UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 07, 2013 2:40 pm

UVAIce wrote:
But seriously, don't go to the U MN if you have no desire to practice in Minnesota.


I dont think there's a choice here. if OP wants to be a lawyer at a large firm, dropping the major market requirement, at least in the near foreseeable future, will be a necessary sacrifice

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 07, 2013 2:48 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
UVAIce wrote:
But seriously, don't go to the U MN if you have no desire to practice in Minnesota.


I dont think there's a choice here. if OP wants to be a lawyer at a large firm, dropping the major market requirement, at least in the near foreseeable future, will be a necessary sacrifice


Big law is close to impossible out of Minnesota, I don't think going to Minnesota is the ticket here. If he is cool with working at a small firm and has ties to Minnesota then I think going to Minnesota is an ok choice.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 07, 2013 2:55 pm

BigZuck wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
UVAIce wrote:
But seriously, don't go to the U MN if you have no desire to practice in Minnesota.


I dont think there's a choice here. if OP wants to be a lawyer at a large firm, dropping the major market requirement, at least in the near foreseeable future, will be a necessary sacrifice


Big law is close to impossible out of Minnesota, I don't think going to Minnesota is the ticket here. If he is cool with working at a small firm and has ties to Minnesota then I think going to Minnesota is an ok choice.


Close to impossible meaning ... about 15%. Either way you know the alternative is GWU at sticker so minnesota really is the only "choice".

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 07, 2013 3:00 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
UVAIce wrote:
But seriously, don't go to the U MN if you have no desire to practice in Minnesota.


I dont think there's a choice here. if OP wants to be a lawyer at a large firm, dropping the major market requirement, at least in the near foreseeable future, will be a necessary sacrifice


Big law is close to impossible out of Minnesota, I don't think going to Minnesota is the ticket here. If he is cool with working at a small firm and has ties to Minnesota then I think going to Minnesota is an ok choice.


Close to impossible meaning ... about 15%. Either way you know the alternative is GWU at sticker so minnesota really is the only "choice".


Assuming the OP has free will I am assuming he/she can "choose" not to go to law school at all

And 15% is such a small percentage I would write it off from happening if I went there. It would be a nice thing, but nothing I would count on. Certainly nothing I would gamble 100K+ on.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Tue May 07, 2013 4:49 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 07, 2013 4:55 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


You do realize that the "unreal advice" you got was the best advice ITT don't you? And that just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it any less real?

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Tue May 07, 2013 5:10 pm

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Last edited by BitterSplitter on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue May 07, 2013 5:14 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


You do realize that the "unreal advice" you got was the best advice ITT don't you? And that just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it any less real?


LOL so presumptious.. that's not the "unreal advice" I was talking about breh. I meant the ppl that just said idiot or retard. I was asking the people that said don't go at that price to either. Hence the nature of the questions. Read them again and you'll see that it was the people with dissenting opinions that I was actually asking for further advice

edit: in addition to asking those like sinf and noodley who said Minn outweighs GW


I'd say a full-tuition scholly to GW would make it worth attending over MN @ $84k. HTH.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby sinfiery » Tue May 07, 2013 5:23 pm

170-200k COA to attend GWU over UMN. A lot of UMNs benefits really go out the window if you aren't okay with Minnesota.

That being said, paying that much for the job outcomes at GWU should make you very uncomfortable. But I would attend GWU at that cost if my alternative was a low paying dead end job.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jing87 » Tue May 07, 2013 5:27 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


You do realize that the "unreal advice" you got was the best advice ITT don't you? And that just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it any less real?


LOL so presumptious.. that's not the "unreal advice" I was talking about breh. I meant the ppl that just said idiot or retard. I was asking the people that said don't go at that price to either. Hence the nature of the questions. Read them again and you'll see that it was the people with dissenting opinions that I was actually asking for further advice

edit: in addition to asking those like sinf and noodley who said Minn outweighs GW


for a moment I thought this was my post.
OP we are in the similar situation now, I got in UMN with full ride, GW give me 30k per year. so now is COA : UMN 55k vs GW 135 k
I have low GPA too, slight difference is I have both master and bachelor at Engineering, so pretty sure I will do IP law in the future.
I understand what you are saying here. I think Minneapolis is a lovely city except for the cold, and UMN is a great school. But I like DC , NY more and hope I can get big law job (yeah, I know many people would say it is a hard goal to reach anyway).
I was talking to my friend who is a partner at a big DC law firm about my options now. This what he told me " Jing, if I were on your shoes now I will choose GW, because I know I could work very hard and get top of my class and pay off my debt. But about you, you are a huge slacker as I know, so you probably should go to UMN, it is too risky to take that huge debt from GW under such an uncertain economy.'
Let me know if you make your decision. Good luck!

