Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 15, 2013 4:54 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:damn, just lost a lot of respect for you BigZuck, not cause your calling me out bro, but for actually putting forward that UCLA/USC at the prices you listed are good investments. You could have been the next rad lulz, but obviously you don't have it in you.


I love Zuck, but no one could be rad lulz. he keeps it real like no one else

BigZuck
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby BigZuck » Wed May 15, 2013 4:59 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:damn, just lost a lot of respect for you BigZuck, not cause your calling me out bro, but for actually putting forward that UCLA/USC at the prices you listed are good investments. You could have been the next rad lulz, but obviously you don't have it in you.


I love Zuck, but no one could be rad lulz. he keeps it real like no one else


+1 to all this. Also, Dre, you make me :)

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romothesavior
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:WTF? comparing me to brucewayne, you're out of your mind, homie.

I specialize in three things: UCI, pencils, and california. That's my specialty. So when you call me out, label me as a troll, on my fucking specialty, bro you're the one who should be careful.


Your "specialty" has been derailing on-topic threads by being an awful poster. You've been warned about it many times. Your specialty is going to be "sitting on the sidelines during an extended TLS timeout" if I stumble into another thread that you've derailed. I mean, JFC, at least be funny or something.

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KD35
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby KD35 » Thu May 16, 2013 4:10 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:OP, are you retaking this June? I just realized that we are numbers twins.


I've been half-assed planning on it. But I've also been half-assed prepping as it will make little difference this cycle. The idea would be to try to gain a full scholly at LLS or to know in advance of foregoing this year as to whether I stand a good shot at a rankings jump next year.

However, if I decide to definitvely wait a year I might save the retake for Dec. in case Oct. doesn't work out. I'm quite sure I won't max out by June, so it would likely be a waste of a retake.


Yea if you really want to do better in another cycle then you need to not half ass it. Only get a couple retake opportunities, no sense wasting it now. Study hard for October, and if in September you are not consistently scoring significantly higher, then I would just wait to take it then in December. It sucks, but this is kinda late to start looking at this stuff. Then again, you could avoid all of that and go next year which sounds like a bad idea from everyone else.

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Clearly
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby Clearly » Thu May 16, 2013 4:53 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:
goldbh7 wrote:You already know the right answer...


Yup. It has taken me a considerable amount of time to be even remotely happy about it, though. Lol.



Hey man, I read your post and could relate so it's worth a shot. I took a prep course, studied very diligently, and scored a 164 last year. Knew there were points to be had, and took the year off. I'm not inclined to tell you everyone jumps enough to hit the goal, but I figured if I took enough time to really master the test, I could put myself in a much better position. BP is a great program but you know there is more work to be done to master the test. I ended up taking two years off and studied on and off for 9 months, really busting my ass on the test beyond the few months required by a prep course, and jumped 12 points on a retake. Yes the data suggest most people won't jump more then 2-3, but at the end of the day you know deep down there is nothing between you and a 170 except a better knowledge of how to handle these multiple choice questions. With your GPA a retake is in order, but having expressed that you didn't tank this test and never did all that much better then your score means you need to work harder than an average retake. You need to take every PT, review everything in detail, read every book etc. If you put the work in, you are just as capable to hit 170+ as anyone else. Your post suggests you understand the risk associated with going with where you are now, so I'm inclined to think you understand what a significant jump can do for you.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 8:37 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
goldbh7 wrote:You already know the right answer...


Yup. It has taken me a considerable amount of time to be even remotely happy about it, though. Lol.



Hey man, I read your post and could relate so it's worth a shot. I took a prep course, studied very diligently, and scored a 164 last year. Knew there were points to be had, and took the year off. I'm not inclined to tell you everyone jumps enough to hit the goal, but I figured if I took enough time to really master the test, I could put myself in a much better position. BP is a great program but you know there is more work to be done to master the test. I ended up taking two years off and studied on and off for 9 months, really busting my ass on the test beyond the few months required by a prep course, and jumped 12 points on a retake. Yes the data suggest most people won't jump more then 2-3, but at the end of the day you know deep down there is nothing between you and a 170 except a better knowledge of how to handle these multiple choice questions. With your GPA a retake is in order, but having expressed that you didn't tank this test and never did all that much better then your score means you need to work harder than an average retake. You need to take every PT, review everything in detail, read every book etc. If you put the work in, you are just as capable to hit 170+ as anyone else. Your post suggests you understand the risk associated with going with where you are now, so I'm inclined to think you understand what a significant jump can do for you.


Right. It would really suck to wind up in about the same spot and be applying next cycle. This is sure to spark a harsh reaction ITT, but I wonder if I might be better served just putting a very concentrated effort into 1L. I know transferring is a gamble and law school grades are said to be largely luck, though. Waiting a year is just so not appealing.

