UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

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kingjones59
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UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby kingjones59 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:12 am

This is pretty cool....

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... grants.htm

Anyone know if other schools do this? The article says that UVA gives, through the PILA program, $3500 to 1Ls who work in PI jobs during their 1L summer and $6000 to 2L's that work in PI during their 2L summer. 66 1Ls and 43 2Ls recieved the benefit for this summer. Pennies compared to an SA, but if you really want to pursue PI, this seems pretty cool. Should atleast cover living expenses for the summer.

Sheds more light onto the question of whether UVA's school funded fellowships are strictly to boost numbers, or if they are at least somewhat genuinely concerned with placing their students in PI careers.

(EDIT: Link to article regarding their PI school-funded fellowships: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... wships.htm)

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue May 14, 2013 10:17 am

This is very common for T14 schools...

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kingjones59
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby kingjones59 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:18 am

Wasn't aware. That is good to know.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Tue May 14, 2013 10:55 am

Many of the T14 do this, but it's pretty cool that UVA lists *where* people are working. Dug around yesterday for 1L summer PI positions for H and Columbia and couldn't find any comprehensive info...

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 14, 2013 11:05 am

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Many of the T14 do this, but it's pretty cool that UVA lists *where* people are working. Dug around yesterday for 1L summer PI positions for H and Columbia and couldn't find any comprehensive info...

They probably provide that info to current students.

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thelawyler
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby thelawyler » Tue May 14, 2013 11:07 am

kingjones59 wrote:This is pretty cool....

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... grants.htm

Anyone know if other schools do this? The article says that UVA gives, through the PILA program, $3500 to 1Ls who work in PI jobs during their 1L summer and $6000 to 2L's that work in PI during their 2L summer. 66 1Ls and 43 2Ls recieved the benefit for this summer. Pennies compared to an SA, but if you really want to pursue PI, this seems pretty cool. Should atleast cover living expenses for the summer.

Sheds more light onto the question of whether UVA's school funded fellowships are strictly to boost numbers, or if they are at least somewhat genuinely concerned with placing their students in PI careers.

(EDIT: Link to article regarding their PI school-funded fellowships: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... wships.htm)


NYU provides $4500 for every single 1L as long as they attend a few seminars and do some canvassing during their 1L year. So you don't have to apply / compete for it - it is there if you want it.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue May 14, 2013 11:09 am

NYU gives about 25% more

EDIT: scooped

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Tue May 14, 2013 12:37 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Many of the T14 do this, but it's pretty cool that UVA lists *where* people are working. Dug around yesterday for 1L summer PI positions for H and Columbia and couldn't find any comprehensive info...

They probably provide that info to current students.


I bet they do... but that's not very helpful for prospective students trying to gather as much info as possible about where students end up working.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 14, 2013 1:02 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Many of the T14 do this, but it's pretty cool that UVA lists *where* people are working. Dug around yesterday for 1L summer PI positions for H and Columbia and couldn't find any comprehensive info...

They probably provide that info to current students.


I bet they do... but that's not very helpful for prospective students trying to gather as much info as possible about where students end up working.

True, but schools don't really "place" that differently into unpaid, public interest jobs. These are not hard to get.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue May 14, 2013 1:18 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:They probably provide that info to current students.


I bet they do... but that's not very helpful for prospective students trying to gather as much info as possible about where students end up working.

True, but schools don't really "place" that differently into unpaid, public interest jobs. These are not hard to get.


Well, it can be somewhat important for DA and PD offices--lots of these offices hire from the pool of past summer interns.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby BruceWayne » Tue May 14, 2013 1:24 pm

As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.

BigZuck
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 6:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.


Whomp whomp

gaucholaw
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby gaucholaw » Tue May 14, 2013 7:09 pm

BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.



Bruce Wayne:
Just curious as I will be attending UVA in the fall and have heard mostly positive things, and have noticed that you are one of the naysayers. Could you list the 5 "worst" things about UVA in order to help me gain perspective? Thanks!

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NoodleyOne
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed May 15, 2013 6:10 pm

gaucholaw wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.



Bruce Wayne:
Just curious as I will be attending UVA in the fall and have heard mostly positive things, and have noticed that you are one of the naysayers. Could you list the 5 "worst" things about UVA in order to help me gain perspective? Thanks!

You just opened Pandora's Box...

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby BruceWayne » Mon May 27, 2013 1:02 pm

gaucholaw wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.



Bruce Wayne:
Just curious as I will be attending UVA in the fall and have heard mostly positive things, and have noticed that you are one of the naysayers. Could you list the 5 "worst" things about UVA in order to help me gain perspective? Thanks!


I don't think there are 5 things that I would categorize as the "worst" that apply specifically to UVA. I think law school in general, especially top law schools, need to revamp themselves because the current approach is terrible for all but the very top students.

