Utah v. UW

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Poll

Utah
8
38%
University of Washington
13
62%
 
Total votes: 21

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WisemanAEKDB
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Utah v. UW

Postby WisemanAEKDB » Tue May 07, 2013 7:48 pm

Numbers: We're going off of raw tuition because COL will be taken care of regardless of school.

Utah: $31,000- in-state, after $42,200 scholarship with 3.35 (top 40%) stipulation.
UW: $125,000- OOS

Today, I got off of the waitlist at my #1: University of Washington.

Went to undergrad at Utah. Love the school. I am afraid of starting a family permanently here though, mostly due to the Mormon culture as I'm not Mormon. Would definitely love to relocate to Seattle. From what I was told, this is basically the most money anyone got this year from Utah. Also, almost no one gets money regardless at UW because of the lack of general scholarship availability.

Utah Pros: Can stay at my current apartment two blocks from the law building. Overall costs. Great friends. Would be living with a person I have lived with before, which reduces costs. A few ties with lawyers and professors here. No moving stress.

Utah Cons: Afraid of building a family in Utah. Definitely want to move somewhere else. The beer here is watered down. It is difficult to meet new people. The facilities are shit and they're actually ripping the building down in the next two years.

UW Pros: Seattle is amazing. The school looks great from when I toured. The law school facilities are great. The clinical programs seem very involved and well-built. The students had great things to say. The employment numbers are slightly better. The students seemed not worried at all about jobs and most of them had decent positions following 1L.

UW Cons: I will have to take time to move. I will have to (most likely) live alone, or room with someone I have never met. It's damn expensive, and there's no getting around that. Will have to leave friends.

So, what do you think? I know TLS is a giant number game, and that's cool, but I just want to go somewhere I can be the happiest and get the most for my money in terms of job outcomes and clinicals in school. I know law school isn't the happiest time in everyone's life, but I'd like to attempt to enjoy it as much as possible.

Thanks!

jayman12
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby jayman12 » Tue May 07, 2013 7:54 pm

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Last edited by jayman12 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nickb285
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby nickb285 » Tue May 07, 2013 8:07 pm

Congrats on getting in off the WL! That's awesome news.

For me personally, I'd be reluctant to take on that kind of debt for any non-T14, particularly given that the job numbers at UW are not much better than Utah's. That said, Utah isn't going to give you a great shot at the PNW. I'd say retake for more money but from what I've read UW doesn't give much to anybody so that may not even work.

I dunno man, if it were me I'd go Utah and then bust ass to try to get summer positions/internships/etc out of state, because that is just a lot of goddamned money. Tough call though.
Last edited by nickb285 on Wed May 08, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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WisemanAEKDB
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby WisemanAEKDB » Tue May 07, 2013 8:11 pm

nickb285 wrote:I dunno man, if it were me I'd go Utah and then bust ass to try to get summer positions/internships/etc out of state, because that is just a lot of goddamned money. Tough call though.


This is my basic train of thought currently, although I plan on busting ass regardless of school choice. Reyes and I had a long conversation and he said that "as long as your grades are high enough, you can really go wherever as long as you get the internships in the summer." He basically was referring to top 15% though. The amount of people who were offered this scholarship, as you were as well, is very slim (was 10-12 for the past few years).

I feel like Utah is safer because of money, friends, low-risk moving, however I am just not sure it's what I'm going to want long term.

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Yukos
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby Yukos » Tue May 07, 2013 8:13 pm

That's way too much money for UW and from what I've heard it's very difficult to get a job in Seattle without prior ties. I'd recommend working in the PNW for a year or two to get in-state tuition and some savings, retake for more schollies and go to UW for much cheaper.

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Bronck
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby Bronck » Tue May 07, 2013 8:17 pm

Of these choices, Utah. UW is NOT worth that much debt. It may be the best school in the PNW, but that doesn't mean that it places particularly well either, because of how parochial the market is.

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nickb285
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby nickb285 » Tue May 07, 2013 10:01 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I feel like Utah is safer because of money, friends, low-risk moving, however I am just not sure it's what I'm going to want long term.


I guess it depends on how not sure you are. I think paying $125k for UW is an objectively bad idea. So I guess the two good ideas here are:

1. Make peace with Utah. Sure, you can try to be one of that 10-20% that leaves the state (LST puts it around there for the last few years; granted, there's some self-selection, so figure if you bust your ass to leave the state you've got maybe a 25-30% chance of being successful in the short term), but the odds are against you being able to work outside of Utah, and especially outside of the Mountain West, in the next decade. If you decide that you're okay with potentially living here until your mid-30s, then Utah.

2. Do what Yukos said, move out of state, get residency, apply next year with a retake.

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hephaestus
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby hephaestus » Tue May 07, 2013 10:04 pm

I'd go Utah but I would be very wary about going if you don't want to stay there long term.

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WisemanAEKDB
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby WisemanAEKDB » Thu May 09, 2013 10:40 am

Update: They offered a small merit scholarship. For those of you saying Utah, how much COA would you choose UW for?

