T14 vs. regional schools

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Total Debt at Graduation

Cornell (215k)
21
24%
UCLA (110k)
44
49%
USC (118k)
6
7%
UCI (12k)
18
20%
 
Total votes: 89

Big Dog
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby Big Dog » Sun May 12, 2013 5:43 pm

in before Dr. Dre. :mrgreen:

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thatgumyoulike
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby thatgumyoulike » Sun May 12, 2013 5:53 pm

Big Dog wrote:in before Dr. Dre. :mrgreen:

I'll save him time: Don't go to California. Retake. UCI is TTTTerrible.

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bananasplit19
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby bananasplit19 » Mon May 13, 2013 12:09 am

Given your priorities, I don't think UCI (not your best bet for BigLaw) or Cornell (not your best bet for CA) are ideal fits. My 0L vote is for UCLA because it's cheaper.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby jbagelboy » Mon May 13, 2013 2:35 pm

Voted Cornell for the following 4 reasons:

1) your SO will move with you

2) you actually liked Ithaca. DAMN SON I could stop now.

3) as a bruin UG, you can market that connection back to LA via UCLA's alumni network. This is considered a "tie" that could help you find gainful LA employment. UCLA Law doesn't add much to your wilshire street cred OR national alumni connections

4) you wouldn't mind doing NYC biglaw, which would be your fallback if the LA dream doesn't pan out

y2zipper
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby y2zipper » Mon May 13, 2013 6:26 pm

thatgumyoulike wrote:
y2zipper wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If OP really prefers NYC biglaw to CA non-biglaw, then I think Cornell is the way to go...although at that price it's not the best of situations. UCLA will still require biglaw to pay off (I don't know about their LRAP program) and there is a big enough difference in biglaw placement (58% vs. 34%) that I think makes it worth it.


Do you honestly think OP will last long enough in NYC biglaw to pay back that much debt? Not a rhetorical question -- legitimately curious.


I don't know, but I wouldn't go biglaw or bust at UCLA. That's riskier than taking on more debt at Cornell. Then again, I'm a 0L. To be fair, neither option is great but Cornell is a much better shot here until UCLA comes in under 70K or so, and even that's high.

If I were in OP's shoes I'd take biglaw off the table and do UCI.


That's fair. Is it reasonable to add fed. clerkships + large firm + public service jobs (w/ LRAP) as desirable outcomes to pay off the debt?
4.8 +34.2 +11.4=50.4% at UCLA.
6.3 + 57.9 + 13.7=77.9% at Cornell.

The debt is frightening at Cornell. At what figure would it become a good option?

Also, UCI living at home (the drive would be terrible, but doable) would leave me with very little debt. Opinions on UCI at this price, and what types of outcomes I'd be limiting myself to? I'm afraid LST isn't very helpful here.


I don't really like adding PI because it's my understanding that you have to choose going in. It won't fall into your lap if you gun for biglaw and don't get it. Even if you did, you're flipping a coin for 100K.

I'm not sure what you'd get out of UCI either frankly.

Cornell becomes a good option at roughly 150K, probably. I look at an option as financially good if the total debt with interest is roughly a year's salary. Debt-adversity and risk-adversity in terms of job prospects is where the line is. I'm going to try and summarize without my personal bias getting in the way.

Cornell will make you a lawyer with at least a shot of paying the debt at median. You may have to keep the job longer than you want and the number's horrible in a vacuum, but debt is a tool that you have to evaluate based on the likelihood of paying it off. If it's lawyer or death, take Cornell. I'd probably beg them for another 50K regardless.

With UCI, there's a good chance you won't get to be a lawyer at all or have to open a solo practice. Some people would rather pay 200K than go down a path where they might not make it. This is contingent on opportunity costs, but if you could live with not making it and picking something else to do, you'd at least be able to walk away clean or do lawyer work on the side or something.

