Your Opinion on Law Schools

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nickb285
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby nickb285 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:47 am

cavtrpr wrote:No BYU for you Nick?


Oh dear God no.

I'm not LDS, and honestly even if I were I think BYU would be too much to handle.

Randomnumbers
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby Randomnumbers » Wed May 08, 2013 1:23 am

Schools don't care about retakes, so take the June test. Study as much as you can before it, and hopefully you'll do well. But either way, retake in December, plan to study your ass off, and you'll do fine applying once you get the December scores back. With the downturn in numbers, I really think the only schools where it might matter that you apply early is ~T6. I only recommend taking the June test also because A) I think you'll do really well if you put in solid work on the games between then and now, and B) it'll minimize the risks of you just having a really off day in December. And if you don't get the numbers you need on either one, I think you'll be fine waiting another year. With that diagnostic, you should be able to get into the 170's giving you a decent shot at a good T14.

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Teflon_Don
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby Teflon_Don » Wed May 08, 2013 1:30 am

Dude, don't go to law school..

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Tekrul
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby Tekrul » Wed May 08, 2013 1:31 am

Tagged. I want to come back and add to this once I've had a night of sleep.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby cavtrpr » Wed May 08, 2013 2:11 am

Teflon_Don wrote:Dude, don't go to law school..


Why do you hang around law school forums if your advice is such?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby SemperLegal » Wed May 08, 2013 3:25 am

cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for that info, Semper. I didn't know that. Not to challenge you, but are you sure that that rule is not limited to undergraduate programs?



Positive. It was part of the Post 911 GI Bill 2.0 provisions that equalized the national maximum for private schools at 16k (now 19K). They omitted the words "undergraduate" from the section that authorized coverage of full tuition at public institutes of higher learning. There was some debate on these boards, and others, whether the VA would interpret that to mean that graduate school is fully covered up to in state tuition. I was the in the guinea pig class. My tuition bill is zero, life is good.

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d330
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby d330 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:49 pm

Your undergraduate GPA doesn't help you, but your service will. All of the advice I've read here makes sense, particularly if you know that you want to practice law. If I were you I'd just focus on the LSAT. You'll be taking the test quite some time from now but you can begin developing a real study plan. I'd look at these two cites:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=120471

http://7sage.com/logic-game-explanations/

One is the tls page on LSAT prep, the other is a site that runs through all the logic games as free youtube videos. You can't beat it for understanding your own deficiencies.

None of the advice people have given matters if you bomb the LSAT. Go out and get that 170+ and then you are in the game. I'd also been thinking seriously about how you want to frame your application. Sadly, there are multiple strategies and you may want to go to law school to do X but have a narrative history and story line that makes a focus on X more attractive to law schools. Frankly you probably don't know what you'll end up doing anyway so I'd go with figuring out what the latter is, writing an outstanding personal statement, getting letters of rec that work well and knowing that you deserve to go to school for free given your service.

Best of luck.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 08, 2013 1:08 pm

d330 wrote:
None of the advice people have given matters if you bomb the LSAT. Go out and get that 170+ and then you are in the game. I'd also been thinking seriously about how you want to frame your application. Sadly, there are multiple strategies and you may want to go to law school to do X but have a narrative history and story line that makes a focus on X more attractive to law schools. Frankly you probably don't know what you'll end up doing anyway so I'd go with figuring out what the latter is, writing an outstanding personal statement, getting letters of rec that work well and knowing that you deserve to go to school for free given your service.



+1
This is true for many people. I focused my application on international patent/IP, but I probably won't end up practicing IP lit because I'm several chem/bio courses shy of patent eligibility and thats basically a prerequisite in this job market. I could see that with my pre-law work history, UG major, connections, ect. that it would be the best way for me to frame my application and went with it. Definitely make a compelling case for why you want to be an attorney and how your background and experiences have informed that decision.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby cavtrpr » Wed May 08, 2013 2:10 pm

I was playing around with personal statement ideas and I thought I could detail my desire for criminal work. Tie it into some moral and ideological standard for myself, and use my service in the army as evidence for my commitment to public service or something.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Wed May 08, 2013 5:30 pm

You're approaching this in totally the wrong way. You ignored feedback about waiting or different test dates. What you're setting yourself up for is having a very great personal statement that never gets read because you're below both medians. You're focusing on the wrong things. None of this matters till your #'s matter. You should only focus on LSAT, and avoid the temptation to become a special snowflake.