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nickb285
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby nickb285 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:57 am

I definitely wouldn't pay over $100k for UW. Your worst-case scenario at Utah (i.e. losing your scholarship after 1L) is about $60k. I would say, given your desire to leave Utah, UW is probably worth a bit more than that worst-case. So maybe $75-80k? Might even go as high as $90k since you're not paying COL, but anything above that I think is too much for UW.

K Rock
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby K Rock » Sat May 11, 2013 7:38 pm

Don't go to Utah unless you can get rid of that top 40% stip.

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hephaestus
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby hephaestus » Sat May 11, 2013 7:40 pm

nickb285 wrote:I definitely wouldn't pay over $100k for UW. Your worst-case scenario at Utah (i.e. losing your scholarship after 1L) is about $60k. I would say, given your desire to leave Utah, UW is probably worth a bit more than that worst-case. So maybe $75-80k? Might even go as high as $90k since you're not paying COL, but anything above that I think is too much for UW.

I would second this. I wouldn't do more than 80k or so.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 8:33 pm

Man oh man, you are DESPERATE to get out of Utah. What was the merit scholly from UW? 30k total? Would bring it below 100k at least. Any other person I would advice Utah, but you're itching to leave so badly I think you at least have a more justifiable alternative than Davis was.
Out of good conscious I can't recommend UW either though. So...

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dr123
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby dr123 » Sat May 11, 2013 8:55 pm

Yukos wrote:That's way too much money for UW and from what I've heard it's very difficult to get a job in Seattle without prior ties. I'd recommend working in the PNW for a year or two to get in-state tuition and some savings, retake for more schollies and go to UW for much cheaper.


i doubt seattle ties matter much for udub kids.

BigZuck
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby BigZuck » Sun May 12, 2013 12:37 am

Micdiddy wrote:Man oh man, you are DESPERATE to get out of Utah. What was the merit scholly from UW? 30k total? Would bring it below 100k at least. Any other person I would advice Utah, but you're itching to leave so badly I think you at least have a more justifiable alternative than Davis was.
Out of good conscious I can't recommend UW either though. So...


If UW is more justifiable than Davis, it's only marginally so. 66% versus 60% employment score, and Davis barely edges out UW in biglaw+clerkships. Even with the higher employment score UW might actually be an even worse option for the OP if the Seattle legal market really is as insular as people make it out to be and depending on cost.

OP, I definitely would not attend UW at the cost of attendance you are talking about. That's a disaster without big law and your chances is snagging that are really slim. UWs ranking is a mirage- it's really just the strongest regional in the state and comparable to a University of Houston type school (aka a lower tier 1 school) in terms of employment prospects.

What about deferring at UW for a year, moving to Seattle to establish ties, gain residency, and maybe even retaking the LSAT? What would your COA at UW look like then?

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WisemanAEKDB
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby WisemanAEKDB » Wed May 15, 2013 11:20 am

I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.

BigZuck
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby BigZuck » Wed May 15, 2013 12:19 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.


I think that was far and away the most sensible choice. Good luck man!

rad lulz
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 15, 2013 12:19 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.

Not too late to go get a job in the PNW dood

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nickb285
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby nickb285 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:21 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.


*Utah fist bump*

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Micdiddy
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby Micdiddy » Wed May 15, 2013 12:40 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.


Overall, you made the most sensible choice. Congrats and good luck!

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northwood
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby northwood » Wed May 15, 2013 12:47 pm

move to Washington for a year, work, become a Wa resident, then see if you can get in-state tuition. Sound like you don't see yourself in Utah for very long, so why start your professional network there if you don't see yourself being happy/ staying there???



for what its worth, taking a year off or twp may allow you to make new friends and establish yourself in the community. Don't make a rash/ emotional decision to go to UW right now just because you want/ need to escape Utah. If your plan would be much more tolerable by becoming a Washington resient, then do that- and go. ( Talk to UW's admissions about why you want to wait year to become eligible for instate tuition. they should understand)

PRgradBYU
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby PRgradBYU » Wed May 15, 2013 8:18 pm

WisemanAEKDB wrote:I chose Utah. I think the thing that threw it over the edge is the absurd interest costs. While I figure that UW might give me better employment prospects, the debt is incredibly limiting in the jobs I could reasonably pursue to actually pay it off. I just really wanted to explore many different options in this process. During the cycle, I've learned a lot and definitely become more accepting of beginning a career here in Utah. It's not the worst thing in the world, I'm just a pretty critical person.

We'll see where the adventure takes me, but I think I've made the right choice.


It's not so bad here in Utah. Good choice, although if I were you, I'd be wary of that top 40% stip.

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WisemanAEKDB
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Re: Utah v. UW

Postby WisemanAEKDB » Wed May 15, 2013 8:44 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:It's not so bad here in Utah. Good choice, although if I were you, I'd be wary of that top 40% stip.


I probably asked to have it removed about 5 times. No luck. Oh well, I'm going to work as hard as I can. At this point, that's all I can do. Thanks!




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