Vote on Curricular Change Postponed

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domino
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby domino » Wed May 01, 2013 1:54 pm

This was Dean Rangappa's response from the FB group:

Asha Rangappa Hi all. The committee that came up with this policy was comprised of faculty, including two of the clinical faculty (Mike Wishnie and Muneer Ahmad, whom many of you saw and spoke with), and students. The idea was to place the type of learning that occurs in one-on-one interactions into a separate, ungraded category (which really only emphasizes how much one-on-one learning there is here that they had to form a committee about it). The idea was to make the grading basis for these types of learning, which include the practical component of clinics, to ungraded credits (CR/F). This is complemented, however, by expanding the clinics to include a seminar component with the instructor, which is graded (H/P). A little over half of the 83 credits you need to graduate have to be graded, so students are worried that making the clinics ungraded it means that they can't do as much. But the committee looked at this issue carefully, and as Rebecca pointed out, it still allows you to take a clinic each semester starting in your 1L year. In fact, I believe that when they looked at the actual distribution of student clinic participation, they found that only three current students would have fallen short of the required graded credits under the new policy -- so they felt that it would not make a huge change in how students participate in clinics. There has been no change in how clinics are offered, when/how you can sign up, the substance of the clinics, etc.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Asha Rangappa I should note that the policy is also in the "review and comment" phase, where students can give feedback. So it has not actually been adopted.

naruhodo
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby naruhodo » Wed May 01, 2013 2:08 pm

Frankly, if you were leaning toward YLS to begin with, this shouldn't change your decision. We still have excellent clinical opportunities here with wonderful clinical faculty, and the academic freedom and non-competitive culture here is excellent.

However, I think this entire debacle is a warning to all of the incoming 1Ls that not everything is as rosy at YLS as ASW may have portrayed it to be. We have immense problems in terms of diversity in many facets of the school (including in faculty hiring), a poor flow of information about clerkships and other professional opportunities, and the ways in which this school is run. That said, none of these things may be unique to YLS, but as a YLS student, I can tell you these problems are real.

Perhaps most importantly and most troublingly, at YLS, the faculty has much more power and autonomy over policymaking decisions than what many students at YLS understand to be the case at other law schools. This proposal -- dropped on us during reading period with the faculty vote just three weeks away -- was handled in an especially poor manner, but it's only emblematic of how many decisions at this school are made. Despite YLS's obsession with process, policymaking processes at this school are usually opaque and shielded from student input, even when students are the constituency most affected by a particular decision.

There are plenty of things to rave about YLS, but there are also plenty of things wrong with the school. Come to YLS knowing that, so that you don't live your 1L year under the delusion that everything is peachy here.

(And I should add that the administration was especially hostile to the idea of letting admits know about this proposal, even though the Class of 2016 would presumably be the very first class to be affected by this decision.)

edamame
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby edamame » Wed May 01, 2013 3:23 pm

This is what was sent to us via email. Apparently, we're not affected.

Admissions (Asha Rangappa) wrote:A number of you have contacted our office concerning discussions about a possible grading reform at Yale Law School that would evaluate individualized instruction at the Law School on a Credit-Fail basis. The Law School's Grading Committee continues to deliberate about this reform and is at the moment soliciting student opinions. The Faculty plans to take up the issue on May 21.



I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 3:28 pm

edamame wrote:This is what was sent to us via email. Apparently, we're not affected.

Admissions (Asha Rangappa) wrote:A number of you have contacted our office concerning discussions about a possible grading reform at Yale Law School that would evaluate individualized instruction at the Law School on a Credit-Fail basis. The Law School's Grading Committee continues to deliberate about this reform and is at the moment soliciting student opinions. The Faculty plans to take up the issue on May 21.



I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place.

That's a new development, I think. But a good one. Some pressure worked?

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 3:37 pm

domino wrote:This was Dean Rangappa's response from the FB group:

Asha Rangappa Hi all. The committee that came up with this policy was comprised of faculty, including two of the clinical faculty (Mike Wishnie and Muneer Ahmad, whom many of you saw and spoke with), and students. The idea was to place the type of learning that occurs in one-on-one interactions into a separate, ungraded category (which really only emphasizes how much one-on-one learning there is here that they had to form a committee about it). The idea was to make the grading basis for these types of learning, which include the practical component of clinics, to ungraded credits (CR/F). This is complemented, however, by expanding the clinics to include a seminar component with the instructor, which is graded (H/P). A little over half of the 83 credits you need to graduate have to be graded, so students are worried that making the clinics ungraded it means that they can't do as much. But the committee looked at this issue carefully, and as Rebecca pointed out, it still allows you to take a clinic each semester starting in your 1L year. In fact, I believe that when they looked at the actual distribution of student clinic participation, they found that only three current students would have fallen short of the required graded credits under the new policy -- so they felt that it would not make a huge change in how students participate in clinics. There has been no change in how clinics are offered, when/how you can sign up, the substance of the clinics, etc.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Asha Rangappa I should note that the policy is also in the "review and comment" phase, where students can give feedback. So it has not actually been adopted.

