UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

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PDaddy
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby PDaddy » Sun May 19, 2013 11:03 pm

sublime wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
onionskin wrote:Heart says Hastings, head says UW for prestige (it's a psychological thing) and what I assume is a much better job market (basically all of WA and OR with no real schools to compete with). Does anyone know what it is like to move sideways into the CA legal market (again DA etc) from another state?

I should probably add that going to Hastings would involve staying at home (no rent) and lots of family/social support nearby. I have never lived in nor been to Seattle. I don't know how much those things matter for law school.

As for debt, well. I'll leave that up to your imaginations. At the end of the day all I really want is an honest breakdown of differences between these three schools to help me make a choice, not discouragement or a lesson in responsible financial planning.

Tally so far:
Ranking doesn't matter = 1
Go to school where you want to work = 1

Any more?


Why not work in Seattle? Seattle has criminals but a lower crime rate, and a comparatively smooth-running D.A.'s office. UW is easily the superior law school, and you could theoretically get work in NorCal as a UW graduate; it will just take more networking. If it isn't a weather or family connections issue, you might want to consider Seattle further.

Clean; beautiful scenery and four real seasons; modern; great health care; a wide variety of top entertainment options (theater/opera, shopping, live music scene, restaurants and bars); all five major pro sports (once the Sonics and Metropolitans return); comparatively lower in crime; top colleges and universities locally (UW ranked as one of the top-50 or 60 in the world); great schools for kids; Seattle people are more more genuine, less superficial; more wealth per capita; eight Fortune-500 companies headquartered in Seattle-area; second-most degreed city in the U.S. (behind Washington, D.C.); recession-proof region (people here have jobs!); far less pollution; far more environmental consciousness; springs & summers are amazingly beautiful, and can reach 100 degrees; "Indian summers" are frequent; located near skiing; located 2-3 hours from either Portland or Vancouver, B.C. (Which is a very international city).

Downsides: rains more than NorCal; transportation/traffic can be a headache at times; lack of true racial diversity (mostly white with a sizable Asian community, fewer blacks and even fewer Latinos and American-Indians/"Native Americans")

For overall quality of life, Seattle is extremely hard to beat, my friends.


And all of those reasons are why it is hard to get a job there. People want to work there. Fuck, I know I would love to.


But at the same time, wouldn't you rather fight for a job in Seattle than in Cali? I have seen Hastings and UC Davis; you are much better off at UW. Besides, UW grads can work in California with the right connections. You should look into the clerkship opportunities at the schools and factor that into your decision.

I'd rather be jobless in Seattle than in the Bay Area any day of the week.

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PDaddy
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby PDaddy » Sun May 19, 2013 11:03 pm

sublime wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
onionskin wrote:Heart says Hastings, head says UW for prestige (it's a psychological thing) and what I assume is a much better job market (basically all of WA and OR with no real schools to compete with). Does anyone know what it is like to move sideways into the CA legal market (again DA etc) from another state?

I should probably add that going to Hastings would involve staying at home (no rent) and lots of family/social support nearby. I have never lived in nor been to Seattle. I don't know how much those things matter for law school.

As for debt, well. I'll leave that up to your imaginations. At the end of the day all I really want is an honest breakdown of differences between these three schools to help me make a choice, not discouragement or a lesson in responsible financial planning.

Tally so far:
Ranking doesn't matter = 1
Go to school where you want to work = 1

Any more?


Why not work in Seattle? Seattle has criminals but a lower crime rate, and a comparatively smooth-running D.A.'s office. UW is easily the superior law school, and you could theoretically get work in NorCal as a UW graduate; it will just take more networking. If it isn't a weather or family connections issue, you might want to consider Seattle further.