Thank you for the encouragement, though. And congrats on your score jump! That is awesome!

I do know there are more points to be had.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby northwood » Thu May 16, 2013 8:43 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:Right. It would really suck to wind up in about the same spot and be applying next cycle. This is sure to spark a harsh reaction ITT, but I wonder if I might be better served just putting a very concentrated effort into 1L. I know transferring is a gamble and law school grades are said to be largely luck, though. Waiting a year is just so not appealing.

Thank you for the encouragement, though. And congrats on your score jump! That is awesome!

I do know there are more points to be had.


its much easier and cost effective to wait a year, get the points you need and then either go to either of these schools with a better scholarship offer, or go to another school. Would you rather wait a year and end up in a better result, or rush into 1L, hit median or below, and either be faced with dropping out, or having a lot of debt to deal with???

the thought of going to a school knowing that there are more points to be had should not be appealing.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 8:45 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Danteshek wrote:It seems to me very unlikely you'll get a high enough score on a retake that'll get you into USC/UCLA or higher.... I assume you understand the unemployment/underemployment risk you are taking... And that you are not a special snowflake... And that everything will probably not be okay.... But yeah, whatever. Go.

LLS '12

This is blatantly false. 5 points and he's in at USC. While USC isn't at sticker is rough it's better than a 90k scholarship to loyola. You would have a realistic shot at big law that makes the extra 90k worth it. It's still probably a non-wise move playing the odds, but if you get 8 more points you're looking at 90k from USC. That's just so much better than your current situation. Your admissions choice, and 1L will set the stage for much of your future. Don't fuck it up. There's a reason Phil Jackson won't coach the Bobcats. That logic applies here too.


How often does a retaker make a 5-point improvement? If he's lucky he'll improve 2-3 points, not 5.
http://lawschooli.com/lsat-retake-score ... -averages/

1.) The general population is lazy as hell, particularly our age group with the "college experience" and "you can be anything" rather than "you can work to be anything." Also, a large percentage of even law students approach studying in an idiotic fashion. These are the smart ones, mind you. I personally know and tutored people who improved 15 plus points. OP may not have the capacity to hit a 180, but few do, myself included. However, no incompetents hit a 162. He has untapped potential. He's in point per question territory. 2 more right per section, he's at 168-170.


Thanks for this.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby BigZuck » Thu May 16, 2013 8:47 am

Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 8:48 am

northwood wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:Right. It would really suck to wind up in about the same spot and be applying next cycle. This is sure to spark a harsh reaction ITT, but I wonder if I might be better served just putting a very concentrated effort into 1L. I know transferring is a gamble and law school grades are said to be largely luck, though. Waiting a year is just so not appealing.

Thank you for the encouragement, though. And congrats on your score jump! That is awesome!

I do know there are more points to be had.


its much easier and cost effective to wait a year, get the points you need and then either go to either of these schools with a better scholarship offer, or go to another school. Would you rather wait a year and end up in a better result, or rush into 1L, hit median or below, and either be faced with dropping out, or having a lot of debt to deal with???

the thought of going to a school knowing that there are more points to be had should not be appealing.


That is situation also. It is hard to make the decision to go this year knowing it could be remarkably better next year.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 8:55 am

BigZuck wrote:Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.


Right. Knowing it will almost definitely be sticker as 2l after a transfer is indeed part of the calculus towards retaking. If I fail to make the gain this will all be a waste of time, though. But I do hear what you're saying about banking on median. I really didn't push that hard in ug and did ok. With a considerable effort I tend to do stellar (not bragging, just sayin).

The question is really whether or not I will actually have the time and drive to beat my head with the LSAT for another ~4 months.

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby Danteshek » Thu May 16, 2013 9:07 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.


Right. Knowing it will almost definitely be sticker as 2l after a transfer is indeed part of the calculus towards retaking. If I fail to make the gain this will all be a waste of time, though. But I do hear what you're saying about banking on median. I really didn't push that hard in ug and did ok. With a considerable effort I tend to do stellar (not bragging, just sayin).

The question is really whether or not I will actually have the time and drive to beat my head with the LSAT for another ~4 months.


Oh really? Tell me about a time you did "stellar". Your post basically says you're too lazy to retake the LSAT. This suggests that you will be too lazy to do well in law school.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu May 16, 2013 9:10 am

OP, so you're saying you may not have the time to study? Do you have a job or something atm?

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 9:32 am

Danteshek wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.


Right. Knowing it will almost definitely be sticker as 2l after a transfer is indeed part of the calculus towards retaking. If I fail to make the gain this will all be a waste of time, though. But I do hear what you're saying about banking on median. I really didn't push that hard in ug and did ok. With a considerable effort I tend to do stellar (not bragging, just sayin).

