USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

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USC or Santa Clara

USC
32
78%
Santa Clara
9
22%
 
Total votes: 41

Youyuy
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:28 pm

USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 4:57 am

First time poster, and long time lurker. Have been thinking for a while but could not make the decision yet. I will appreciate all the honest advices.

(Will not retake; have used my 3 quotas and am not planning to wait until next year. Already 32 years old.)

Got 3 offers:
1, Santa Clara U, scholarship 30,000/yr, as far as GPA > 3.0; will be reviewed for increasing if in top 10%
2, USC, scholarship 20,000/yr, guaranteed, would not increase/decrease
3, GWU, scholarship 20,000/yr

Waiting listed in UVA, GULC and UCLA. But I am not planning to wait for them.

My situation:
1, currently lived in Bay area. My husband worked here and I have a daughter who is 6 yrs old. I definitely will seek to work in California after graduation, specifically in Bay area, since my husband works in IT field.
2, Not considering GWU now since it is too far from home.
3, Santa Clara is very close to home, 15 minutes drive. So ~0 COA if go to santa clara.
4, probably around 15k/yr COA for USC. 5.5 hrs drive from USC to my home.
5, Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk, also have a passion to help the disadvantaged group.
6, originally from China, not a native speaker. But will get EAD/green card probably in half a year, so do not need employer to sponsor my visa.

If go to Santa Clara, will not need to loan. Probably total costs will be under 50k;
If go to USC, probable costs will be about ~150k altogether. Will probably loan about 100k.

Thank you all.

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Dmini7
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Dmini7 » Tue May 14, 2013 5:23 am

Youyuy wrote:First time poster, and long time lurker. Have been thinking for a while but could not make the decision yet. I will appreciate all the honest advices.

(Will not retake; have used my 3 quotas and am not planning to wait until next year. Already 32 years old.)

Got 3 offers:
1, Santa Clara U, scholarship 30,000/yr, as far as GPA > 3.0; will be reviewed for increasing if in top 10%
2, USC, scholarship 20,000/yr, guaranteed, would not increase/decrease
3, GWU, scholarship 20,000/yr

Waiting listed in UVA, GULC and UCLA. But I am not planning to wait for them.

My situation:
1, currently lived in Bay area. My husband worked here and I have a daughter who is 6 yrs old. I definitely will seek to work in California after graduation, specifically in Bay area, since my husband works in IT field.
2, Not considering GWU now since it is too far from home.
3, Santa Clara is very close to home, 15 minutes drive. So ~0 COA if go to santa clara.
4, probably around 15k/yr COA for USC. 5.5 hrs drive from USC to my home.
5, Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk, also have a passion to help the disadvantaged group.
6, originally from China, not a native speaker. But will get EAD/green card probably in half a year, so do not need employer to sponsor my visa.

If go to Santa Clara, will not need to loan. Probably total costs will be under 50k;
If go to USC, probable costs will be about ~150k altogether. Will probably loan about 100k.

Thank you all.


Personally, I hate conditional scholarships, and am very pessimistic about you keeping it and that your costs will only be 50k. This is not because I doubt your ability or anything, its just, if I recall correctly, SCU's stip is like top 25%. You have no interest in using your Phd background either, so I would say it is very important to go to the best school you can. Is your husband stuck in working in the bay area at the moment? Are you opposed to relocating if he could transfer his job? I would choose USC in this position, but unfortunately, you have an entire family to consider. The discrepancy in the two schools job placement abilities is just too large for me to really justify SCU especially with the stipulation.

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sublime
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby sublime » Tue May 14, 2013 6:31 am

..

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 11:21 am

If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue May 14, 2013 11:33 am

BigZuck wrote:If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.

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bananasplit19
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby bananasplit19 » Tue May 14, 2013 11:50 am

You should really try hard to get that stip removed from your Santa Clara offer. If you can, I think it isn't as bad an option as it would be for a traditional applicant. Bottom line, you'd have minimal debt and wouldn't have to uproot your family (or spend semesters away from your family).