Clean; beautiful scenery and four real seasons; modern; great health care; a wide variety of top entertainment options (theater/opera, shopping, live music scene, restaurants and bars); all five major pro sports (once the Sonics and Metropolitans return); comparatively lower in crime; top colleges and universities locally (UW ranked as one of the top-50 or 60 in the world); great schools for kids; Seattle people are more more genuine, less superficial; more wealth per capita; eight Fortune-500 companies headquartered in Seattle-area; second-most degreed city in the U.S. (behind Washington, D.C.); recession-proof region (people here have jobs!); far less pollution; far more environmental consciousness; springs & summers are amazingly beautiful, and can reach 100 degrees; "Indian summers" are frequent; located near skiing; located 2-3 hours from either Portland or Vancouver, B.C. (Which is a very international city).

Downsides: rains more than NorCal; transportation/traffic can be a headache at times; lack of true racial diversity (mostly white with a sizable Asian community, fewer blacks and even fewer Latinos and American-Indians/"Native Americans")

For overall quality of life, Seattle is extremely hard to beat, my friends.


And all of those reasons are why it is hard to get a job there. People want to work there. Fuck, I know I would love to.


But at the same time, wouldn't you rather fight for a job in Seattle than in Cali? I have seen Hastings and UC Davis; you are much better off at UW. Besides, UW grads can work in California with the right connections. You should look into the clerkship opportunities at the schools and factor that into your decision.

I'd rather be jobless in Seattle than in the Bay Area any day of the week.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Tue May 21, 2013 12:15 pm

I don't really get it; Hastings appears to have "better" (more variety and of greater interest) clinics but Davis better externships. Difference? Externship is like a real job/work experience that you have to find yourself and then get credit for; clinics are hands-on/experiential classes?

Also, Hastings's first semester seems to be much shorter than Davis's is that at all important?

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Borhas
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Borhas » Tue May 21, 2013 12:22 pm

onionskin wrote:I don't really get it; Hastings appears to have "better" (more variety and of greater interest) clinics but Davis better externships. Difference? Externship is like a real job/work experience that you have to find yourself and then get credit for; clinics are hands-on/experiential classes?

Also, Hastings's first semester seems to be much shorter than Davis's is that at all important?


Externship and clinics are the basically the same thing I think

The crim clinic at Hastings means you work full time at a Bay Area PD or DA office, though Hasting's crim clinic is its most intensive clinic (12 credits)

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 21, 2013 12:29 pm

Borhas wrote:
onionskin wrote:I don't really get it; Hastings appears to have "better" (more variety and of greater interest) clinics but Davis better externships. Difference? Externship is like a real job/work experience that you have to find yourself and then get credit for; clinics are hands-on/experiential classes?

Also, Hastings's first semester seems to be much shorter than Davis's is that at all important?


Externship and clinics are the basically the same thing I think

The crim clinic at Hastings means you work full time at a Bay Area PD or DA office, though Hasting's crim clinic is its most intensive clinic (12 credits)


This isn't true at all schools. At most law schools, clinics are run by university professors who have contacts to local employers or gov agencies. You still have a prof advising you, grading you, ect. Externships are when you spend time away from campus working with a gov agency, judge, or firm under their oversight. Feels different to me.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Tue May 21, 2013 11:04 pm

They do sound different, and Hastings is in front by a horse's whisker because the crim law clinic and LfA mean I get to do exactly what I want. At the same time LfA is kind of daunting because it means I'll lose the entire 3L to study frivolous courses like maritime law or whatever, you know, in the pursuit of knowledge etc.

ETA: Just to double check here, no one in this thread has actually supported UC Davis the institution have they? There's been some passionate support for Davis the town, but I don't recall anyone speaking positively about the school at all.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 21, 2013 11:25 pm

onionskin wrote:They do sound different, and Hastings is in front by a horse's whisker because the crim law clinic and LfA mean I get to do exactly what I want. At the same time LfA is kind of daunting because it means I'll lose the entire 3L to study frivolous courses like maritime law or whatever, you know, in the pursuit of knowledge etc.

ETA: Just to double check here, no one in this thread has actually supported UC Davis the institution have they? There's been some passionate support for Davis the town, but I don't recall anyone speaking positively about the school at all.



