Ties and Portable Degrees

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osubucknut
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Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby osubucknut » Mon May 13, 2013 10:25 pm

The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?

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sinfiery
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby sinfiery » Mon May 13, 2013 10:30 pm

Yes.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon May 13, 2013 10:37 pm

osubucknut wrote:The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?


How many firms from NE Ohio show up to OCI at UF? My guess would be not many (or, more likely, none). How many UF grads work at firms in NE Ohio. Use nalp to find firms in the areas you're interested in and then just google the firm and look at lawyers bios. My guess is there isn't too many UF grads at these firms. So if firms don't usually have from UF, they don't have experience with UF grads, and they usually fill their SA class from local schools and some top schools, what makes you think you'll have a good shot trying to make the cut when mass mailing these firms? I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's making things very difficult on yourself and it's pretty risky.

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sublime
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby sublime » Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 pm

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y2zipper
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby y2zipper » Mon May 13, 2013 11:02 pm

osubucknut wrote:The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?


A tie is basically having a logical reason for wanting to work in city X. I you've lived in Ohio your whole life and want to stay, that's a pretty strong case for going to a school that feeds into Ohio at a reasonable price. Somebody who's never been to Ohio, on the other hand, probably doesn't have that option or has to establish those ties while in school. That's more difficult.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon May 13, 2013 11:15 pm

sublime wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
osubucknut wrote:The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?


How many firms from NE Ohio show up to OCI at UF? My guess would be not many (or, more likely, none). How many UF grads work at firms in NE Ohio. Use nalp to find firms in the areas you're interested in and then just google the firm and look at lawyers bios. My guess is there isn't too many UF grads at these firms. So if firms don't usually have from UF, they don't have experience with UF grads, and they usually fill their SA class from local schools and some top schools, what makes you think you'll have a good shot trying to make the cut when mass mailing these firms? I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's making things very difficult on yourself and it's pretty risky.



Is this partially dependent on grades or not really? Would someone who finished, say top 10 percent with decent work/internship experience be able to realistically get back "home."


There's really no way to give a definite answer to this. It just depends--depends on the school, depends on the class rank, depends on the firms at issue, etc. But it's generally smarter to choose the local school over the "higher ranked" school, unless it's one of the top schools. (E.g., SMU is probably a better choice than WUSTL if your goal is to work in Dallas.)

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sublime
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby sublime » Mon May 13, 2013 11:30 pm

..

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romothesavior
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby romothesavior » Tue May 14, 2013 9:52 am

osubucknut wrote:The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?

Yes its definitely possible, but if you're choosing a truly regional school, then you're putting yourself behind the 8-ball to start. It'll take strong networking when you're home, and working in your desired market during the summers. But personally, I'd rather be in my desired market.

There are some schools (generally T20s and T14s) where this works out pretty well. They aren't "destination schools" in that they don't open up new markets absent top grades, but they are strong degrees to take back home. For example, I go to WUSTL and I know a few people with Florida ties who were able to take the degree back to Florida with relative ease. Similarly, all the Dallas natives here seemed to do well returning to Dallas. But had they gone to SLU, which is a very regional school? Probably not going to have much success taking that degree back home.

osubucknut
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby osubucknut » Tue May 14, 2013 1:23 pm

I guess my biggest concern is going somewhere I think I'd really like to live and missing home after three years. I didn't know if strong ties to an area would actually help even if your degree is from a regional school across the country.

andythefir
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby andythefir » Tue May 14, 2013 1:37 pm

osubucknut wrote:I guess my biggest concern is going somewhere I think I'd really like to live and missing home after three years. I didn't know if strong ties to an area would actually help even if your degree is from a regional school across the country.


This reflects a classic 0L mistake: going to a school is a solid, but not conclusive, way to prove you're serious about living where the school is. Let's say you spent your whole life in Ohio, then go to UF. Your classmates will most likely be from Florida for the most part, they most likely will have family and roots there. Firms don't turn a profit on associates for years and they are for the most part risk-averse. Someone whose whole life has been in Florida is less likely to leave than someone who's whole life has been in Ohio.

