Turning down bigger scholarships?

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rgrann12
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Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:16 am

So, I have narrowed my choices down for Law School to 3 choices (the 3 schools that offered scholarships and seemed interested) Syracuse, University of Oregon, and University of New Hampshire- was accepted to all 5 (UConn, U of Miami). GPA was 3.43 and LSAT was 157. (helped somewhat that my final 2 years my GPA was around a 3.8) My current offers are as follows, with the school/ scholarship offer/ and total cost of attendance per year/total/ law school rank 2013

Syracuse/ 33k per year(2.8 GPA)/ 29k/ 86k/ 96
Oregon/ 7k (guaranteed) +4k for 1L/ ~46k/ 138k/ 94
UNH/ 42k (full ride, good standing)/ 16k/ 48k/ 119

I went to visit Oregon and loved the campus/ area/ everything and was not impressed by Syracuse (especially because they do not offer a bigger scholarship). Currently, I have a deposit down at both schools as I was hoping to get more money from either school (fingers still crossed), and I received the full ride offer from UNH after the original deadline, luckily all I have to do is accept the offer by June 1st as well so there is time/ the same deadline. I am visiting UNH this Friday.

Everything I read says location is everything, but what if I have no plans of practicing law? I am hoping to become a sports agent, plan is NFL, so I am looking at Sports law programs. UNH is starting a new sports and entertainment law program and the head professor is very excited to meet me. Oregon is on the path to adding a specific sports law program but who knows. Syracuse offers a masters degree I could complete at the same time as my Law degree, but I feel if I am going to spend that much money I would rather go to Oregon. I would be financing entirely with student loans, - any money I could make during the summer. So, the main question is, is it insane to even consider turning down the full ride offer? Always wanted to go west and a big plus would be that Oregon's Law school is on their main campus, UNH is not. Thanks for any input.

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kalvano
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 08, 2013 10:24 am

This should end well.


1) Don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.
2) Especially don't go to law school to be a sports agent.
3) None of those schools are worth anywhere near that amount of debt.

lolfranks51
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby lolfranks51 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:26 am

kalvano wrote:This should end well.


1) Don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.
2) Especially don't go to law school to be a sports agent.
3) None of those schools are worth anywhere near that amount of debt.



+1

Also, if you want to be a sports agent -- start by getting on a practice squad. It's that, or you generally need connections.

rgrann12
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:31 am

kalvano wrote:This should end well.


1) Don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.
2) Especially don't go to law school to be a sports agent.
3) None of those schools are worth anywhere near that amount of debt.


Just wondering why you would say not to go to law school to become a sports agent?
And no school is worth as much as they charge.
Last edited by rgrann12 on Wed May 08, 2013 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 08, 2013 10:33 am

Because it won't help you, and especially not those law schools.

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northwood
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby northwood » Wed May 08, 2013 10:35 am

UNH has a full scholarship with the only stip being "maintain good academic standing"?? idtake that over cuse and Oregon every day of the week... but if you have no intention of practicing law id go with D. none of the above

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 08, 2013 10:37 am

This depends how receptive you are to changing your mind.
Your options in order of desirability
Don't go to law school>retake and get a much better LSAT>>>>UNH>>Syracuse>>>Oregon.
(Because at least your whole life won't be fucked with debt because of UNH.)

rad lulz
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 08, 2013 10:39 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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nickb285
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby nickb285 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:45 am

None of those schools are worth attending if they're not free. Their USNWR ranking is wholly irrelevant. What matters is their low job prospects, especially compared to how much they want you to pay:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=syracuse
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=franklinpierce
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=oregon

Furthermore, if you want to be a sports agent, law school is a really, really stupid move. Nothing you do in law school will actually help you become a sports agent. The ONLY reason to go to law school--yes, the ONLY reason--is if you actually want to be a lawyer. Otherwise it is an absolutely terrible idea. If you want to be a sports agent, study business and marketing, which you can do for far cheaper than even low-ranked law schools, and network your ass off with established agents and athletes. DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

Elston Gunn wrote:Your options in order of desirability
Don't go to law school>retake and get a much better LSAT>>>>UNH>>Syracuse>>>Oregon.
(Because at least your whole life won't be fucked with debt because of UNH.)

