USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

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USC or Santa Clara

USC
32
78%
Santa Clara
9
22%
 
Total votes: 41

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boblawlob
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby boblawlob » Tue May 14, 2013 2:14 pm

I will say this though about USC. If OP goes to USC, OP should not be driving back every weekend (assuming she does not move the whole family down to SoCal) because that's lost time spent on commuting that could be better used in other ways (refer to LSAT RC passage on commuters wasting precious time in their car instead of socializing in the city lulz). IF OP goes to USC, better to take a train or bus back up to San Jose to get some free time doing some extra reading or what not.

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Rahviveh
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Rahviveh » Tue May 14, 2013 2:17 pm

boblawlob wrote:I will say this though about USC. If OP goes to USC, OP should not be driving back every weekend (assuming she does not move the whole family down to SoCal) because that's lost time spent on commuting that could be better used in other ways (refer to LSAT RC passage on commuters wasting precious time in their car instead of socializing in the city lulz). IF OP goes to USC, better to take a train or bus back up to San Jose to get some free time doing some extra reading or what not.


shes 32, its too late for her to have fun in life anyways, sitting in the car probably is no less fun than other activities she'd be doing

NYstate
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby NYstate » Tue May 14, 2013 2:18 pm

OP what will you do if you don't get any job as a lawyer? Just because you go to law school it doesn't mean you end up as a practicing attorney. I don't agree with your idea that because you have always wanted to be a lawyer you have to go to law school now. I think you want to practice law, but you are not in a position to maximize the chances that you will practice law. California is one of the most crowded markets. What makes you think you will get a job from either of these schools?

You are severely hurting your chances of being employed as a lawyer by refusing to do any kind of IP work.

I am skeptical that you know very much about the actual practice of law. I don't think you can make this decision on what type of law you are going to practice without more knowledge of practice. I think you are underestimating your cost at Santa Clara, you need to look at it as if you lose your scholarship. There are no guarantees on law school grades.

I agree that moving across the country is unreasonable.

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 2:19 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
boblawlob wrote:I will say this though about USC. If OP goes to USC, OP should not be driving back every weekend (assuming she does not move the whole family down to SoCal) because that's lost time spent on commuting that could be better used in other ways (refer to LSAT RC passage on commuters wasting precious time in their car instead of socializing in the city lulz). IF OP goes to USC, better to take a train or bus back up to San Jose to get some free time doing some extra reading or what not.


shes 32, its too late for her to have fun in life anyways, sitting in the car probably is no less fun than other activities she'd be doing


Solid 1671st post :)

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boblawlob
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby boblawlob » Tue May 14, 2013 2:19 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
boblawlob wrote:I will say this though about USC. If OP goes to USC, OP should not be driving back every weekend (assuming she does not move the whole family down to SoCal) because that's lost time spent on commuting that could be better used in other ways (refer to LSAT RC passage on commuters wasting precious time in their car instead of socializing in the city lulz). IF OP goes to USC, better to take a train or bus back up to San Jose to get some free time doing some extra reading or what not.


shes 32, its too late for her to have fun in life anyways, sitting in the car probably is no less fun than other activities she'd be doing

I was thinking more about optimizing time to study for law school. Driving from SoCal to Norcal is tiring as ****. Can't imagine doing it every weekend.

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Rahviveh
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Rahviveh » Tue May 14, 2013 2:20 pm

NYstate wrote:OP what will you do if you don't get any job as a lawyer? Just because you go to law school it doesn't mean you end up as a practicing attorney. I don't agree with your idea that because you have always wanted to be a lawyer you have to go to law school now. I think you want to practice law, but you are not in a position to maximize the chances that you will practice law. California is one of the most crowded markets. What makes you think you will get a job from either of these schools?

You are severely hurting your chances of being employed as a lawyer by refusing to do any kind of IP work.

I am skeptical that you know very much about the actual practice of law. I don't think you can make this decision on what type of law you are going to practice without more knowledge of practice. I think you are underestimating your cost at Santa Clara, you need to look at it as if you lose your scholarship. There are no guarantees on law school grades.

I agree that moving across the country is unreasonable.


Her chances of getting a legal job out of USC are quite good. You are being too conservative here IMO.

But yeah, her refusal to do IP is shooting herself in the foot. Wouldn't a PHD help her with that?