BigZuck wrote:+1 on Davis sucking. The whole Sacramento area is a wasteland of suck. I do think its the best option of these three though. UW is out because of ties and I believe Davis has slightly outplaced Hastings in the past couple of years (all thought maybe that's not true, I'm on my phone and too lazy to look up the LST stats. I know both are terrible anyway). Plus I don't think I've ever heard of a recent Hastings student/grad that was happy with their choice. They all seem miserable. I do know at least one Davis grad who had fun there. That's something at least.

But as always the answer is none of the above. The OP tried to trick the hivemind into thinking the parents are rich and therefore maybe he/she might hear some favorable echoes from the chamber to validate a poor choice. Even if the OP's parents were light money on fire just to watch it burn rich I think all are poor choices just because more likely than not the OP will have wasted 3 years of their life and not have a legal job to show for it.

OP-Retake or don't go. If you want to work in CA then go to a T14 or UCLA/USC. You have a sweet deal with the rich parents. Don't waste their money, put it toward a degree that will at least give you more than a 50% chance of not wasting three years of your life.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue May 21, 2013 11:29 pm

OP, Hastings is TTT.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Wed May 22, 2013 2:31 am

Well I'm waiting on UCLA, but in the mean time I should assume I won't get in and firm up my contingency with one of these three.

So just to muddy the water a little, given everything I've said in this post, UCLA would be my best option? I have read a few times that UCLA is still just a regional school and I'm not sure how it would bode for my chances of finding work in NorCal (eg, anything north of SLO).

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Micdiddy » Wed May 22, 2013 2:44 am

onionskin wrote:
ETA: Just to double check here, no one in this thread has actually supported UC Davis the institution have they? There's been some passionate support for Davis the town, but I don't recall anyone speaking positively about the school at all.


Jabagelboy did. But he's too much of an idealist.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby ChaseInk » Wed May 22, 2013 3:33 am

Dr. Dre wrote:No all of L.A is lame. It's like a third world country: you got these super rich people and very poor people.


I'm sure if the real Dr. Dre (who is from Compton) knew that you were hating on LA, he would give you a stern talking to.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed May 22, 2013 3:57 am

ChaseInk wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:No all of L.A is lame. It's like a third world country: you got these super rich people and very poor people.


I'm sure if the real Dr. Dre (who is from Compton) knew that you were hating on LA, he would give you a stern talking to.


bro you don't know shit what Dr. Dre thinks about L.A.

He doesn't laude it like he did in the 90s. Times change homie. Get up to date.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby unclepete » Wed May 22, 2013 11:57 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
ChaseInk wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:No all of L.A is lame. It's like a third world country: you got these super rich people and very poor people.


I'm sure if the real Dr. Dre (who is from Compton) knew that you were hating on LA, he would give you a stern talking to.


bro you don't know shit what Dr. Dre thinks about L.A.

He doesn't laude it like he did in the 90s. Times change homie. Get up to date.


Well, considering he just donated $70 million to USC....

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed May 22, 2013 4:07 pm

unclepete wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
ChaseInk wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:No all of L.A is lame. It's like a third world country: you got these super rich people and very poor people.


I'm sure if the real Dr. Dre (who is from Compton) knew that you were hating on LA, he would give you a stern talking to.


bro you don't know shit what Dr. Dre thinks about L.A.

He doesn't laude it like he did in the 90s. Times change homie. Get up to date.


Well, considering he just donated $70 million to USC....


Bro that's cause USC has meant a lot to him since he was in N.W.A. Reason? football program and the influence USC has over the ghettos of L.A. Dre respects THAT, but only THAT. He hates UCLA.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 22, 2013 4:11 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
onionskin wrote:
ETA: Just to double check here, no one in this thread has actually supported UC Davis the institution have they? There's been some passionate support for Davis the town, but I don't recall anyone speaking positively about the school at all.


Jabagelboy did. But he's too much of an idealist.


lol.

this is the path I so often must tread alone...

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Wed May 22, 2013 10:57 pm

Not true BigZuck is behind you too. ETA so is manofthehour

So that's two three for Davis, two for UW and the rest (begrudgingly) for Hastings?

Anyone know how I can track down people who have done the Lawyers for America program?