For most of us, anything that isn't BigLaw or federal clerkship is just as bad a result as unemployment because small law/mid law won't service debt. Consequently, for a traditional applicant, you'd only really have a 1/10 shot of a "good outcome" from SCU, and that's only if you're locked into the Bay Area market. But 1) you wouldn't have the debt, and 2) you don't want to have the BigLaw lifestyle (a kid, a husband in IT, etc). So given where you are in life (both in terms of family and location), and what your income/debt situation will be, SCU's good outcome/bad outcome divider line is very different for you than it would be for an unmarried 24-year-old.

That being said, the stip you currently have is a deal-breaker. But if AND ONLY IF you could guarantee that the door to a free law degree will remain open at SCU, I think that's your best bet. Just my opinion, though!

SFSpartan
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby SFSpartan » Tue May 14, 2013 12:01 pm

Take the guaranteed money at USC. It's a better school, and Santa Clara stacks their sections, which makes it more difficult to keep their scholarship for 2L and 3L

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 12:30 pm

Dmini7 wrote:Personally, I hate conditional scholarships, and am very pessimistic about you keeping it and that your costs will only be 50k. This is not because I doubt your ability or anything, its just, if I recall correctly, SCU's stip is like top 25%. You have no interest in using your Phd background either, so I would say it is very important to go to the best school you can. Is your husband stuck in working in the bay area at the moment? Are you opposed to relocating if he could transfer his job? I would choose USC in this position, but unfortunately, you have an entire family to consider. The discrepancy in the two schools job placement abilities is just too large for me to really justify SCU especially with the stipulation.


Thanks bro/sis.

SCU does change my stipulation weeks ago from top 25% to GPA > 3.0.

My husband will not move at least in short term (~1-2 yrs). Now he is in a position he likes and he just got promoted. So I will have to be prepared to leave them for at least 2 years.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 12:33 pm

BigZuck wrote:If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.


Thanks. But I am determined to try this. Life is short and I have been old enough to hold on what I want to do so that I won't be regretful when I am old.

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Rahviveh
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Rahviveh » Tue May 14, 2013 12:35 pm

USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 1:00 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:You should really try hard to get that stip removed from your Santa Clara offer. If you can, I think it isn't as bad an option as it would be for a traditional applicant. Bottom line, you'd have minimal debt and wouldn't have to uproot your family (or spend semesters away from your family).

For most of us, anything that isn't BigLaw or federal clerkship is just as bad a result as unemployment because small law/mid law won't service debt. Consequently, for a traditional applicant, you'd only really have a 1/10 shot of a "good outcome" from SCU, and that's only if you're locked into the Bay Area market. But 1) you wouldn't have the debt, and 2) you don't want to have the BigLaw lifestyle (a kid, a husband in IT, etc). So given where you are in life (both in terms of family and location), and what your income/debt situation will be, SCU's good outcome/bad outcome divider line is very different for you than it would be for an unmarried 24-year-old.

That being said, the stip you currently have is a deal-breaker. But if AND ONLY IF you could guarantee that the door to a free law degree will remain open at SCU, I think that's your best bet. Just my opinion, though!


Thanks. You have outspoken several of my hidden concerns. I am personally not very scared of debt, but I will hate to bother my husband with it after I graduate. And I do hope I could keep a balance between family and work, with a career I like and also have time for my kid. But I am not very confident with the job prospects after I graduate from SCU, especially because I probably will not work in IP area. I am afraid that after I spend this much of time, money and energy I could not land a job that I want to do. This is probably my biggest concern.

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 1:04 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.


Also spending 50K out of pocket. That's 150 total, not worth it IMO. 100K total is worth it I think.

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 1:06 pm

Youyuy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.


Thanks. But I am determined to try this. Life is short and I have been old enough to hold on what I want to do so that I won't be regretful when I am old.


I think this is a bad attitude to have when another life hangs in the balance. If you were 22 and single and kidless I would give you the YOLO stamp of approval. But unfortunately you have to make a good solid adult choice, if only for the sake of your child.

Youyuy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Youyuy » Tue May 14, 2013 1:18 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Youyuy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.


Thanks. But I am determined to try this. Life is short and I have been old enough to hold on what I want to do so that I won't be regretful when I am old.