There are a few things that are disingenuous about this. First, saying "a little over half" of your credits have to be graded is technically true, but very misleading. 16 of the 32 ungraded credits are taken by your completely ungraded first semester and another three by your now-ungraded SAW. Second, even if you ignore that, 32 out of 83 isn't really almost half. Then, yes there were students on the committee, but I'm almost positive they didn't get a vote, so it's not all that much good. And we have no idea yet what those two clinical faculty members on the committee think about it. It's entirely possible that they're opposed. And finally, the real issue isn't that you'll find too many people without enough credits to graduate, but that you disincentivize clinics (and working hard on your SAW) for no good reason.
Last edited by Elston Gunn on Wed May 01, 2013 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

naruhodo
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby naruhodo » Wed May 01, 2013 3:40 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:
edamame wrote:This is what was sent to us via email. Apparently, we're not affected.

Admissions (Asha Rangappa) wrote:A number of you have contacted our office concerning discussions about a possible grading reform at Yale Law School that would evaluate individualized instruction at the Law School on a Credit-Fail basis. The Law School's Grading Committee continues to deliberate about this reform and is at the moment soliciting student opinions. The Faculty plans to take up the issue on May 21.



I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place.

That's a new development, I think. But a good one. Some pressure worked?


The administration is genuinely concerned that this proposal, if applied to the incoming 1Ls, would have discourage admits from matriculating. So this is a move to essentially quell worries among the incoming Class of 2016 and push the burden onto the Class of 2017. They're still voting on it on May 21. I wouldn't fall for it. None of the students currently at YLS would be affected by the proposal, but most of us still care deeply about what might happen.
Last edited by naruhodo on Wed May 01, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tirakon
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby tirakon » Wed May 01, 2013 3:40 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:
edamame wrote:This is what was sent to us via email. Apparently, we're not affected.

Admissions (Asha Rangappa) wrote:A number of you have contacted our office concerning discussions about a possible grading reform at Yale Law School that would evaluate individualized instruction at the Law School on a Credit-Fail basis. The Law School's Grading Committee continues to deliberate about this reform and is at the moment soliciting student opinions. The Faculty plans to take up the issue on May 21.



I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place.

That's a new development, I think. But a good one. Some pressure worked?


A lot of concern was expressed on the Facebook group, and apparently through emails to faculty and administration.

My guess is they changed it because we have leverage--the deposit deadline hasn't pass yet.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 pm

naruhodo wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:
edamame wrote:This is what was sent to us via email. Apparently, we're not affected.

Admissions (Asha Rangappa) wrote:A number of you have contacted our office concerning discussions about a possible grading reform at Yale Law School that would evaluate individualized instruction at the Law School on a Credit-Fail basis. The Law School's Grading Committee continues to deliberate about this reform and is at the moment soliciting student opinions. The Faculty plans to take up the issue on May 21.



I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place.

That's a new development, I think. But a good one. Some pressure worked?


The administration is genuinely concerned that this proposal, if applied to the incoming 1Ls, would have discourage admits from matriculating. So this is a move to essentially quell worries among the incoming Class of 2016 and push the burden onto the Class of 2017. They're still voting on it on May 21. I wouldn't fall for it. None of the students currently at YLS would be affected by the proposal, but most of us still care deeply about what might happen.

Well, either way it's a good thing. It really was especially bad to spring this on people who had already decided to come based on the old set up.

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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby quasars » Wed May 01, 2013 6:59 pm

Incoming YLS admit. While the concerns about transparency and decision making are important (and certainly not unique to YLS), it doesn't seem to me that there will be a substantive experiential change for most students. Also, to echo hdivine, some of the suspected reasons may be reasonable (especially if any arrangement virtually always leads to an 'H').

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d330
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby d330 » Wed May 01, 2013 8:36 pm

I get it, folks are wondering how this will affect them. I received an email from Dean Asha that says, in part,

"I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place."

So it makes the point moot. Maybe this decision was made because of alarm, but fortunately for those who worry about whether they have made the choice, this should eases the mind. On another note, they have stated that this would have only affected 3 current students (had the policy already been affect) so I can't see the big deal.

