LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

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littleprince88
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LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby littleprince88 » Wed May 15, 2013 11:59 pm

So it's down to these two.

I have an offer for 54k at LLS. Stipulation is to stay about 3.2 gpa

Hastings got me off a waitlist and gave me 42K. No stipulations that I'm aware of.

I love both cities. Only thing really keeping me in LA (I live in Southern California) is proximity to family and stuff.

Hastings is obviously higher ranked...but their employment numbers are basically the same (dismal). No...i can't retake the LSAT. I took it three times already. I want to be a lawyer...I don't care where I end up...but if anyone can provide some sound advice, that'd be great. Thanks :)

californiauser
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby californiauser » Thu May 16, 2013 12:04 am

Can you post total COA for each school and what are your employment goals?

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dr123
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby dr123 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:05 am

retake/reapply or dont go.

Ti Malice
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Ti Malice » Thu May 16, 2013 12:30 am

If you won't retake, then don't go to law school. These are both objectively horrible choices. Both guarantee you more than $200K of non-dischargeable debt at graduation, and both offer you less than coin flip's chance at getting a full-time long-term job requiring bar passage. That's insanity.

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Mick Haller
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Mick Haller » Thu May 16, 2013 12:51 am

Ti Malice wrote:If you won't retake, then don't go to law school. These are both objectively horrible choices. Both guarantee you more than $200K of non-dischargeable debt at graduation, and both offer you less than coin flip's chance at getting a full-time long-term job requiring bar passage. That's insanity.


This. You are crazy to do either. 20% of Hastings' last class is FT employed at 80k+. Why gamble 200k debt on a 20% chance of being able to repay it? You will most likely regret this decision for the rest of your life.

<-- 2012 Hastings grad.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby WokeUpInACar » Thu May 16, 2013 2:46 am

My read is that you are bluffing and have not actually taken the LSAT three times.

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Micdiddy
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Micdiddy » Thu May 16, 2013 3:01 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:My read is that you are bluffing and have not actually taken the LSAT three times.


That's why this guy plays in the WSOP.
Good call Woke, IMO.
Op, I you won't listen to 5 people telling you the same thing, maybe you'll listen to the 6th. Neither of these options are good at all, and anyone who advises you go to one over the other is disingenous in the sense that they do not have your best interests at heart. If you want to make a bad choice, you don't need us, but if you want to make a good choice: retake or DON'T GO.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu May 16, 2013 3:46 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Clearly » Thu May 16, 2013 4:12 am

littleprince88 wrote: I want to be a lawyer...
Unfortunately going to law school =/= being a lawyer. Neither school gives you strong odds of being employed as a lawyer in that market. Its unfortunate, but in this economy, it's not enough to want to be a lawyer, you have to crush the LSAT to make it a worthy investment. Take time off and retake.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu May 16, 2013 9:03 am

Just don't go to lolschool

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North
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby North » Thu May 16, 2013 9:56 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
littleprince88 wrote: I want to be a lawyer...
Unfortunately going to law school =/= being a lawyer. Neither school gives you strong odds of being employed as a lawyer in that market. Its unfortunate, but in this economy, it's not enough to want to be a lawyer, you have to crush the LSAT to make it a worthy investment. Take time off and retake.

This is the credited response.

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hephaestus
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby hephaestus » Thu May 16, 2013 10:02 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:My read is that you are bluffing and have not actually taken the LSAT three times.

And even if OP is not bluffing, the answer is wait a year for eligibility for a fourth retake or don't go at all.

littleprince88
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby littleprince88 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:16 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:My read is that you are bluffing and have not actually taken the LSAT three times.


That's why this guy plays in the WSOP.
Good call Woke, IMO.
Op, I you won't listen to 5 people telling you the same thing, maybe you'll listen to the 6th. Neither of these options are good at all, and anyone who advises you go to one over the other is disingenous in the sense that they do not have your best interests at heart. If you want to make a bad choice, you don't need us, but if you want to make a good choice: retake or DON'T GO.



lol, no I have taken it three times. I'm indeed insane.

Listen, I really do appreciate everyone's opinion. I've definitely considered just waiting....and your reactions will make me take another look again. But just for the sake of argument, could anyone give at least on reason why you'd choose one school over the other.

I should add that I do have connections and a job is lined up should I not be able to find a job on my own.

I'm not bluffing...this is for real.

edit: I forgot to make "times" plural. I'm soo...sorry.