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romothesavior
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 08, 2013 6:57 pm

As others have said, if you are scoring low 160s with barely any practice, you would very easily score in the high 160s or 170s with adequate studying, especially since games is so learnable. Even with a 3.1, I've got to think that a veteran with a high 160s/170s will have some very, very good options. You should maximize your potential by studying hard for the October or December tests. It would be an absolute shame for you to sell yourself short by doing only a month's worth of studying.

froglee
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby froglee » Wed May 08, 2013 8:52 pm

How old are you?

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cavtrpr
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby cavtrpr » Wed May 08, 2013 10:07 pm

26, why?

And to the above poster:

romothesavior wrote:As others have said, if you are scoring low 160s with barely any practice, you would very easily score in the high 160s or 170s with adequate studying, especially since games is so learnable. Even with a 3.1, I've got to think that a veteran with a high 160s/170s will have some very, very good options. You should maximize your potential by studying hard for the October or December tests. It would be an absolute shame for you to sell yourself short by doing only a month's worth of studying.


It cannot be October. I could do December.

bananapeanutbutter wrote:You're approaching this in totally the wrong way. You ignored feedback about waiting or different test dates. What you're setting yourself up for is having a very great personal statement that never gets read because you're below both medians. You're focusing on the wrong things. None of this matters till your #'s matter. You should only focus on LSAT, and avoid the temptation to become a special snowflake.


I didn't say I was going to write that personal statement next week. That concept was what I was aiming for, whenever I happen to be at the point at which it would be worthwhile.

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romothesavior
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 09, 2013 2:21 am

If you really can't do October, I would say study your face off (3-4 hours a day) between now and the June exam, see what happens, and then plan on retaking in December. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 172+. If you can get a 161 on a diagnostic, you can get a 170+ no sweat with sufficient prep, especially when your biggest weakness is logic games.

If you study hard between now and June, you'll probably do fairly well, high 160s maybe. It'll be easy to feel satisfied with that, and you may feel like that's good enough to get into some solid schools. And you're right, that's a solid LSAT score and you'll get into some solid schools with that. But this is very important: settling for a 160s score when you only studied for a month is selling yourself way, way short. I say this now because you need to just plan on retaking, maybe even taking a year off to do so. You have serious potential to kill the LSAT. You need to put in the man hours to make that happen.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby cavtrpr » Thu May 09, 2013 12:51 pm

Thanks for the advice Romo. My next question is:

Suppose for a moment that I take the June LSAT. Suppose I score a 169. I then retake in December and score a 175. Could I update my scores for that same admissions cycle and achieve different results?

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 09, 2013 12:53 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the advice Romo. My next question is:

Suppose for a moment that I take the June LSAT. Suppose I score a 169. I then retake in December and score a 175. Could I update my scores for that same admissions cycle and achieve different results?

Absolutely not. They've shot people for just thinking about this malfeasance.

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elterrible78
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby elterrible78 » Thu May 09, 2013 2:12 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the advice Romo. My next question is:

Suppose for a moment that I take the June LSAT. Suppose I score a 169. I then retake in December and score a 175. Could I update my scores for that same admissions cycle and achieve different results?


Yes, definitely. People even update with February LSAT scores and have it make a difference.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby cavtrpr » Thu May 09, 2013 6:03 pm

Quite the dichotomy of opinion there...

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romothesavior
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 09, 2013 6:23 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Quite the dichotomy of opinion there...

Yes you can update. But the earlier the exam and application the better, which is why we're on the October thing so hard.

Also there is a lingering myth out there that LSAT scores are averaged. A few years ago that may have been the case at a very small handful of schools. I doubt its the case anywhere these days

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby WokeUpInACar » Thu May 09, 2013 6:30 pm

cavtrpr wrote:Quite the dichotomy of opinion there...

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
cavtrpr wrote:Thanks for the advice Romo. My next question is:

Suppose for a moment that I take the June LSAT. Suppose I score a 169. I then retake in December and score a 175. Could I update my scores for that same admissions cycle and achieve different results?

Absolutely not. They've shot people for just thinking about this malfeasance.

This was sarcasm btw. The answer is 100% yes.