I think this is a bad attitude to have when another life hangs in the balance. If you were 22 and single and kidless I would give you the YOLO stamp of approval. But unfortunately you have to make a good solid adult choice, if only for the sake of your child.


Thanks for being honest. :) I do have concern with my daughter. But I think I will regret more if I choose to live a life not daring to do things that I want to do.

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jbagelboy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 1:32 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.


+1

its a heavy price but not totally unreasonable

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Rahviveh
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Rahviveh » Tue May 14, 2013 1:36 pm

BigZuck wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.


Also spending 50K out of pocket. That's 150 total, not worth it IMO. 100K total is worth it I think.


I could see that, but she seems to have a clear idea of what she wants to do. The ~100k mark for debt at graduation is very manageable. The opportunity cost of that extra 50k could be high, but that's up to her. USC is a good school and I think is worth it in that situation. Sounds like she's a do-gooder save the whales type so maybe she can land an LRAP job, though that's gonna be difficult in many cases. If she wanted biglaw I'd say no.

So I think USC could be a good option but absolutely not SCU

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 1:40 pm

Youyuy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Youyuy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If these were my two options I would not go to law school. USC is too expensive and Santa Clara is a terrible school.


Thanks. But I am determined to try this. Life is short and I have been old enough to hold on what I want to do so that I won't be regretful when I am old.


I think this is a bad attitude to have when another life hangs in the balance. If you were 22 and single and kidless I would give you the YOLO stamp of approval. But unfortunately you have to make a good solid adult choice, if only for the sake of your child.


Thanks for being honest. :) I do have concern with my daughter. But I think I will regret more if I choose to live a life not daring to do things that I want to do.


I'm not going to argue with you so last thing I'll say in regards to this:

I am only a couple years younger than you and my choice had to be made with my family in mind (engaged, no kids, getting married this summer). I had to choose a school that was not my very top choice (to be frank, if money weren't an issue it would have been like my 10th choice) and, objectively speaking it probably wasn't even the very best choice for me if I was only thinking about myself (I had pretty good scholarships at schools with better job prospects that would not have cost all that much more). However the choice I made was far and away the best for my family. I had to sacrifice some of what I wanted for the sake of the other people involved.

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 1:45 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:USC is too expensive at 100k? I don't agree. That's what I would go with in this situation.


Also spending 50K out of pocket. That's 150 total, not worth it IMO. 100K total is worth it I think.


I could see that, but she seems to have a clear idea of what she wants to do. The ~100k mark for debt at graduation is very manageable. The opportunity cost of that extra 50k could be high, but that's up to her. USC is a good school and I think is worth it in that situation. Sounds like she's a do-gooder save the whales type so maybe she can land an LRAP job, though that's gonna be difficult in many cases. If she wanted biglaw I'd say no.

So I think USC could be a good option but absolutely not SCU


Fair enough. I have never looked at USCs LRAP though so no idea if its any good. I know the LRAP at some of its peers (looking at you, UT) is crap but I think people say UCLAs is pretty good so maybe USC has followed suit.

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jbagelboy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 1:47 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Thanks for being honest. :) I do have concern with my daughter. But I think I will regret more if I choose to live a life not daring to do things that I want to do.


I'm not going to argue with you so last thing I'll say in regards to this:

I am only a couple years younger than you and my choice had to be made with my family in mind (engaged, no kids, getting married this summer). I had to choose a school that was not my very top choice (to be frank, if money weren't an issue it would have been like my 10th choice) and, objectively speaking it probably wasn't even the very best choice for me if I was only thinking about myself (I had pretty good scholarships at schools with better job prospects that would not have cost all that much more). However the choice I made was far and away the best for my family. I had to sacrifice some of what I wanted for the sake of the other people involved.


props. you're a good dude.

