HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

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Blessedassurance
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu May 16, 2013 12:11 pm

tirakon wrote: I realize the model is built on arbitrary assumptions, but I think that on the whole the model still is indicative of something that is true: that Harvard's yield has a built-in advantage.

If it's so easy to conjecture a model of whatever you want, I invite you to create a model where Harvard doesn't have a huge advantage in overall yield because of its non cross-admitted accepted students.

Also, I never suggested it was harder to get into Stanford than Harvard, nor did anyone else in this thread as far as I can tell. I only said that Harvard and Stanford's respective overall yields are completely unreflective of how they performs in cross-admit battles. You are creating a straw man argument.


stanford has a built-in advantage based on its size. take any outcomes-based metric and you will realize harvard dwarfs stanford on absolute numbers. they cite "per capita" when it benefits them, and cite "per capita" when it works against them.

the thing about stanford's size that works against it is that while it might confer advantages relative to H, it doesn't, relative to Y. given the choice of S versus Y, the overwhelming majority will choose Y everytime mostly because stanford (outside the weather) is a poor man's yale. a different calculus is in play w/r/t y versus h.
Last edited by Blessedassurance on Thu May 16, 2013 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AllTheLawz
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby AllTheLawz » Thu May 16, 2013 12:12 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:This is to encourage work experience more than anything. School wants to move to a Northwestern/B-school model where pretty much everyone has work experience. EIP results this year showed people without Work experience were at a significant disadvantage even compared to those with worse grades.

Do you have data to back that up? Significant, really? I was under the impression that all P at HLS with no WE still landed you a big law job.


It isn't the type of thing the school releases data on. I just know from experience. All Ps with no work experience CAN land you big law but its no guarantee. If you don't have fairly strong interview skills you are at risk of striking out (and this is true at all of HYS). I know of people striking out at all of HYS. Grades alone won't drop you out of the biglaw running but if you don't have decent grades AND you have nothing else going for you, you might be in trouble.

Dr. Dre wrote:what about URM's (think AA) without WE? 8)


URMs at HYS strike out too.


AA? I find that hard to believe (not urm as a whole but specifically AA, especially AA males). yeah, that's not happening (re: AA males) but if you have anecdotes, please share.


Shouldn't be that hard to believe.. it is pretty well known that AAs definitely strike out. I personally know of at least one male and female in 2014 and a few people in 2013 as well. I don't tend ask people the details of EIP unless they bring it up but, from what I have been told, some AAs who were lucky enough to receive offers didn't have a ton to choose from.

Don't believe the hype on the AA male golden ticket.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu May 16, 2013 12:18 pm

AllTheLawz wrote: Shouldn't be that hard to believe.. it is pretty well known that AAs definitely strike out. I personally know of at least one male and female in 2014 and a few people in 2013 as well. I don't tend ask people the details of EIP unless they bring it up but, from what I have been told, some AAs who were lucky enough to receive offers didn't have a ton to choose from.

Don't believe the hype on the AA male golden ticket.


i'm not gonna doubt you mostly because i've come to realize most of the stuff people repeat to each other on tls is pure bullshit. i do however know a lot of AA's without the necessary grades who swing all kinds of "unlikely" outcomes (e.g., california, texas etc., without ties), and bottom of the class at columbia swinging v10. I guess it may all depend on the specific person.

AllTheLawz
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby AllTheLawz » Thu May 16, 2013 12:27 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote: Shouldn't be that hard to believe.. it is pretty well known that AAs definitely strike out. I personally know of at least one male and female in 2014 and a few people in 2013 as well. I don't tend ask people the details of EIP unless they bring it up but, from what I have been told, some AAs who were lucky enough to receive offers didn't have a ton to choose from.

Don't believe the hype on the AA male golden ticket.


i'm not gonna doubt you mostly because i've come to realize most of the stuff people repeat to each other on tls is pure bullshit. i do however know a lot of AA's without the necessary grades who swing all kinds of "unlikely" outcomes (e.g., california, texas etc., without ties), and bottom of the class at columbia swinging v10. I guess it may all depend on the specific person.