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby Cellar-door » Tue May 07, 2013 5:29 pm

At least 75K bare minimum, but more likely something over 90K would make me feel OK about GW in your situation.
Even with the 84K Minnesota isn't a great option if you aren't ok with living there for quite some time after graduating.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue May 07, 2013 5:32 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


I wouldn't pay more than $60-80k for any school outside the T14.

Edit: Might do $100k for like the T20 + Fordham, but probably not GWU because of all their school-funded jobs and not UMN because nonexistent biglaw placement.

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby TheNextAmendment » Tue May 07, 2013 6:17 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


I wouldn't pay more than $60-80k for any school outside the T14.

Edit: Might do $100k for like the T20 + Fordham, but probably not GWU because of all their school-funded jobs and not UMN because nonexistent biglaw placement.


Glad I saw the edit, but I'm gonna share my response as if you didn't- "Oh okay Harvard, you're totally right...UT or UCLA isn't worth attending with fully scholly and stipend. I will kneel and pray to your H degree."

@OP- around 150k was my cutoff. I think even that's high, but still reasonable.

@Jing- Not to put you on the spot or anything, but how did you go from GW WL>>>>10k/year scholly>>>>30k/YEAR SCHOLLY. Im confused....

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby Dream Weave » Tue May 07, 2013 6:51 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:Thanks to everyone who took the time to write actual suggestions and responses...I'm hoping to hear back from gwu about my scholarship negotiation soon...so for those of you who offered real advice I'd like to Ask you two questions:

1. Knowing my goals, at what scholly amount would gwu outweigh minn at 84k?

2. At what scholly amount is gwu worth the price?


I wouldn't pay more than $60-80k for any school outside the T14.

Edit: Might do $100k for like the T20 + Fordham, but probably not GWU because of all their school-funded jobs and not UMN because nonexistent biglaw placement.


Glad I saw the edit, but I'm gonna share my response as if you didn't- "Oh okay Harvard, you're totally right...UT or UCLA isn't worth attending with fully scholly and stipend. I will kneel and pray to your H degree."

@OP- around 150k was my cutoff. I think even that's high, but still reasonable.

@Jing- Not to put you on the spot or anything, but how did you go from GW WL>>>>10k/year scholly>>>>30k/YEAR SCHOLLY. Im confused....


partially need based?

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Thu May 09, 2013 1:06 pm

If you want to do M&A you don't need to go to the best law school. I have met people at Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse that went to Pace and Buffalo. Employers know that law school admissions is not completely merit based (cough affirmative action and parents donating to the school), and that some people choose to go to a TTT because of their finances. If you are serious about M&A get a Linkedin account and start trying to add people for the company you want to work for. Also start cold calling boutique investment banks and ask about internships. You might have to start out in back office like compliance, but once you get into a bulge bracket you can transfer to IBD or S&T. Ask Minnesota for alumni contacts that work on Wall Street. Go to NY and get coffee with them. Ask you undergrad for a list of alums that work on Wall Street. Life is about who you know . It is possible to do M&A but not likely unless you start networking your butt off. I have a friend that graduated with a 2.0 and talked his way into an IBD analyst position. M&A is about selling, selling, selling. Some people have that trait and others don't. It can't be taught in school. You sure as hell have to sell yourself.
Last edited by jdmonkey on Thu May 09, 2013 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Thu May 09, 2013 1:22 pm