The question is really whether or not I will actually have the time and drive to beat my head with the LSAT for another ~4 months.



Oh really? Tell me about a time you did "stellar". Your post basically says you're too lazy to retake the LSAT. This suggests that you will be too lazy to do well in law school.


Without getting into specifics, there were courses and quarters that I pushed harder and destroyed; there was also at least one (summer 2012) that I spent considerable time doing other things. My approach has largely been a casual stroll through the quarter followed by a sprint at the end. I've read a number of threads and books on LS prep and am revising the strategy to a "marathon" approach for LS.

I had also been out of school for a bit before returning UG and felt like I was just hitting my stride towards the end. Carrying my more consistent last quarter study habits into LS will be productive. Extending my end of quarter rush to a more consistent semester long effort, I believe, will yield good results. Also, I took a course in ug that involved case studying, briefing (of sorts) and had IRAC exams (this was one of the stellar classes and, yes, I realize LS will still be a degree more difficult). That method of study/exam seems to jive with me. I believe I will do well in LS, despite where I attend.

And yes, to Dre, I'll have to work this year as well, which gives me pause in thinking i'll have enough time to dedicate to see 8+ on the LSat.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 16, 2013 9:48 am

OP, no offense but I wish we had 300 of your personality type in my school. You rationalize laziness and assume if you put in a fraction as much of the work as your peers you'll outdo them despite objective evidence. In other words, it's an absolute treat to be on a bell curve with you. You'd be doing your classmates and LLS a big favor by starting this year. Just make sure to cran the night before the test, and all data points to valedictorian.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby hephaestus » Thu May 16, 2013 9:51 am

The idea that you can just "push yourself" to get better grades is a persistent lie that has led many people to trap schools and a lifetime of non-dischargable debt.
Hard work =/= good grades.
Retake the LSAT or do not go to law school.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 10:11 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:OP, no offense but I wish we had 300 of your personality type in my school. You rationalize laziness and assume if you put in a fraction as much of the work as your peers you'll outdo them despite objective evidence. In other words, it's an absolute treat to be on a bell curve with you. You'd be doing your classmates and LLS a big favor by starting this year. Just make sure to cran the night before the test, and all data points to valedictorian.


I'm intersted in study tips, but I've tried to make it clear that cramming is not the plan for LS and that I recognize good grades result from the marathon and not the sprint.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu May 16, 2013 10:25 am

To put it nicely, your law-related classes you took in UG were worth nothing but a waste of time...

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby timbs4339 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:06 pm

OP, take it from someone who's been there. EVERYONE has some rationalization for why they didn't do as well as they'd hoped in UG, and it usually sounds similar to yours. I thought the same thing, and within 3 weeks of the first day of school I was back to my old habits. Luckily, I had knocked the LSAT out of the park and gone to a school where even a below median student could get a good job. I took me that year to realize that I just do not like school and do not take it seriously.

It would be a really bad idea to simply assume that you're going to take a different approach to school because this is law school.

Also what Scar said. LS is a whole different beast and too much studying can often be ineffective or even counterproductive.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 16, 2013 12:08 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.


Right. Knowing it will almost definitely be sticker as 2l after a transfer is indeed part of the calculus towards retaking. If I fail to make the gain this will all be a waste of time, though. But I do hear what you're saying about banking on median. I really didn't push that hard in ug and did ok. With a considerable effort I tend to do stellar (not bragging, just sayin).

The question is really whether or not I will actually have the time and drive to beat my head with the LSAT for another ~4 months.

This is just ridiculous.

You know, lot of people decide not to retake out of laziness and arrogance. I'm starting to see a whole lot of both in your posts.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu May 16, 2013 12:18 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Without getting into specifics, there were courses and quarters that I pushed harder and destroyed; there was also at least one (summer 2012) that I spent considerable time doing other things. My approach has largely been a casual stroll through the quarter followed by a sprint at the end. I've read a number of threads and books on LS prep and am revising the strategy to a "marathon" approach for LS.

I had also been out of school for a bit before returning UG and felt like I was just hitting my stride towards the end. Carrying my more consistent last quarter study habits into LS will be productive. Extending my end of quarter rush to a more consistent semester long effort, I believe, will yield good results. Also, I took a course in ug that involved case studying, briefing (of sorts) and had IRAC exams (this was one of the stellar classes and, yes, I realize LS will still be a degree more difficult). That method of study/exam seems to jive with me. I believe I will do well in LS, despite where I attend.

And yes, to Dre, I'll have to work this year as well, which gives me pause in thinking i'll have enough time to dedicate to see 8+ on the LSat.