With UCLA, tanking here is the same at tanking at Cornell without the upside. You'll never pay off the debt load if you strike out, and that's a real possibility. If you choose biglaw, the outcome at median doesn't give you a chance to pay it off at all because you won't get biglaw according to the numbers.

Hope that helps...

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon May 13, 2013 6:34 pm

Are people really all gung-Ho for UCLA over USC for $8K? I think that might be made up for easily by QOL, distance from SO's parents house, etc...

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twenty
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby twenty » Mon May 13, 2013 6:58 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:Are people really all gung-Ho for UCLA over USC for $8K?


but DAT USNWR RANKING

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby ManoftheHour » Mon May 13, 2013 7:00 pm

thatgumyoulike wrote:
Big Dog wrote:in before Dr. Dre. :mrgreen:

I'll save him time: Don't go to California. Retake. UCI is TTTTerrible.


lol

Or how about:

Dr. Dre wrote: UCI will never be worth it.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby jbagelboy » Mon May 13, 2013 7:32 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
thatgumyoulike wrote:
Big Dog wrote:in before Dr. Dre. :mrgreen:

I'll save him time: Don't go to California. Retake. UCI is TTTTerrible.


lol

Or how about:

Dr. Dre wrote: UCI will never be worth it.


Lol poor dre is being preempted all over the place

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon May 13, 2013 8:12 pm

OP go to Cornell.

You will have dat ivy league swag, not be confined to the atrocious california legal market, and will MOST LIKELY have a jerb post-graduation.

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thatgumyoulike
Posts: 77
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby thatgumyoulike » Wed May 15, 2013 8:34 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If OP really prefers NYC biglaw to CA non-biglaw, then I think Cornell is the way to go...although at that price it's not the best of situations. UCLA will still require biglaw to pay off (I don't know about their LRAP program) and there is a big enough difference in biglaw placement (58% vs. 34%) that I think makes it worth it.


Do you honestly think OP will last long enough in NYC biglaw to pay back that much debt? Not a rhetorical question -- legitimately curious.

Curious about this, too. If I do get biglaw at Cornell, about how long until I can pay off $215K on a reasonable budget living in NY or LA?

For those saying 110k is too much for UCLA, if I can get the number closer to 80-90k, does that make it worth the risk?

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thatgumyoulike
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby thatgumyoulike » Thu May 23, 2013 1:14 am

Bumping as 2nd deposit looms at Cornell. Still struggling with the cost vs. UCLA.
Last edited by thatgumyoulike on Thu May 23, 2013 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Cornell vs. California Schools

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 23, 2013 1:18 am

thatgumyoulike wrote:Bumping as 2nd deposit looms at Cornell.


Bumping my previous response

jbagelboy wrote:Voted Cornell for the following 4 reasons:

1) your SO will move with you

2) you actually liked Ithaca. DAMN SON I could stop now.

3) as a bruin UG, you can market that connection back to LA via UCLA's alumni network. This is considered a "tie" that could help you find gainful LA employment. UCLA Law doesn't add much to your wilshire street cred OR national alumni connections

4) you wouldn't mind doing NYC biglaw, which would be your fallback if the LA dream doesn't pan out

Ti Malice
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Re: T14 vs. regional schools

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:49 pm

thatgumyoulike wrote:Edit: Took out the details. See poll.


Which makes voting useless. See: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206299.

Accordingly, I'm just going to flip a coin to decide how to vote in your poll.

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Lavitz
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Re: T14 vs. regional schools

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:56 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Accordingly, I'm just going to flip a coin to decide how to vote in your poll.

OP made his decision weeks ago.

Comoncents bumped it by spamming every thread.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: T14 vs. regional schools

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:06 pm

Lavitz wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Accordingly, I'm just going to flip a coin to decide how to vote in your poll.

OP made his decision weeks ago.

Comoncents bumped it by spamming every thread.


Noted. I also see that the mods nuked every one of his posts from today.




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