Randomnumbers
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby Randomnumbers » Thu May 09, 2013 7:03 pm

romothesavior wrote: But the earlier the exam and application the better, which is why we're on the October thing so hard.


He's going to be gone for a mandatory training thing during the October test - one of the only times I've seen someone with an actual good reason why they can't take at a specific time. He's since redacted the exact reason why, but it was pretty darned valid. This is why I think cramming hard for June and then lots of studying + retaking in December is the proper approach. (I'm too risk adverse to want only December).

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jbagelboy
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 09, 2013 9:38 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Also there is a lingering myth out there that LSAT scores are averaged. A few years ago that may have been the case at a very small handful of schools. I doubt its the case anywhere these days


Harvard may not take a strict mean of scores, but they definitely take prior/lower exam scores and cancels into account when comparing applicants. I agree this is phasing out, but it still was evident occasionally this cycle and they've stated that they do it

Jkeenan68R
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby Jkeenan68R » Sat May 25, 2013 8:11 pm

My advice for you is to look for a school that matches 100% on the yellow ribbon program or makes the debt seriously manageable. Their are alot of schools all throughout the rankings that will offer generous tuition. The post 9/11 GI bill is awesome and it made it an easy choice for me to target SMU, considering its pretty decent here in Texas and I have no problems with the DFW area.

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sinfiery
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby sinfiery » Sat May 25, 2013 9:44 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
cavtrpr wrote:5 for 23 in games, 22 for 26 on reasoning 1, 23 for 27 on reading comp, 22 for 25 on reasoning 2.


On my first, cold PT I was 14/24 games, 42/50 LR overall, and 27/27 on reading comp, which turned out to be a 166. And, looking back, games should have been worse (I randomly guessed "C" as time ran out on the last five questions, and it turned out that 3 of them actually were C, which is ridiculous luck). I got the Power Score Logic Games Bible, spent about ten days with it before doing another test, nailed a 175 on it, and never really looked back. I think you have plenty of time to get to being able to break 170 by the June test, and if you can do that, you'll have some good options.


Can't stress this advice enough. Get a powerscore logic games bible and see what happens.
I also went from basically guessing on my first few tests in LG to rarely missing even 1 question in a matter of hours. It's ridiculous.

Once you get your score, maybe EDing UVA with a 170+ will be your best bet. It's very hard to give advice for specific schools for you because not only do you not have an LSAT, you don't even have a range.

Although applying late hurts, can he not still ED UVA here with a 170? Which, with the COL plus full tuition covered, would be quite cheap.
Also, does applying later hurt splitters as much? From what I've seen, their cycles always start very late anyways.

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elterrible78
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Re: Your Opinion on Law Schools

Postby elterrible78 » Sat May 25, 2013 10:03 pm

sinfiery wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
cavtrpr wrote:5 for 23 in games, 22 for 26 on reasoning 1, 23 for 27 on reading comp, 22 for 25 on reasoning 2.


On my first, cold PT I was 14/24 games, 42/50 LR overall, and 27/27 on reading comp, which turned out to be a 166. And, looking back, games should have been worse (I randomly guessed "C" as time ran out on the last five questions, and it turned out that 3 of them actually were C, which is ridiculous luck). I got the Power Score Logic Games Bible, spent about ten days with it before doing another test, nailed a 175 on it, and never really looked back. I think you have plenty of time to get to being able to break 170 by the June test, and if you can do that, you'll have some good options.


Can't stress this advice enough. Get a powerscore logic games bible and see what happens.
I also went from basically guessing on my first few tests in LG to rarely missing even 1 question in a matter of hours. It's ridiculous.

Once you get your score, maybe EDing UVA with a 170+ will be your best bet. It's very hard to give advice for specific schools for you because not only do you not have an LSAT, you don't even have a range.

Although applying late hurts, can he not still ED UVA here with a 170? Which, with the COL plus full tuition covered, would be quite cheap.
Also, does applying later hurt splitters as much? From what I've seen, their cycles always start very late anyways.


The advantage to applying early, regardless of ED, for splitters at UVA is almost four times as big as the advantage for non-splitters, but the ED advantage is quite a bit bigger for splitters than non-splitters. I would say ED to UVA as early as possible, in the OP's situation. There's not a statistically significant difference in scholarship award for EDers and, anyway, Post-9/11 and Yellow Ribbon will have him largely covered.




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