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby BigZuck » Thu May 23, 2013 7:40 am

onionskin wrote:Not true BigZuck is behind you too. ETA so is manofthehour

So that's two three for Davis, two for UW and the rest (begrudgingly) for Hastings?

Anyone know how I can track down people who have done the Lawyers for America program?


The Unemployment Line?

J/k I'm sure it's a wonderful program

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 23, 2013 12:50 pm

BigZuck wrote:
onionskin wrote:Not true BigZuck is behind you too. ETA so is manofthehour

So that's two three for Davis, two for UW and the rest (begrudgingly) for Hastings?

Anyone know how I can track down people who have done the Lawyers for America program?


The Unemployment Line?

J/k I'm sure it's a wonderful program


never heard of it. like TFA but for pro bono legal work?

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Thu May 23, 2013 1:12 pm

It's not pro bono they pay the DA or some PD office to hire you for two years (3L + 1) so you lose 3L for classes but you graduate with 9 mo work experience plus one year's guaranteed work you get three months holiday somewhere in between to chillax and take the bar. What I want to know is if they dump you after the two years is up and, if so, are the odds for employment any better?

Also, what's the deal with this Order of the Coif thing? If you do LfA you're no longer eligible (requires 75%+ of your credits to be classroom based, or something like that).


BigZuck...

--ImageRemoved--



ETA: Davis is now also doing something similar but it reads more like a fancy way of admitting they are simply hiring their own grads to boost post-graduation employment.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu May 23, 2013 1:16 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:Bro that's cause USC has meant a lot to him since he was in N.W.A. Reason? football program and the influence USC has over the ghettos of L.A. Dre respects THAT, but only THAT. He hates UCLA.


QFP.

USC is legit, even to the haterest of haters.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby RedGiant » Thu May 23, 2013 1:58 pm

onionskin wrote:Not true BigZuck is behind you too. ETA so is manofthehour

So that's two three for Davis, two for UW and the rest (begrudgingly) for Hastings?

Anyone know how I can track down people who have done the Lawyers for America program?


I went to Hastings' ASD in April. LFA is a Hastings-made-up program, so I'd contact Hastings and ask to be put in touch with some folks from it. The CSO head, Sari Zimmerman told us it was a pretty limited program as it just launched, but they had big plans for it.

Also, just FYI, I do know a bunch of Hastings and Davis grads (but I work in biglaw). Hastings grads, with a few exceptions, do not look back fondly on their time. The Davis folks seem a lot happier. All of them admit that they would not be able to get to biglaw now, given hiring (they were all top third, but not top decile). So...if you're biglaw or bust, I would know that you are closing doors by attending any of these schools unless you finish top 10% or they have a major swing in placement trends.

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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby onionskin » Thu May 23, 2013 11:21 pm

Do you know what it was about being at Hastings that did not give people fond memories?

Davis honestly seems like a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind the cycling and the market and the close proximity of female undergraduates and just the Davis Wiki has given me a pretty good impression of the place. It's also close enough to the American River that I could go paddling regularly. But I kind of hate small towns. I did a GIS for "Davis, California" and the results just made me want to cry.

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.

Postby Myself » Fri May 24, 2013 1:35 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Borhas
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Borhas » Fri May 24, 2013 2:34 am

onionskin wrote:Do you know what it was about being at Hastings that did not give people fond memories?

Davis honestly seems like a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind the cycling and the market and the close proximity of female undergraduates and just the Davis Wiki has given me a pretty good impression of the place. It's also close enough to the American River that I could go paddling regularly. But I kind of hate small towns. I did a GIS for "Davis, California" and the results just made me want to cry.


I really liked going to Hastings, fun times and good friends in an awesome city.

But yeah its a TTT just like Davis, and UW, a few people will get amazing jobs but about half will struggle hardcore coming out of the gate. The Bay Area is doing OK economically, but it's so highly desired that it is hyper competitive. Unless you are rich or something try something else.

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Clearly
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Re: UC Davis vs Hastings vs UW

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 2:42 am

TLS... Since when do we listen to these debt doesn't matter, retake off the table posts...




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