UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 7:33 pm

BigZuck wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I would never take anything offered to me without applying to it in the mail.

UMN and GWU are at least recognized as regionally prominent universities and reputable schools


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy


What is that referring to Zuck?

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Tue May 14, 2013 7:35 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 7:39 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I would never take anything offered to me without applying to it in the mail.

UMN and GWU are at least recognized as regionally prominent universities and reputable schools


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy


What is that referring to Zuck?


That fact that Rutgers oozes with Ivy League prestige.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Tue May 14, 2013 7:40 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 7:54 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I would never take anything offered to me without applying to it in the mail.

UMN and GWU are at least recognized as regionally prominent universities and reputable schools


Sadly, I already have done that once for UG...definitely won't be doing it again haha but I was just curious to see if most of the people advocating to not go to UMN or GW would go there for free..saw your headed to columbia, grats!
Also saw you applied to UMN but not GW..any reasons in particular?


Yea -- family connections to UMN, friends who went there, ect. I think its a good school actually and so many people from the twin cities area want to get in there. It's the only school I applied to in the area. I figured GWU wasn't worth the application fee since I was relatively confident I'd be in at GULC and that's where I'd go if I wanted to be in DC.

for UMN, It's facilities and faculty are T20 level but its employment numbers just can't keep up because the markets in the region aren't that big. A significant margin of the class won't be employed when they graduate, thats just the rough truth.

You'll take a lot of heat from people on here and I would too for saying this but I think if you went to UMN @ $28K/yr and slightly adjusted your big city dreams, you wouldn't be crazy or stupid. CoL is low there. Just be content with living in the twin cities for a few years and its a respectable option.

GWU at sticker is just a horrible decision hands down. CoL is far higher in DC also. I have nothing good to say about that choice

jdmonkey
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Wed May 15, 2013 11:09 am

BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I don't know why you don't think GW is a good law school. The people posting here are mostly obsessed with the top 14, so the posts are skewed. Will going there guarantee you the best job right away ...maybe... maybe not. But if you look around at people in leadership positions in law, business, and govt. you will see lots of GW Law Alums. Comparing Rutgers to GW is crazy. Rutgers is a piece of garbage in my opinion. If you want to work in law, and perhaps even big law, go to GW hands down. I've lived in both NYC and New England and have met successful GW alums in both regions. Rutgers...no. Don't be a follower; do what you feel is the best decision for you.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 15, 2013 12:27 pm

jdmonkey wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I don't know why you don't think GW is a good law school. The people posting here are mostly obsessed with the top 14, so the posts are skewed. Will going there guarantee you the best job right away ...maybe... maybe not. But if you look around at people in leadership positions in law, business, and govt. you will see lots of GW Law Alums. Comparing Rutgers to GW is crazy. Rutgers is a piece of garbage in my opinion. If you want to work in law, and perhaps even big law, go to GW hands down. I've lived in both NYC and New England and have met successful GW alums in both regions. Rutgers...no. Don't be a follower; do what you feel is the best decision for you.


this is very misleading advice, no offense. NO ONE has told OP to consider rutgers. And this isn't about whether "GW is a good law school". it's common knowledge that you can't base law school decisions now on the success of grads in the 80s and 90s. Sure, there are plenty of examples of successful GW alumns during boom time: my close college friends' parents are both GWU grads and extremely wealthy attorneys, dad owns a real estate law firm which helped build staples center, mom is in IP and they drive maseratis. But many "Top" schools like GWU are struggling more to employ their grads than ever before, and in a substantial number of cases those ties to well placed alumns are NOT holding up. It's the same thing everywhere: a family friend who went to BU law (another "Good Law school") is partner at Sidney in Chicago...GREAT job, very successful, but when I talked with him on the phone last month about choosing schools he said he would never hire a BU associate anymore with all the UChi/Harvard/CLS/NU grads with solid grades bidding for a select few spots. The same is surely happening in DC as T14 schools are snagging the fewer and fewer prestigious government, clerkship, and firm associate positions.

GWU is still a good school to go to if you can go for less than ~$100K debt IMO because there are still some incredible opportunities for grads out there, but honestly the chances of striking out are real and overwhelming and OP would be pushing $270-280K in federal loan debt, in other words, financial suicide.