It ALL depends on the specific person at the HYS level, even among non-urms. That should be the key takeaway and is a big part of why H is moving to this model. You also have to remember that a lot of the AAs at H have soft factors going for them. A huge percentage did SEO, TFA, have major work experience, military experience, or did very well at a tippy-top undergrad. While LSAT scores are lower among AAs, I would bet that if you compared them to the population as a whole AAs have "better" soft/resume factors. Obviously, these things lessen the importance of grades.

Also, don't believe the hype on what people call "unlikely" outcomes w/r/t markets. People severely overvalue the necessity of ties for HYS.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu May 16, 2013 12:34 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:Also, don't believe the hype on what people call "unlikely" outcomes w/r/t markets. People severely overvalue the necessity of ties for HYS.


agreed. i'm aware of the underlined.

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sinfiery
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby sinfiery » Thu May 16, 2013 12:54 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:This is to encourage work experience more than anything. School wants to move to a Northwestern/B-school model where pretty much everyone has work experience. EIP results this year showed people without Work experience were at a significant disadvantage even compared to those with worse grades.

Do you have data to back that up? Significant, really? I was under the impression that all P at HLS with no WE still landed you a big law job.


It isn't the type of thing the school releases data on. I just know from experience.


This is BS. I demand this data. Why is this process is so inefficient.

someone please think of the children

toothbrush
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby toothbrush » Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 pm

sinfiery wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:This is to encourage work experience more than anything. School wants to move to a Northwestern/B-school model where pretty much everyone has work experience. EIP results this year showed people without Work experience were at a significant disadvantage even compared to those with worse grades.

Do you have data to back that up? Significant, really? I was under the impression that all P at HLS with no WE still landed you a big law job.


It isn't the type of thing the school releases data on. I just know from experience.


This is BS. I demand this data. Why is this process is so inefficient.

someone please think of the children

I know. It's really frustrating to just hear stories from both sides. ITT alone people have said HYS grads don't strike out at median and others have said that they do.

Stories suck. I want spreadsheets, damnit.

PRgradBYU
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu May 16, 2013 1:16 pm

toothbrush wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Well... At least the University of Michigan was ahead of Harvard in this whole TTT business. :lol:

Even UChicago beat Harvard to the punch.

Gulc has a program too for their ug's. I think they don't have to take the lsat too.


Now that is a TTT move.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu May 16, 2013 1:52 pm

toothbrush wrote: I know. It's really frustrating to just hear stories from both sides. ITT alone people have said HYS grads don't strike out at median and others have said that they do.

Stories suck. I want spreadsheets, damnit.


to the extent that people strike out at median at hys, it has nothing to do with the fact that they were median.

people above median who strike out (or come close to it) are more likely to realize it had to do with other factors but people at median or below who strike out are more likely to automatically blame their predicament on their grades when it had very little to do with it.

a story is told by francis bacon of a man went to a cathedral that had pictures of people who survived a shipwreck on the walls. the tour guide said to him "look at all these people who survived because they prayed."

"yay," said the man, "but where are the pictures of all the people who prayed and still drowned?"

AllTheLawz
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Re: HLS Admissions for College Juniors: Game Changer?

Postby AllTheLawz » Thu May 16, 2013 2:10 pm

toothbrush wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
It isn't the type of thing the school releases data on. I just know from experience.


This is BS. I demand this data. Why is this process is so inefficient.

someone please think of the children

I know. It's really frustrating to just hear stories from both sides. ITT alone people have said HYS grads don't strike out at median and others have said that they do.

Stories suck. I want spreadsheets, damnit.[/quote]

If you are striking out at median it has nothing to do with your grades or school. Its something else that is severely wrong. The people saying it is impossible to strike out at any of HYS, or giving a grade range for striking out at HYS, don't attend any of the three schools and generally have no idea what they are talking about.




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