jdmonkey wrote:If you want to do M&A you don't need to go to the best law school. I have met people at Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse that went to Pace and Buffalo. Employers know that law school admissions is not completely merit based (cough affirmative action), and that some people choose to go to a TTT because of their finances. If you are serious about M&A get a Linkedin account and start trying to add people for the company you want to work for. Also start cold calling boutique investment banks and ask about internships. You might have to start out in back office like compliance, but once you get into a bulge bracket you can transfer to IBD or S&T. Ask Minnesota for alumni contacts that work on Wall Street. Go to NY and get coffee with them. Ask you undergrad for a list of alums that work on Wall Street. Life is about who you know . It is possible to do M&A but not likely unless you start networking your butt off. I have a friend that graduated with a 2.0 and talked his way into an IBD analyst position. M&A is about selling, selling, selling. Some people have that trait and others don't. It can't be taught in school. You sure as hell have to sell yourself.


wut

Just randomly fly to New York to get coffee with people? Come on bro

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Thu May 09, 2013 1:36 pm

BigZuck wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:If you want to do M&A you don't need to go to the best law school. I have met people at Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse that went to Pace and Buffalo. Employers know that law school admissions is not completely merit based (cough affirmative action), and that some people choose to go to a TTT because of their finances. If you are serious about M&A get a Linkedin account and start trying to add people for the company you want to work for. Also start cold calling boutique investment banks and ask about internships. You might have to start out in back office like compliance, but once you get into a bulge bracket you can transfer to IBD or S&T. Ask Minnesota for alumni contacts that work on Wall Street. Go to NY and get coffee with them. Ask you undergrad for a list of alums that work on Wall Street. Life is about who you know . It is possible to do M&A but not likely unless you start networking your butt off. I have a friend that graduated with a 2.0 and talked his way into an IBD analyst position. M&A is about selling, selling, selling. Some people have that trait and others don't. It can't be taught in school. You sure as hell have to sell yourself.


wut

Just randomly fly to New York to get coffee with people? Come on bro


No contact them first. Build rapport. Try to get a phone call in. Then say I'm going to be in NY these x days would you be free to get coffee. I've done this successfully in the past. Wall Street people often find their jobs so boring they look forward to any excuse to get out of the office. Sometimes they will arrange a tour for you with HR. They might not need somebody on their desk, but they will usually know somebody that does. Are the odds great that the first person you have coffee with will give you a job no, but the more people you add in your network the better your odds become. Once you get your meetings lined up google them. Where are they from? What other companies have they worked for? What charitable boards are they on? You can also ask questions like what do you like to do when you get some free time or what activities were you involved in at college. Once the conversation turns from finance to personal matters you know you are doing well.

BigZuck
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Thu May 09, 2013 1:50 pm

jdmonkey wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:If you want to do M&A you don't need to go to the best law school. I have met people at Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse that went to Pace and Buffalo. Employers know that law school admissions is not completely merit based (cough affirmative action), and that some people choose to go to a TTT because of their finances. If you are serious about M&A get a Linkedin account and start trying to add people for the company you want to work for. Also start cold calling boutique investment banks and ask about internships. You might have to start out in back office like compliance, but once you get into a bulge bracket you can transfer to IBD or S&T. Ask Minnesota for alumni contacts that work on Wall Street. Go to NY and get coffee with them. Ask you undergrad for a list of alums that work on Wall Street. Life is about who you know . It is possible to do M&A but not likely unless you start networking your butt off. I have a friend that graduated with a 2.0 and talked his way into an IBD analyst position. M&A is about selling, selling, selling. Some people have that trait and others don't. It can't be taught in school. You sure as hell have to sell yourself.


wut

Just randomly fly to New York to get coffee with people? Come on bro


No contact them first. Build rapport. Try to get a phone call in. Then say I'm going to be in NY these x days would you be free to get coffee. I've done this successfully in the past. Wall Street people often find their jobs so boring they look forward to any excuse to get out of the office. Sometimes they will arrange a tour for you with HR. They might not need somebody on their desk, but they will usually know somebody that does. Are the odds great that the first person you have coffee with will give you a job no, but the more people you add in your network the better your odds become. Once you get your meetings lined up google them. Where are they from? What other companies have they worked for? What charitable boards are they on? You can also ask questions like what do you like to do when you get some free time or what activities were you involved in at college. Once the conversation turns from finance to personal matters you know you are doing well.