+1

rgrann12
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:47 am

Elston Gunn wrote:This depends how receptive you are to changing your mind.
Your options in order of desirability
Don't go to law school>retake and get a much better LSAT>>>>UNH>>Syracuse>>>Oregon.
(Because at least your whole life won't be fucked with debt because of UNH.)


UNH is "40th anniversary" scholarship so pretty much a take it or leave it at this point. Cuse offered me their highest scholarship. Does it help that the sports law program is going to be part of the Intellectual property program at UNH which is top 10 in the nation?
Also, should have mentioned I have a good job lined up in a legal department should I want it- if sports law doesn't work out. Getting the J.D. to keep my options open (not opposed to being a lawyer, just not my plan right now).

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 08, 2013 10:51 am

rgrann12 wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:This depends how receptive you are to changing your mind.
Your options in order of desirability
Don't go to law school>retake and get a much better LSAT>>>>UNH>>Syracuse>>>Oregon.
(Because at least your whole life won't be fucked with debt because of UNH.)


UNH is "40th anniversary" scholarship so pretty much a take it or leave it at this point. Cuse offered me their highest scholarship. Does it help that the sports law program is going to be part of the Intellectual property program at UNH which is top 10 in the nation?
Also, should have mentioned I have a good job lined up in a legal department should I want it- if sports law doesn't work out. Getting the J.D. to keep my options open (not opposed to being a lawyer, just not my plan right now).

Well, how sure is the job, and is it something you'd be willing to spend three years being poor and going into $50K debt to get? Because very likely that'll be the result out of UNH. But if that seems worth it to you, and the job is truly a sure thing, then I won't try to stop you going somewhere for free.

rgrann12
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 11:00 am

Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 08, 2013 11:03 am

rgrann12 wrote:Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.

I think it's more "law school will not help you be a sports agent" than "an MBA will help you more." We don't know much about other grad programs, but we know that people become sports agents by having lots of connections to athletes and maybe supplementing that with a JD. They don't become agents by just attending law school and applying to jobs.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed May 08, 2013 11:06 am

The other thing is that law school specialization rankings are meaningless and generally don't add value to the degree. A general degree from a school with better employment statistics is way better than a degree specializing in something (IP/sports law) from a school is poor employment statistics.

rgrann12
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 11:15 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
rgrann12 wrote:Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.

I think it's more "law school will not help you be a sports agent" than "an MBA will help you more." We don't know much about other grad programs, but we know that people become sports agents by having lots of connections to athletes and maybe supplementing that with a JD. They don't become agents by just attending law school and applying to jobs.


Well aware of this, but that can be said for any job. This is why I picked the schools I did. The head of the UNH program has many connections in the sports world and frequently connects students to agents and other sports professionals. Oregon has had a strong football program (and last year bball as well) where I would be attempting to intern with the football operations. And Cuse bball speaks for itself. This thread was to ask about turning down a full ride. You were one of the helpful respondents and I thank you, pretty sure I never said it would be any easy thing to do, just show up for 3 years of school and become a successful agent. Was simply looking for any opinions if any school was better for what I am looking to do.

rgrann12
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rgrann12 » Wed May 08, 2013 11:17 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The other thing is that law school specialization rankings are meaningless and generally don't add value to the degree. A general degree from a school with better employment statistics is way better than a degree specializing in something (IP/sports law) from a school is poor employment statistics.


Thanks, thats what I was wondering because obviously the school is going to brag about it, but wasn't sure how meaningful it actually was.

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kalvano
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 08, 2013 11:40 am

Oh good, another 0L thread where a question is asked, the response is overwhelmingly negative, and then it's "well, I never said it would be easy but I'm a special snowflake."


Want to be a sports agent? Start getting to know up and coming athletes. Don't go to law school. Or, conversely, if you insist on going to law school, got to a much, much better school and then work for Proskauer and get some inside sports law knowledge going on, then try your hand at being an agent.

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby fruitoftheloom » Wed May 08, 2013 2:45 pm

rgrann12 wrote:Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.