I'll see all the people who accepted at YLS in the near future and am looking forward to it. Hope this calms your worries.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 8:59 pm

d330 wrote:I get it, folks are wondering how this will affect them. I received an email from Dean Asha that says, in part,

"I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place."

So it makes the point moot. Maybe this decision was made because of alarm, but fortunately for those who worry about whether they have made the choice, this should eases the mind. On another note, they have stated that this would have only affected 3 current students (had the policy already been affect) so I can't see the big deal.

I'll see all the people who accepted at YLS in the near future and am looking forward to it. Hope this calms your worries.

I'm highly dubious of the 3 person claim, but either way, the big deal is that Yale is absolutely amazing to attend right now, and they're trying to make it less amazing for no good reason.

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d330
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby d330 » Wed May 01, 2013 9:37 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:
d330 wrote:I get it, folks are wondering how this will affect them. I received an email from Dean Asha that says, in part,

"I am writing to make clear that no matter what happens at that meeting, any reforms will not affect anyone who was accepted to Yale Law School on or before September 1, 2013. Students falling into this group (which includes all of you) will be able to receive “regular” grades (Honors-Pass-Low Pass-Fail) for their individualized learning credits (including clinics), consistent with the policy that is currently in place."

So it makes the point moot. Maybe this decision was made because of alarm, but fortunately for those who worry about whether they have made the choice, this should eases the mind. On another note, they have stated that this would have only affected 3 current students (had the policy already been affect) so I can't see the big deal.

I'll see all the people who accepted at YLS in the near future and am looking forward to it. Hope this calms your worries.

I'm highly dubious of the 3 person claim, but either way, the big deal is that Yale is absolutely amazing to attend right now, and they're trying to make it less amazing for no good reason.


Dubious? Why would she lie? Less awesome? For who - we get in under the old policy. For the future admits, maybe. It all depends - and there may be a good reason, though we haven't considered it. Someone above suggested one. Whatever the case, I still say we should relax. Even if the rule changes it doesn't change for us - and if Yale is awesome, then it will definitely be amenable to the rule changing back if there is no good reason for the change.

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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby naruhodo » Wed May 01, 2013 9:56 pm

She has plenty of reason to lie. They may have decided, under student and admit pressure, to grandfather in the Class of 2016, but the administration has an incentive to minimize the perceived impact of these changes to mask any tensions in the law school that may be at play here. I think it's a good rule of thumb at YLS to take anything the administration tells you with a grain of salt; plenty of student orgs will tell you that they have had experiences with the law school making dubious or straight-up false assertions to them about school policy and what not.

And FWIW, the three-person statistic is definitely not true. It's unclear what research, if any, the committee actually did on the impact the proposed changes would have had on current students. At least four students in the Class of 2013 have identified themselves as people that would not have been able to graduate under the proposed regime. Our Student Reps, some of whom were privy to the committee deliberations, have asked 3Ls to submit data from their transcripts to ascertain exactly how many current students would have been affected by the change. This suggests the committee actually had minimal, if any, evidence as to how significant these changes would be.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 10:57 pm

d330 wrote:Dubious? Why would she lie?

The why is obvious--to make it seem like not a big deal. It's probably not a straight-up lie, but they're either doing some fancy math or didn't look very hard. I pointed out several ways above that the email is misleading in a way that the administration is certainly aware of, but admits wouldn't be able to pick up on. The other part of the email that wasn't posted here also contained very misleading language.

Less awesome? For who - we get in under the old policy.

Um, for future people who go to Yale?

For the future admits, maybe. It all depends - and there may be a good reason, though we haven't considered it. Someone above suggested one.

Again, what was this good reason? That the faculty (and apparently several admits) think students *should* be doing more black letter classes? Everyone knows that traditional legal education has huge flaws and has very little to do with being a lawyer--why do you think you or the administration should tell students what kind of education is "best?" Most of them have been lawyers for a couple of years at most. Shockingly, most of us do not want to be academics, and their idea of what law school should be is highly connected with what's appropriate for academic training, not practice.

The other obvious reason for the proposal is to combat grade inflation. First of all, there's really no evidence whatsoever that our grading system is a problem for anyone. It's clearly not stopping firms, non-profits or judges from hiring us. Nor is there any even anecdotal evidence I've heard that people who do a lot of clinics (and get a lot of Hs from them) outperform their less clinic-oriented peers with the kind of employers who care about grades (i.e. judges). In fact, I'd bet quite a lot that the opposite is true. So what's the good reason? Second, if you really care about grade inflation, don't combat it in a way that only affects a decently insular segment of the population.