Who has the money to just randomly fly to NY for coffee?

jdmonkey
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Thu May 09, 2013 2:00 pm

BigZuck wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:If you want to do M&A you don't need to go to the best law school. I have met people at Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse that went to Pace and Buffalo. Employers know that law school admissions is not completely merit based (cough affirmative action), and that some people choose to go to a TTT because of their finances. If you are serious about M&A get a Linkedin account and start trying to add people for the company you want to work for. Also start cold calling boutique investment banks and ask about internships. You might have to start out in back office like compliance, but once you get into a bulge bracket you can transfer to IBD or S&T. Ask Minnesota for alumni contacts that work on Wall Street. Go to NY and get coffee with them. Ask you undergrad for a list of alums that work on Wall Street. Life is about who you know . It is possible to do M&A but not likely unless you start networking your butt off. I have a friend that graduated with a 2.0 and talked his way into an IBD analyst position. M&A is about selling, selling, selling. Some people have that trait and others don't. It can't be taught in school. You sure as hell have to sell yourself.


wut

Just randomly fly to New York to get coffee with people? Come on bro


No contact them first. Build rapport. Try to get a phone call in. Then say I'm going to be in NY these x days would you be free to get coffee. I've done this successfully in the past. Wall Street people often find their jobs so boring they look forward to any excuse to get out of the office. Sometimes they will arrange a tour for you with HR. They might not need somebody on their desk, but they will usually know somebody that does. Are the odds great that the first person you have coffee with will give you a job no, but the more people you add in your network the better your odds become. Once you get your meetings lined up google them. Where are they from? What other companies have they worked for? What charitable boards are they on? You can also ask questions like what do you like to do when you get some free time or what activities were you involved in at college. Once the conversation turns from finance to personal matters you know you are doing well.


Who has the money to just randomly fly to NY for coffee?


You have to look at it as an investment initially. I used to take the bus to the city and stay at my friends' houses. Then once I started working in the city it obviously got easier. I was trying to move from a medium to a large bank. But if you get an interview, any large bank is going to fly you into the city anyways and pay for your hotel if you live far away. So you will know what days you will be in the city and parlay those days into more interviews, by doing more meet and greets with alums. You will find yourself returning to the city multiple times and then it is on you to nail the interviews.

jdmonkey
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Thu May 09, 2013 2:11 pm

I would also see if your school has a subscription to the Vault Guide for Investment Banking Interviews. Those will help you if they ask "technicals" like if depreciation increases by 10% how will this impact the 3 financial statements.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm

jdmonkey wrote:I would also see if your school has a subscription to the Vault Guide for Investment Banking Interviews. Those will help you if they ask "technicals" like if depreciation increases by 10% how will this impact the 3 financial statements.


One would hope any budding M&A attorney would understand how depreciation affects cash flow and A/L without a cheat sheet

jdmonkey
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jdmonkey » Thu May 09, 2013 3:33 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:I would also see if your school has a subscription to the Vault Guide for Investment Banking Interviews. Those will help you if they ask "technicals" like if depreciation increases by 10% how will this impact the 3 financial statements.


One would hope any budding M&A attorney would understand how depreciation affects cash flow and A/L without a cheat sheet


Yes God willing.

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BitterSplitter
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BitterSplitter » Tue May 14, 2013 7:09 pm

.
Last edited by BitterSplitter on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 14, 2013 7:12 pm

BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I would never take anything offered to me without applying to it in the mail.

UMN and GWU are at least recognized as regionally prominent universities and reputable schools

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Re: UMN 84k or GWU at sticker or close to it

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 7:27 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BitterSplitter wrote:this question is just for the people who think GWU at sticker or UMN with 28k/yr is not worth attending:

Would you take a full ride plus stipend at Rutgers-Newark over either of those two options? Also, would you consider it to be worth it independent of being compared with the first two options? I just recieved an unsolicited full ride in the mail LOL. Thanks in advance for the input!

Edit: Stipend is only for moving cost - 1 time $5k. not living stipend. Not sure if stipend is even the appropriate word for this but yeah


I would never take anything offered to me without applying to it in the mail.

UMN and GWU are at least recognized as regionally prominent universities and reputable schools


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy




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