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Micdiddy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Micdiddy » Tue May 14, 2013 1:54 pm

Op's got to do what op's got to do. I understand op that you don't want to bother your husband for money if things go south, but could your husband pay off a 100k debt? If so, that makes USC a bit more reasonable than the average person paying 150k. Generally, that kind of debt can ruin someone's life if they miss big law, but if you have a golden (or even bronze) parachute in your husband at least you are only risking feeling ashamed and reducing your family's standard of living for awhile if you do indeed strike out (which is not a small concern, having a child and all, but is less of a burden than life-altering debt with no way out.
With that said, I still don't think USC is worth 150k however you cut it (unless husband is actually a millionaire or something) so I can't in good conscious "advise" that decision either.
I don't think Santa Clara is a good choice either, though if you had a full-ride and no stips, combined with free COL, it would be a better choice just because the cost is zero and the benefit is greater than zero (though, I'm ignoring opportunity costs, which would lead to a whole other discussion). Try to negotiate with Santa Clara something like this or close to it. Couldn't hurt (and you can still turn it down even if Successful).

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boblawlob
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby boblawlob » Tue May 14, 2013 1:55 pm

Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 2:01 pm

boblawlob wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.


And mess with the family dynamic by having mom in LA and Dad in San Jose for years? And still spend 150K? For USC?

No, no, no. I just don't think that's prudent. These are real lives we are talking about here.

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Micdiddy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Micdiddy » Tue May 14, 2013 2:02 pm

boblawlob wrote:
Youyuy wrote:Have a Bio Phd, but probably will not work in IP area. Interested in Criminal law and torts, would love to have chances to do judicial clerk


USC all the way.

Santa Clara fed. clerkships = 0
USC fed. clerkships = 15

And fed. judges love to hire clerks with PhDs.


If true this could be an important consideration. Op, how long are you comfortable living away from your family (including potentially across the country)?
Also, on a tangential but relevant note, why no interest in IP?

BigZuck
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 2:03 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Op's got to do what op's got to do. I understand op that you don't want to bother your husband for money if things go south, but could your husband pay off a 100k debt? If so, that makes USC a bit more reasonable than the average person paying 150k. Generally, that kind of debt can ruin someone's life if they miss big law, but if you have a golden (or even bronze) parachute in your husband at least you are only risking feeling ashamed and reducing your family's standard of living for awhile if you do indeed strike out (which is not a small concern, having a child and all, but is less of a burden than life-altering debt with no way out.
With that said, I still don't think USC is worth 150k however you cut it (unless husband is actually a millionaire or something) so I can't in good conscious "advise" that decision either.
I don't think Santa Clara is a good choice either, though if you had a full-ride and no stips, combined with free COL, it would be a better choice just because the cost is zero and the benefit is greater than zero (though, I'm ignoring opportunity costs, which would lead to a whole other discussion). Try to negotiate with Santa Clara something like this or close to it. Couldn't hurt (and you can still turn it down even if Successful).


I guess if a gun was to my head AND the husband had a really solid job I would just go to Santa Clara. But only if I was really ok with the fact that there is a very good chance that I now have two useless advanced degrees instead of just one.

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Micdiddy
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Re: USC $$ Vs Santa Clara $$$

Postby Micdiddy » Tue May 14, 2013 2:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Op's got to do what op's got to do. I understand op that you don't want to bother your husband for money if things go south, but could your husband pay off a 100k debt? If so, that makes USC a bit more reasonable than the average person paying 150k. Generally, that kind of debt can ruin someone's life if they miss big law, but if you have a golden (or even bronze) parachute in your husband at least you are only risking feeling ashamed and reducing your family's standard of living for awhile if you do indeed strike out (which is not a small concern, having a child and all, but is less of a burden than life-altering debt with no way out.
With that said, I still don't think USC is worth 150k however you cut it (unless husband is actually a millionaire or something) so I can't in good conscious "advise" that decision either.
I don't think Santa Clara is a good choice either, though if you had a full-ride and no stips, combined with free COL, it would be a better choice just because the cost is zero and the benefit is greater than zero (though, I'm ignoring opportunity costs, which would lead to a whole other discussion). Try to negotiate with Santa Clara something like this or close to it. Couldn't hurt (and you can still turn it down even if Successful).


I guess if a gun was to my head AND the husband had a really solid job I would just go to Santa Clara. But only if I was really ok with the fact that there is a very good chance that I now have two useless advanced degrees instead of just one.


Haha, yep, that's the chance op would take. But honestly living at home to be with the family AND Yolo yourself a law degree for practically free doesn't seem awful let's put it that way. Again, ignoring opportunity costs for time being.




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