Think about it from the firm's view. How many cousins/friends from high school/barbers are going to come to you, and therefore the firm, when they need legal help if you've only spent 3 years of your mid 20s there? If you were someone in Florida looking for legal help would you be more comfortable from someone who has spent their whole life there or someone who just moved there recently?

That being said, you can overcome that disadvantage by having awesome grades or some compelling story about why you have to live in Florida. But good grades can come crashing down in a single 3 hour exam, and if you then try to make it back to Ohio you've missed 3 years of networking, learning Ohio-specific law etc.

osubucknut
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby osubucknut » Tue May 14, 2013 1:55 pm

So if you go to a regional school outside of your home state and don't finish at the top of your class are you just screwed everywhere? This makes me extremely nervous about my future and I'm starting to feel stuck in Ohio. While I don't consider myself to be dumb, I realize 90% of students don't finish in the top 10%. Why do so many people take the risk of going to a non t14 regional school if there's no guarantee they'll finish with grades high enough to find a decent job? If it changes anything, in my hypothetical situation I'm not including biglaw.

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untar614
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby untar614 » Tue May 14, 2013 2:10 pm

andythefir wrote:
osubucknut wrote:I guess my biggest concern is going somewhere I think I'd really like to live and missing home after three years. I didn't know if strong ties to an area would actually help even if your degree is from a regional school across the country.



Think about it from the firm's view. How many cousins/friends from high school/barbers are going to come to you, and therefore the firm, when they need legal help if you've only spent 3 years of your mid 20s there? If you were someone in Florida looking for legal help would you be more comfortable from someone who has spent their whole life there or someone who just moved there recently?

What kind of firm are you working for that they count on your cousins, high schools friends and barber for legal business?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue May 14, 2013 4:43 pm

romothesavior wrote:
osubucknut wrote:The topic of ties and portable degrees confuses me. I realize it's very hard to take a degree from a regional school (ex. Case), and move somewhere across the country (ex. Florida). But can someone take a degree from a regional school and find a job in a location they have strong ties to? For instance, I have lived in NE Ohio my entire life and my family lives in NE Ohio; would it be difficult to take a degree from UF and find a job back in NE Ohio even with such strong "ties"?

Yes its definitely possible, but if you're choosing a truly regional school, then you're putting yourself behind the 8-ball to start. It'll take strong networking when you're home, and working in your desired market during the summers. But personally, I'd rather be in my desired market.

There are some schools (generally T20s and T14s) where this works out pretty well. They aren't "destination schools" in that they don't open up new markets absent top grades, but they are strong degrees to take back home. For example, I go to WUSTL and I know a few people with Florida ties who were able to take the degree back to Florida with relative ease. Similarly, all the Dallas natives here seemed to do well returning to Dallas. But had they gone to SLU, which is a very regional school? Probably not going to have much success taking that degree back home.

gives me hope..

BigZuck
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 5:03 pm

osubucknut wrote:So if you go to a regional school outside of your home state and don't finish at the top of your class are you just screwed everywhere? This makes me extremely nervous about my future and I'm starting to feel stuck in Ohio. While I don't consider myself to be dumb, I realize 90% of students don't finish in the top 10%. Why do so many people take the risk of going to a non t14 regional school if there's no guarantee they'll finish with grades high enough to find a decent job? If it changes anything, in my hypothetical situation I'm not including biglaw.


If there is a place you are thinking of moving to then why not just move there and work for a year and retake the LSAT. Hopefully you would get a good score for a good scholarship, get some life experience, and, at the very least, establish some ties and see if you can stomach living in that place.

I did just that, best thing I have ever done for myself.

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sublime
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Re: Ties and Portable Degrees

Postby sublime » Tue May 14, 2013 6:51 pm

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