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jbagelboy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 2:22 pm

From what I've gathered reading more posts and thinking about this situation, you're really dealing with deciding what kind of life you want to have. You can choose a localized, family and community-centric life in norcal, or a more dynamic and "grander" but more divisive life heading to USC. The two schools will provide different opportunities, that is clear, and I'm not sure this question will be resolvable via employment and financial comparison. You have to talk to your SO and your kids and decide what kind of life you want both short term and long term. A bunch of people here could tell you to go to USC (and I would be one of them) as its the better law school at that cost and the stips suck, but if that would make you miserable and ruin your family life? TLS logic can't guide you there.

best of luck

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 2:59 pm

BigZuck wrote:I'm not going to argue with you so last thing I'll say in regards to this:

I am only a couple years younger than you and my choice had to be made with my family in mind (engaged, no kids, getting married this summer). I had to choose a school that was not my very top choice (to be frank, if money weren't an issue it would have been like my 10th choice) and, objectively speaking it probably wasn't even the very best choice for me if I was only thinking about myself (I had pretty good scholarships at schools with better job prospects that would not have cost all that much more). However the choice I made was far and away the best for my family. I had to sacrifice some of what I wanted for the sake of the other people involved.


Believe me, I know exactly what you meant. I have been long distanced with my husband for about 2 years. At that time he got a position in CA and I was studying for my phd in AL and we just got our daughter. There were struggles in those two years but I also feel that we did the right thing. I could see him not happy with his previous job and I personally value the happiness the highest for those I love. (I know I am idealist.)

For this reason, I may bear with just going to SCU but could not bear with not going to law school at all. I will hate to spend my life like that. So my point is that I could compromise but not totally giving up my dream. I feel I probably stand very close to where you are.

Best luck to your career and everything.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:30 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.


Also spending 50K out of pocket. That's 150 total, not worth it IMO. 100K total is worth it I think.


I could see that, but she seems to have a clear idea of what she wants to do. The ~100k mark for debt at graduation is very manageable. The opportunity cost of that extra 50k could be high, but that's up to her. USC is a good school and I think is worth it in that situation. Sounds like she's a do-gooder save the whales type so maybe she can land an LRAP job, though that's gonna be difficult in many cases. If she wanted biglaw I'd say no.

So I think USC could be a good option but absolutely not SCU


Thanks for understanding and those sensible thoughts.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:38 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Op's got to do what op's got to do. I understand op that you don't want to bother your husband for money if things go south, but could your husband pay off a 100k debt? If so, that makes USC a bit more reasonable than the average person paying 150k. Generally, that kind of debt can ruin someone's life if they miss big law, but if you have a golden (or even bronze) parachute in your husband at least you are only risking feeling ashamed and reducing your family's standard of living for awhile if you do indeed strike out (which is not a small concern, having a child and all, but is less of a burden than life-altering debt with no way out.
With that said, I still don't think USC is worth 150k however you cut it (unless husband is actually a millionaire or something) so I can't in good conscious "advise" that decision either.
I don't think Santa Clara is a good choice either, though if you had a full-ride and no stips, combined with free COL, it would be a better choice just because the cost is zero and the benefit is greater than zero (though, I'm ignoring opportunity costs, which would lead to a whole other discussion). Try to negotiate with Santa Clara something like this or close to it. Couldn't hurt (and you can still turn it down even if Successful).


My husband is nothing like a millionaire. He is just a normal IT guy. I would think he can cover our expenses with probably 10k left per year if we live together in a pretty plain life style, like we are doing now. We both are pretty low-maintenance.:) But I do want to have more kids down the way, though not with a high living standard like private school or those things. :)

Thanks for the suggestions. I will see whether I could negotiate with SCU.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:39 pm

boblawlob wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.


I saw that too and I admit this is a big temptation to me.

Youyuy
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:44 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
boblawlob wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.


If true this could be an important consideration. Op, how long are you comfortable living away from your family (including potentially across the country)?
Also, on a tangential but relevant note, why no interest in IP?


I would think I will have enough time to come back in the 3rd year, if I did not transfer back earlier...So probably maximum 2years.

I have done research for 10+ years and I quit because I did not feel my passion for science. I do not know whether this would change later on. Could be. I feel I like to work with people, and feel very rewarding when I helped. Is this reason too naive? :)

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Rahviveh
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Rahviveh » Tue May 14, 2013 3:47 pm

Youyuy wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:
boblawlob wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.