I know a couple of sports agents. Most of them played a sport in college and/or went pro for some period of time. You need a lot of really good connections to athletes and coaches to be a successful sports agent. The sports agents I know didn't go to law school - they're not acting as lawyers. It's connections first, and education is very secondary. Also, outside of the connections angle, it's sort of like LA is with television and movies - there are so many people who want to do it that they can (and will) pay people basically minimum wage (or less) to do grunt work. That person hopes to have a Horatio Algers outcome, but it happens less than 1% of the time. If you want to be a sports agent, go play professional sports, make a ton of connections, and then find some up and coming talent who will let you manage them.

sparty99
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby sparty99 » Wed May 08, 2013 2:55 pm

rgrann12 wrote:So, I have narrowed my choices down for Law School to 3 choices (the 3 schools that offered scholarships and seemed interested) Syracuse, University of Oregon, and University of New Hampshire- was accepted to all 5 (UConn, U of Miami). GPA was 3.43 and LSAT was 157. (helped somewhat that my final 2 years my GPA was around a 3.8) My current offers are as follows, with the school/ scholarship offer/ and total cost of attendance per year/total/ law school rank 2013

Syracuse/ 33k per year(2.8 GPA)/ 29k/ 86k/ 96
Oregon/ 7k (guaranteed) +4k for 1L/ ~46k/ 138k/ 94
UNH/ 42k (full ride, good standing)/ 16k/ 48k/ 119

I went to visit Oregon and loved the campus/ area/ everything and was not impressed by Syracuse (especially because they do not offer a bigger scholarship). Currently, I have a deposit down at both schools as I was hoping to get more money from either school (fingers still crossed), and I received the full ride offer from UNH after the original deadline, luckily all I have to do is accept the offer by June 1st as well so there is time/ the same deadline. I am visiting UNH this Friday.

Everything I read says location is everything, but what if I have no plans of practicing law? I am hoping to become a sports agent, plan is NFL, so I am looking at Sports law programs. UNH is starting a new sports and entertainment law program and the head professor is very excited to meet me. Oregon is on the path to adding a specific sports law program but who knows. Syracuse offers a masters degree I could complete at the same time as my Law degree, but I feel if I am going to spend that much money I would rather go to Oregon. I would be financing entirely with student loans, - any money I could make during the summer. So, the main question is, is it insane to even consider turning down the full ride offer? Always wanted to go west and a big plus would be that Oregon's Law school is on their main campus, UNH is not. Thanks for any input.


All these school suck and I would not attend any of them, especially at the prices they are charging. New Hampshire? What state is that?

I know a couple of sports agent. One doesn't have a law degree. The other one does, met him through my law school. He also worked at a big law firm prior to becoming an agent. If you have no plans of practicing law, then why the hell would you get a law degree? Retake or don't go.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 08, 2013 3:45 pm

If you want to make sports connections via law school Id imagine you at LEAST have to attend a major franchise i.e Notre Dame, USC, or a BigTen with a good program like Michigan. You could retake to 167 and get the first two w/$. These would be the schools to target, and with a law-oriented backup plan.

sparty99 wrote:
All these school suck and I would not attend any of them, especially at the prices they are charging. New Hampshire? What state is that?



This isnt fair... I have nothing to say for UNH, but hell, Yale is in connecticut which os worse than new hampshire. Why the hate on new england?

FWIW it sounds like you want to do Oregon, so if you wont retake and you want a JD, go to oregon.

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Winston1984
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby Winston1984 » Wed May 08, 2013 4:05 pm

jbagelboy wrote:If you want to make sports connections via law school Id imagine you at LEAST have to attend a major franchise i.e Notre Dame, USC, or a BigTen with a good program like Michigan. You could retake to 167 and get the first two w/$. These would be the schools to target, and with a law-oriented backup plan.

sparty99 wrote:
All these school suck and I would not attend any of them, especially at the prices they are charging. New Hampshire? What state is that?



This isnt fair... I have nothing to say for UNH, but hell, Yale is in connecticut which os worse than new hampshire. Why the hate on new england?

FWIW it sounds like you want to do Oregon, so if you wont retake and you want a JD, go to oregon.