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unclepete
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby unclepete » Thu May 16, 2013 12:22 pm

Ok, ok. Is the Hastings offer per year or total? Because from what I know about them, they only offer money year by year.

COL is cheaper in LA. Yes, it's still expensive. But SF is arguably equal to/more expensive than NYC these days, so there's that. Will you be taking everything out in loans? Do you have savings/family help/SO help? Do you have family close enough to downtown LA that you could live with rent-free?

Basically, what's the total COA for each?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu May 16, 2013 12:27 pm

this is why I'm against going to lawl school in california: COL is too expensive.

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unclepete
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby unclepete » Thu May 16, 2013 12:52 pm

Share a studio. East of the 405

bruin91
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby bruin91 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:56 pm

If you really have a job lined up, go wherever COA is lower.

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Mick Haller
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Mick Haller » Thu May 16, 2013 1:30 pm

bruin91 wrote:If you really have a job lined up, go wherever COA is lower.


Which would be Pacific or Chapman or something. OP is making foolish choices.

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hephaestus
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby hephaestus » Thu May 16, 2013 1:41 pm

Mick Haller wrote:
bruin91 wrote:If you really have a job lined up, go wherever COA is lower.


Which would be Pacific or Chapman or something. OP is making foolish choices.

Yes. If OP actually has a job lined up, he should just go to a TTT for a low price and not squander six figures on Hastings or LLS.

littleprince88
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby littleprince88 » Thu May 16, 2013 2:17 pm

unclepete wrote:Ok, ok. Is the Hastings offer per year or total? Because from what I know about them, they only offer money year by year.

COL is cheaper in LA. Yes, it's still expensive. But SF is arguably equal to/more expensive than NYC these days, so there's that. Will you be taking everything out in loans? Do you have savings/family help/SO help? Do you have family close enough to downtown LA that you could live with rent-free?

Basically, what's the total COA for each?


Living in LA would be cheaper...but I think any savings in rent would be offset by car/gas expenses.

Hastings aid is over three years.

I'll be getting about 1k a month from parents. So that's $30k over the three years.

Looking through both schools COA figures on their websites, they seem pretty even.

ImNoScar wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:
bruin91 wrote:If you really have a job lined up, go wherever COA is lower.


Which would be Pacific or Chapman or something. OP is making foolish choices.

Yes. If OP actually has a job lined up, he should just go to a TTT for a low price and not squander six figures on Hastings or LLS.


This is still an option I guess if they're still taking applications. I'll look into it.

littleprince88
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby littleprince88 » Thu May 16, 2013 2:20 pm

Question: Is there no point in thinking long term?

Yes, I need a job out of school. That's number 1. But in the long term would any of these schools benefit more?

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unclepete
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby unclepete » Thu May 16, 2013 2:33 pm

1k per month from your parents is no small thing. If you use this right, it could be your rent + transportation in LA.

Hastings and LLS both have very large class sizes, the biggest in CA I believe (~350 each). This, of course, translates to a larger alumni network. LLS' is concentrated in So Cal, Hastings in Nor Cal. I suppose that's an argument for these two versus Chapman or Pacific. I mean, as if you needed convincing not to go to Pacific (Sac....really?)

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Mick Haller
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby Mick Haller » Thu May 16, 2013 2:43 pm

Alumni network does not matter if you have a job lined up already. And this is a small factor in any event.

If I had connections and a job waiting for me, I would literally go to the cheapest school in California. Even if that means an unaccredited law school like Monterey or San Joaquin.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu May 16, 2013 2:51 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

littleprince88
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Re: LOYOLA (IN CA) v. UC HASTINGS

Postby littleprince88 » Thu May 16, 2013 3:12 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
How strong are these connections? If you truly have a guaranteed job, I still wouldn't go to law school unless it was a job that paid more and had better working conditions than your current job.


My current job pays 20k a year...anything would be better than this.

Connections are strong. One attorney has been a family friend for thirty years. My dad helped him get started. He has a small practice and knows a lot of people. Also another family friend who started an org that helps people of color who go to law school.

Mick Haller wrote:Alumni network does not matter if you have a job lined up already. And this is a small factor in any event.

If I had connections and a job waiting for me, I would literally go to the cheapest school in California. Even if that means an unaccredited law school like Monterey or San Joaquin.


Yeah but I'm a proud arrogant fuck and that is just...out of the question. Not that Hastings or lls are HYS, but still.

I get you've been through all of this already, so I really do appreciate your candor. Considering the odds you beat, I do take your advice seriously.




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