looks like from the inside and pay down your debt. I'd work for a year or two and come back to this. It'll make your app more attractive as well


OP seems to be of the (probably correct) opinion that getting off the WL at H is a one time opportunity


Yea I agree, except that the reason OP would not get in to Harvard off the WL again is because with a little WE, he would get into Harvard normally. The reason OP was WL'd with a 174/3.8 in the first place was probably his age and inexperience. Those are median lock numbers.

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby StylinNProfilin » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:17 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Suits99 wrote:If you don't go to Harvard you will always wonder what your life could have been if you did. You never know, you could be the next Harvey Specter.
UT is an awesome school though as well, not the worst situation to be in, goodluck!


While I appreciate the reference, not only is Harvey not a real person, more importantly, he graduated with 0 debt because pearson&hardman pays his way. this is just about as far removed from OP's condition as possible. Also, as if it needed to be any clearer, never base your life on TV.

Who's pumped for season 3, July 16th!!


Didnt he transition from the DA to biglaw partner? That's gotta have like a .001% chance of happening

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:20 pm

StylinNProfilin wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Suits99 wrote:If you don't go to Harvard you will always wonder what your life could have been if you did. You never know, you could be the next Harvey Specter.
UT is an awesome school though as well, not the worst situation to be in, goodluck!


While I appreciate the reference, not only is Harvey not a real person, more importantly, he graduated with 0 debt because pearson&hardman pays his way. this is just about as far removed from OP's condition as possible. Also, as if it needed to be any clearer, never base your life on TV.

Who's pumped for season 3, July 16th!!


Didnt he transition from the DA to biglaw partner? That's gotta have like a .001% chance of happening


true. broke ass legal assistant in the mailroom -> harvard law for free -> sketchy DA's office -> junior partner after a couple years -> senior partner after another couple years. totally realistic

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jselson
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jselson » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:50 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
thisiswater wrote:I don't know what city you are in, but if it's Dallas there seem to be a ton of paralegal jobs open right now for some reason and all of them would give you the opportunity to see what big law looks like from the inside and pay down your debt. I'd work for a year or two and come back to this. It'll make your app more attractive as well


OP seems to be of the (probably correct) opinion that getting off the WL at H is a one time opportunity


Yea I agree, except that the reason OP would not get in to Harvard off the WL again is because with a little WE, he would get into Harvard normally. The reason OP was WL'd with a 174/3.8 in the first place was probably his age and inexperience. Those are median lock numbers.


I was surprised because of the GPA, but myLSN shows OP getting into HLS 2/3's of the time. WE might genuinely be an issue. Idk, a 66% chance of getting in is anything BUT a lock, yet it's a real gamble. I also don't think the OP's a lock for a full-scholarship in the T14, although he has a good shot. It just sucks that every option has just a little bit more risk than a lot of folks would be comfortable with. But if OP is relatively frugal and guns Texas BigLaw from Harvard, he won't be living the models and bottles life for a decade with $400,000 in debt, but he'll still be living more comfortably than most Americans. And because the OP's likely to get Texas BigLaw straight out of HLS, the opportunity cost is a little different, because you have to factor in losing a year at 160k. Full-tuition and interest is 180k at Duke, so with even a full-scholarship and let's say 25k income after taxes, the OP really only comes out 45k ahead in short-term earnings. Not a small number, but not a huge one either.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:20 pm

jselson wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
thisiswater wrote:I don't know what city you are in, but if it's Dallas there seem to be a ton of paralegal jobs open right now for some reason and all of them would give you the opportunity to see what big law looks like from the inside and pay down your debt. I'd work for a year or two and come back to this. It'll make your app more attractive as well


OP seems to be of the (probably correct) opinion that getting off the WL at H is a one time opportunity


Yea I agree, except that the reason OP would not get in to Harvard off the WL again is because with a little WE, he would get into Harvard normally. The reason OP was WL'd with a 174/3.8 in the first place was probably his age and inexperience. Those are median lock numbers.


I was surprised because of the GPA, but myLSN shows OP getting into HLS 2/3's of the time. WE might genuinely be an issue. Idk, a 66% chance of getting in is anything BUT a lock, yet it's a real gamble. I also don't think the OP's a lock for a full-scholarship in the T14, although he has a good shot. It just sucks that every option has just a little bit more risk than a lot of folks would be comfortable with. But if OP is relatively frugal and guns Texas BigLaw from Harvard, he won't be living the models and bottles life for a decade with $400,000 in debt, but he'll still be living more comfortably than most Americans. And because the OP's likely to get Texas BigLaw straight out of HLS, the opportunity cost is a little different, because you have to factor in losing a year at 160k. Full-tuition and interest is 180k at Duke, so with even a full-scholarship and let's say 25k income after taxes, the OP really only comes out 45k ahead in short-term earnings. Not a small number, but not a huge one either.


Yea, I'm not saying OP should necessarily take the year off from an opportunity cost standpoint, but to say for a 174/3.8 that getting into Harvard is a once in a lifetime deal is just wrong given that those numbers usually get in to harvard.

Also, you might be looking at LSN data from previous cycles, which is deceptive given the significant drop in applications.

Look at this years' cycle. Using 174 LSAT with 3.79-3.83, all 8 applicants in that range were admitted (for 3.79-3.81, its 6/6 admitted). These days, those stats, if not "lock", are extremely likely. A WL is a clear result IMO of non-numerical and less quantifiable weaknesses, i.e., k-jd or worse, graduating early from college, less rigorous UG, ect. the WL's at Harvard this year for people with these numbers and higher all had some non-numerical explanation.

In short, applying with a 174/3.8 with some WE and halfway decent LoRs and softs should be admitted to Harvard if next cycle is anything like this one (or even less competitive).

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard Sticker v. Texas Full-Ride

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:44 am

Bump for the OP to tell us his actual final decision. Today is the Harvard deadline correct?




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