I read in "Getting to Maybe," IRAC students tend to end up median. You're not in good shape if that's the approach. Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm a 0L.

Also, everyone and their moms destroy the latter course of their college careers. You're one of them. I'm one of them. It's called being a freshman and sophomore in college. Girls, booze, freedom. My GPA and career was the last thing I thought about. We're not unique. When you get to law school, more likely than not, everyone will be gunning for the same thing as you.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby timbs4339 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:21 pm

Of course you also have to watch out for trying to predict everyone else's behavior too "well, X% of the class are dumb, spoiled rich kids, and I scored higher on the LSAT than Y% of the class, and of course Z% are URMs who don't do well, and A% are PI/gov't people who don't try as hard" and sooner or later you've excluded 2/3 of the class from competition. It just doesn't work like that.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 12:29 pm

romothesavior wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Doing one year at Loyola doesn't really get you anywhere closer to your goal if you end up un/underemployed at the end, which is more likely than not. You have to assume you will end up at median whereever you go. Because what do you really have that says otherwise? You don't have a stellar GPA or LSAT score all things considered, so it's not like you knocked it out of the park in college or on the LSAT. Why would law school be any different? Not to mention studying and doing well on one test is a lot easier then doing so on 6+. Plus wherever you transfer to would be at sticker, which is no bueno for most schools.

I'm really not trying to be overly negative here, just saying that I don't think that plan is anywhere near as good as just retaking.


Right. Knowing it will almost definitely be sticker as 2l after a transfer is indeed part of the calculus towards retaking. If I fail to make the gain this will all be a waste of time, though. But I do hear what you're saying about banking on median. I really didn't push that hard in ug and did ok. With a considerable effort I tend to do stellar (not bragging, just sayin).

The question is really whether or not I will actually have the time and drive to beat my head with the LSAT for another ~4 months.

This is just ridiculous.

You know, lot of people decide not to retake out of laziness and arrogance. I'm starting to see a whole lot of both in your posts.


Interesting observation. Please do elaborate.

Also, there comes a point when threads tend to deviate from attaining posts that are constructive to drawing obnoxious posts that are more likely designed to satisfy the ego of the poster, by way of presenting a moral high ground or assuming intellectual superiority, than actually contributing something useful to the discussion.

I'm actually surprised it took 3 pages to get to this point and thanks to all of the helpful posters earlier ITT. I'd like to say I expected better of a mod, but that's not really the truth.

Edit:
To be fair and despite your lack of grace in making such a statement, I can see how you'd get that. However, it is also reasonable that after having invested considerable time in the Lsat some folks are ready to move on and may actually be close to max. Moreover, while a gain is without question possible, investing 8 hours daily between now and Oct/Dec is not eactly feasible. Even then it is not a guarantee. Reapplying next cycle with similar numbers only to be faced with the same prospects, unless I decide then to not go, is unquestionably a worse position to be in.
Last edited by CO2016YEAH on Thu May 16, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby CO2016YEAH » Thu May 16, 2013 12:31 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Without getting into specifics, there were courses and quarters that I pushed harder and destroyed; there was also at least one (summer 2012) that I spent considerable time doing other things. My approach has largely been a casual stroll through the quarter followed by a sprint at the end. I've read a number of threads and books on LS prep and am revising the strategy to a "marathon" approach for LS.

I had also been out of school for a bit before returning UG and felt like I was just hitting my stride towards the end. Carrying my more consistent last quarter study habits into LS will be productive. Extending my end of quarter rush to a more consistent semester long effort, I believe, will yield good results. Also, I took a course in ug that involved case studying, briefing (of sorts) and had IRAC exams (this was one of the stellar classes and, yes, I realize LS will still be a degree more difficult). That method of study/exam seems to jive with me. I believe I will do well in LS, despite where I attend.

And yes, to Dre, I'll have to work this year as well, which gives me pause in thinking i'll have enough time to dedicate to see 8+ on the LSat.


I read in "Getting to Maybe," IRAC students tend to end up median. You're not in good shape if that's the approach. Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm a 0L.

Also, everyone and their moms destroy the latter course of their college careers. You're one of them. I'm one of them. It's called being a freshman and sophomore in college. Girls, booze, freedom. My GPA and career was the last thing I thought about. We're not unique. When you get to law school, more likely than not, everyone will be gunning for the same thing as you.


Good point.

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Re: Loyola Los Angeles this year with 90k, or retake.

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu May 16, 2013 12:38 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:I'm actually surprised it took 3 pages to get to this point and thanks to all of the helpful posters earlier ITT. I'd like to say I expected better of a mod, but that's not really the truth.


I see what you did there. I lol'd.




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