UMN at least doesn't have major competition in its home market.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Wed May 15, 2013 3:38 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby timbs4339 » Wed May 15, 2013 4:37 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:
I don't think GW is not a good school. I actually like it. I was asking about rutgers to gauge those people were most vocal about not taking GW/UMN and see what they said about rutgers..basically if they said go to rutgers I was planning on discounting their advice in the future.



Uh, you should go to Rutgers with a full-ride over GW at sticker. That's not even debatable. At GW you have a 20% shot of winding up 250K in debt and working for TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND dollars per year.

Read this over six times. You are planning to go 250K in debt for a school that pays 20% of its grads a little more than minimum wage.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Wed May 15, 2013 4:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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jing87
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jing87 » Wed May 15, 2013 4:38 pm

GW's big law placement is boosted by those IP eligible kids, so if you can't be top 15% then it is still hard to get a big law job----only about 5% better than UMN, but much higher financial risk.
I understand you want big law,so do I and many other people. So why not go to UMN, try your best at the first year, if you can get 10% of your class then you can transfer to most T14, by then you have much better chance to get big law comparing to both GW and UMN.
But if you failed , then I guess 'not greay LSAT+not great GPA+not great first year grade at a non-T14=you are not a competitive candidate for big law probably you should adjust your career goal.'

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 15, 2013 4:49 pm

jing87 wrote:GW's big law placement is boosted by those IP eligible kids, so if you can't be top 15% then it is still hard to get a big law job----only about 5% better than UMN, but much higher financial risk.
I understand you want big law,so do I and many other people. So why not go to UMN, try your best at the first year, if you can get 10% of your class then you can transfer to most T14, by then you have much better chance to get big law comparing to both GW and UMN.
But if you failed , then I guess 'not greay LSAT+not great GPA+not great first year grade at a non-T14=you are not a competitive candidate for big law probably you should adjust your career goal.'


^ listen to the lady

BitterSplitter wrote:I def agree with you on this. Here's the one caveat that makes GWU and the extra debt the best option of the 3 (even if its not a good option independently); minns market I've heard is extremely unforgiving to out-of-state UMN grads with no ties because they are deemed a flight risk after a couple years in the firm if they are hired. I've heard of top 10-15%ers striking out specifically due to this reason. UMN was the safety net option but this puts a huge hole in the bottom of that net.

When you have a 2.78 GPA and law is your vocation, then you don't have the luxury of a 70% shot of success. It's just the way the world works and I'm ok with that. I appreciate all the thoughtful advice from you all and I hope I'm one of the few that can prove conventional TLS wisdom wrong (and I concede that that wisdom is correct for most)


Seriously splitter man don't do it. I support you dude but we'd be remiss not to steer you towards UMN here with all the energy an online forum can muster. I know a bunch of minnesota grads who graduated in 2011 and 2012 and got good jobs, some in big firms, some in state gov't, one guy even made it back to orange county clerking for a judge there. You can establish residency and fight for it.

Also I would hardly call law your "vocation" quite yet -- you may even end up not having any vocation and a mountain of nondischargeable debt.

Anyway, best of luck to you either way.

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Micdiddy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby Micdiddy » Wed May 15, 2013 5:17 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:
I don't think GW is not a good school. I actually like it. I was asking about rutgers to gauge those people were most vocal about not taking GW/UMN and see what they said about rutgers..basically if they said go to rutgers I was planning on discounting their advice in the future.



Uh, you should go to Rutgers with a full-ride over GW at sticker. That's not even debatable. At GW you have a 20% shot of winding up 250K in debt and working for TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND dollars per year.

Read this over six times. You are planning to go 250K in debt for a school that pays 20% of its grads a little more than minimum wage.


Absolutely Rutgers with full-ride is better than GW at sticker, because GW at sticker is near-suicidal, and Rutgers full-ride is simply a complete waste of three years and opportunity costs. Obviously, I would never advise anyone to take either of these options.
Op, you're going to choose to do whatever you want, but using language like this:

BitterSplitter wrote: I hope I'm one of the few that can prove conventional TLS wisdom wrong (and I concede that that wisdom is correct for most)


should reveal to yourself how wrong you are. The very concept of the special snowflake is that people know the special snowflake flaw exists and yet still see themselves as an exception.
Best of luck in your future, whatever you decide, but please, please, please do not go to GW at sticker.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Wed May 15, 2013 6:28 pm

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