If true this could be an important consideration. Op, how long are you comfortable living away from your family (including potentially across the country)?
Also, on a tangential but relevant note, why no interest in IP?


I would think I will have enough time to come back in the 3rd year, if I did not transfer back earlier...So probably maximum 2years.

I have done research for 10+ years and I quit because I did not feel my passion for science. I do not know whether this would change later on. Could be. I feel I like to work with people, and feel very rewarding when I helped. Is this reason too naive? :)


yes, because despite your old age you have yet to learn the most valuable lesson in life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCLTRjF2eq0

seriously though, USC

Youyuy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:51 pm

boblawlob wrote:I will say this though about USC. If OP goes to USC, OP should not be driving back every weekend (assuming she does not move the whole family down to SoCal) because that's lost time spent on commuting that could be better used in other ways (refer to LSAT RC passage on commuters wasting precious time in their car instead of socializing in the city lulz). IF OP goes to USC, better to take a train or bus back up to San Jose to get some free time doing some extra reading or what not.


Thanks. This is very valuable suggestion. I will probably do that if I go to USC.

Youyuy
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 3:57 pm

NYstate wrote:OP what will you do if you don't get any job as a lawyer? Just because you go to law school it doesn't mean you end up as a practicing attorney. I don't agree with your idea that because you have always wanted to be a lawyer you have to go to law school now. I think you want to practice law, but you are not in a position to maximize the chances that you will practice law. California is one of the most crowded markets. What makes you think you will get a job from either of these schools?

You are severely hurting your chances of being employed as a lawyer by refusing to do any kind of IP work.

I am skeptical that you know very much about the actual practice of law. I don't think you can make this decision on what type of law you are going to practice without more knowledge of practice. I think you are underestimating your cost at Santa Clara, you need to look at it as if you lose your scholarship. There are no guarantees on law school grades.

I agree that moving across the country is unreasonable.


Thanks for being this frank. You are right. I do have much concerns about job prospects in non-IP area. And honestly I did not think I could shut the door of IP. I will probably pursue several directions in law school, in which IP will definitely be one of these. And hopefully this could be my safety net, to some extent.

For SCU, they said that their grad is 2.33-4.33, which means 3 is a B- level. I personally think if I could not get that, I should probably just quit law school and continue my research work.

vizio24
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby vizio24 » Tue May 14, 2013 3:58 pm

Had to chime in for the sake of your family.

I think you are really overestimating your ability to get a non-IP job. Do you know what it's like to actually practice law? English is not your first language, and it very much shows. Your grasp of the language is nowhere near the quality it needs to be to secure a legal job (which obviously requires TONS of writing).

Being a judicial clerk is ALL about writing. No judge will hire you if you can't write as if English was your first language.

Good luck.

And I go to USC and its awesome.

Youyuy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 5:17 pm

jbagelboy wrote:From what I've gathered reading more posts and thinking about this situation, you're really dealing with deciding what kind of life you want to have. You can choose a localized, family and community-centric life in norcal, or a more dynamic and "grander" but more divisive life heading to USC. The two schools will provide different opportunities, that is clear, and I'm not sure this question will be resolvable via employment and financial comparison. You have to talk to your SO and your kids and decide what kind of life you want both short term and long term. A bunch of people here could tell you to go to USC (and I would be one of them) as its the better law school at that cost and the stips suck, but if that would make you miserable and ruin your family life? TLS logic can't guide you there.

best of luck


Right. This is what I am thinking too. I suppose I will bear with 2 year long distance but definitely no longer. Will not sacrifice my family life for my career.

Youyuy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 5:18 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
yes, because despite your old age you have yet to learn the most valuable lesson in life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCLTRjF2eq0

seriously though, USC


LOL

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue May 14, 2013 5:20 pm

USC.

Youyuy
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 5:37 pm

vizio24 wrote:Had to chime in for the sake of your family.

I think you are really overestimating your ability to get a non-IP job. Do you know what it's like to actually practice law? English is not your first language, and it very much shows. Your grasp of the language is nowhere near the quality it needs to be to secure a legal job (which obviously requires TONS of writing).

Being a judicial clerk is ALL about writing. No judge will hire you if you can't write as if English was your first language.

Good luck.

And I go to USC and its awesome.


Thanks for your honest comments. I guess I am now more certain where I should work on in the next few years.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue May 14, 2013 6:10 pm

just stick to your PhD jerb




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