SEC trolling?

che3055
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby che3055 » Wed May 08, 2013 4:39 pm

rgrann12 wrote:Oregon has had a strong football program (and last year bball as well) where I would be attempting to intern with the football operations. And Cuse bball speaks for itself.


This is a pretty naive way to choose a law school. This should not even be a factor. Even if it were, there are many higher ranking schools than Oregon and Syracuse with large, successful athletic programs that would be capable of providing these same, mostly perceived, connections.

As has been stated here, a law degree is not necessary to become a sports agent. I know several agents personally - one has a law degree, played a professional sport briefly, went on to represent players that he knew through this sport (and not his T2 law school), and now (from what I've heard from others), is struggling to find new clients, since the majority of his relationships were forged while he was in the league. Another one I know has an MBA from a top-flight business school, and is doing just fine. Again, most of his clients came from connections. Really, neither an MBA nor a JD is sufficient or even required to become an agent. Connections, however, are required.

When it comes to specialty programs, again, as it has been said here, they are mostly irrelevant. I recently spoke with general counsel for one of the top sports agencies in the country about his advice in picking a law school. He said pretty much to go to the best school possible. Even if specialty programs were of significant merit in sports law, Marquette and Tulane are the go-to schools for this (still doesn't make them good options). If you absolutely must have some sort of specialization towards sports in your law school experience, UCLA might be your best bet. Or, probably even better than UNH, Marquette, or Tulane, would be to just go to a higher-ranked school that has an entertainment/sports law journal, and get with that (UVA, Texas, UCLA all have them).

The problem is, however, that sports law is an incredibly niche field, and player representation (as previously discussed) doesn't always fit in to it. If you want to do sports law, you should open yourself up to the idea of representing sports organizations versus individuals. That career path will usually take you from law school, to a BigLaw firm that has sports organizations as clients (Proskauer was mentioned here earlier), and then, maybe, if you're lucky, you can go in house at a sports organization. But by following that, you should see that maximizing your chances at BigLaw is your first step, and, unfortunately, none of the three schools you listed give you a very good shot at that (let alone for the price).

TL;DR - Your reasons for wanting any of those three schools are flimsy at best, and you would be much better served in the long run, for a career in sports law, by retaking the LSAT and shooting higher.

timbs4339
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu May 09, 2013 2:16 am

rgrann12 wrote:Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.


I attended a talk with a panel of several "sports lawyers" who followed one of two paths:

1) They were college athletes who went to law school and leveraged their personal connections into legal or agent positions.

2) They went to elite schools, worked for Proskauer or another biglaw firm that had leagues or teams as clients, got lucky and established a rapport with those clients, and went in house.

Note that the dude who was captain of the flag football team in college or fantasy football league champ three years running is not on this list.

Specialty programs are flame. They are marketing gimmicks. The guy who goes to a T10, takes ZERO sports law or entertainment law classes, and gets a SA at Proskauer will have a tiny chance of becoming a sports lawyer, yet his chances will be infinitely better than the guy who is in the sports law program at UNH.

rad lulz
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 09, 2013 2:22 am

timbs4339 wrote:The guy who goes to a T10, takes ZERO sports law or entertainment law classes, and gets a SA at Proskauer will have a tiny chance of becoming a sports lawyer, yet his chances will be infinitely better than the guy who is in the sports law program at UNH.

In fact, from a T10, you can even get Proskauer with comparatively blahhh grades

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romothesavior
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Re: Turning down bigger scholarships?

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 09, 2013 2:26 am

rgrann12 wrote:Just wondering why everyone is completely bashing law school to become a sports agent? Any personal experience with this? Do you even know any agents? Or are you just going off of what everyone else has written on other forums you have read? Every agent/ other sports professional I have been connected to has said law school is a much better option for agents and that the MBA/undergrad degree by themselves in sports management are essentially useless, but I always see the opposite opinions on forums. Curious as to why this is.

Do you know how hard it is to become a sports agent? It's insanely competitive, and you need connections.

You are extremely naive and poorly informed if you think becoming a successful sports agent is an attainable goal from these schools.




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