Nonetheless, I would say 1) Our grading system is terrible. It allows professors to give out any and every grade they choose as long as the class mean comes out to a 3.3. Most of the top 14 specifically designate grade distributions (i.e. 40 % of the class must get a B+ only 5% can get a B- or below). Our system allows (and many professors choose) professors to give out a lot of A and A+ grades while also giving out a lot of B- and C+s. It sets up a feast or famine type of scenario.

2) The school heavily over hypes placement before you actually enroll. Talk of the fellowship is kept at a minimum while images and talk of Supreme Court clerkships, "99% employment", big firm jobs, and the B+ mean are constantly flaunted.

3) The school is actually a very competitive environment. But there is this weird culture of constantly talking about how little you study and how "laid back" you are. It can be very annoying. Also many of the students consider themselves "athletes"/jocks" even though they only play law school softball. Obviously this last one is an opinion and not really that relevant but it's the most I could come up with.


I really think the school's main problem is that it is far too expensive for the employment prospects it provides. It would be a much better scenario if it were around 28-30K a year for tuition. The current price of nearly 50K a year is absolutely absurd. But again I'm not sure this is really a UVA specific problem--a lot of law schools are overpriced.

rad lulz
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby rad lulz » Mon May 27, 2013 1:23 pm

Yo B dubs what do you think ab preselect OCI

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon May 27, 2013 10:20 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
gaucholaw wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.
BruceWayne wrote:As others have said this is very common amongst the top 14. And unfortunately, UVA is actually pretty bad with this in the sense that students have to apply for the grant (it's pretty competitive actually--I know of several people who were rejected). Many of the top 14 simply guarantee the funding for those who work unpaid PI internships.



Bruce Wayne:
Just curious as I will be attending UVA in the fall and have heard mostly positive things, and have noticed that you are one of the naysayers. Could you list the 5 "worst" things about UVA in order to help me gain perspective? Thanks!


I don't think there are 5 things that I would categorize as the "worst" that apply specifically to UVA. I think law school in general, especially top law schools, need to revamp themselves because the current approach is terrible for all but the very top students.

Nonetheless, I would say 1) Our grading system is terrible. It allows professors to give out any and every grade they choose as long as the class mean comes out to a 3.3. Most of the top 14 specifically designate grade distributions (i.e. 40 % of the class must get a B+ only 5% can get a B- or below). Our system allows (and many professors choose) professors to give out a lot of A and A+ grades while also giving out a lot of B- and C+s. It sets up a feast or famine type of scenario.

2) The school heavily over hypes placement before you actually enroll. Talk of the fellowship is kept at a minimum while images and talk of Supreme Court clerkships, "99% employment", big firm jobs, and the B+ mean are constantly flaunted.

3) The school is actually a very competitive environment. But there is this weird culture of constantly talking about how little you study and how "laid back" you are. It can be very annoying. Also many of the students consider themselves "athletes"/jocks" even though they only play law school softball. Obviously this last one is an opinion and not really that relevant but it's the most I could come up with.


I really think the school's main problem is that it is far too expensive for the employment prospects it provides. It would be a much better scenario if it were around 28-30K a year for tuition. The current price of nearly 50K a year is absolutely absurd. But again I'm not sure this is really a UVA specific problem--a lot of law schools are overpriced.

Yeah, probably the weird curve + preselect interviewing are the only differences from the rest of the T14.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA Paying Students Who Work PI During 1L and 2L Summers

Postby BruceWayne » Tue May 28, 2013 11:33 am

rad lulz wrote:Yo B dubs what do you think ab preselect OCI



I'm in the middle on that. I've heard strong arguments both ways. On one hand it continues that feast or famine scenario that the grading system already encourages. What I mean is that, since our system is 50% preselect, firms all flock to simply automatically preselecting the students with the highest GPAs. The issue with that is that if you have a high GPA, you don't need that sort of system because you can interview with essentially whoever you want just by sending in your transcript and resume. Firms will not turn down a UVA law student with a high GPA (for an interview) if the student is interested in them. It's just that simple. However, students with average or below average grades need every single opportunity that they can get to meet face to face with a firm in an interview setting. This is probably an average or below average ranked student's only chance of gaining employment with that firm. If they try to contact/apply to the firm outside of that their transcript will go straight to the trash can. The system essentially guarantees those who probably don't need the help anyway that they will get the job they want, while leaving those most in need of assistance out to dry.

On the other hand, speaking about that app straight to the trash can thing, firms really don't like doing lottery interviews with students outside of their GPA/ranking cutoff. Especially now that we are out of the boom. I don't think firms ever really liked the top law schools lottery system. I mean why would they? But during the boom it was OK for various reasons. Now it's not. Many, if not most firms have auto cutoffs, and if you fall below that cutoff (absent something very unique like being related to a managing partner) they WILL NOT hire you. Thus, you're essentially wasting their time, and yours, when you sit in on an interview with a firm whose cutoff is above your GPA.

Like I said, I'm just not very sure on where I stand with the school's interview system.




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