Whatever the case, I still say we should relax. Even if the rule changes it doesn't change for us -

The only reason this is true is because we and many admits did make a big deal of it. The original proposal would have affected your class. None of this affects any of us directly, but we care about future Yale students having as great an experience as we've been able to. That you don't isn't really a good argument for others to not care about it.

and if Yale is awesome, then it will definitely be amenable to the rule changing back if there is no good reason for the change.

The status quo at Yale is awesome. The responsiveness of the administration is most definitely not. There's no reason to believe they'll just get it right over time.
Last edited by Elston Gunn on Wed May 01, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naruhodo
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby naruhodo » Wed May 01, 2013 11:06 pm

Update to this ridiculousness — just within the past 24 hours, students pulled together an informal survey urging the faculty to delay their vote on this proposal. Earlier this evening, about 40% of the student body had already signed the petition, and we heard from the faculty that this was proof that students don't care about this issue and that there's no reason to delay the vote. This is just a slap in the face to all students at YLS. In my three years at YLS, I have never seen such passion and energy roused across the entire student body, and the faculty has shown that they'd rather be willfully ignorant of this anger rather than consider student opinion. (And for the record, just over the past few hours, we've had 20% more of the student body sign the petition. Presumably a two-thirds majority of the school signals at least middling interest in the issue?)

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed May 01, 2013 11:59 pm

naruhodo wrote:Update to this ridiculousness — just within the past 24 hours, students pulled together an informal survey urging the faculty to delay their vote on this proposal. Earlier this evening, about 40% of the student body had already signed the petition, and we heard from the faculty that this was proof that students don't care about this issue and that there's no reason to delay the vote. This is just a slap in the face to all students at YLS. In my three years at YLS, I have never seen such passion and energy roused across the entire student body, and the faculty has shown that they'd rather be willfully ignorant of this anger rather than consider student opinion. (And for the record, just over the past few hours, we've had 20% more of the student body sign the petition. Presumably a two-thirds majority of the school signals at least middling interest in the issue?)

Almost 90% have signed now...Saying that absurd thing could not have possibly been a more effective way to get the petition signed.

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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby quasars » Thu May 02, 2013 12:11 am

ElstonGunn, have always been a big fan of your posts. And certainly admit that you know a ton more about YLS specific concerns and legal education than I do at the moment. That being said, your dismissal of "traditional legal education" is a tad cavalier here. When you say: "Everyone knows that traditional legal education has huge flaws and has very little to do with being a lawyer--why do you think you or the administration should tell students what kind of education is "best?" Firstly, no-one has explicitly made the argument in favor of "traditional legal education," that is at this point still an assumption. I'm also confused as to whether you are specifically calling out the typical bread-and-butter black-letter courses or basically ALL courses that aren't clinics. Meshing every non-clinic related course, simply on account of its comparative size and grading structure into the "traditional" category doesn't seem to do justice to some of the other unique opportunities and offerings available at YLS.

The point about the administration/"you" telling students what kind of education is "best" is a complicated one, as your passionate endorsement of the current model is also a sustained defense and philosophy of what is "best." The fact that it happens to be co-identical with the current arrangement doesn't make it any less of a philosophy/slant.

On grade inflation reform affecting a relatively "insular" group of students, it seems you are suggesting simultaneously that the proposed changes would affect many more than the administration is saying AND an unfairly small number? Also, why should it be assumed that a grade inflation correction should be applied uniformly if one of the very concerns is of a comparative nature between types of offerings? Anyway, these are just questions. I don't have answers, just observations.

I think a major factor here is that YLS seems to have a rich history of student-led input--that's how the system as we know it came to the fore in the first place--and it would be a shame if that were to change. Thus it's heartening to see the student body caring deeply about these curricular issues and wanting a place at the table to think it over and help influence policy. All of this is to say, I commend all of the current student posters for showing their commitment to what they believe makes YLS unique. And ultimately, as an incoming student, I don't want anything to change either. I just don't think fear-mongering future classes through the use of extreme language and positions (when there is room for debate and question) is a helpful dimension of the discussion.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby Elston Gunn » Thu May 02, 2013 8:53 am

quasars wrote:ElstonGunn, have always been a big fan of your posts. And certainly admit that you know a ton more about YLS specific concerns and legal education than I do at the moment. That being said, your dismissal of "traditional legal education" is a tad cavalier here. When you say: "Everyone knows that traditional legal education has huge flaws and has very little to do with being a lawyer--why do you think you or the administration should tell students what kind of education is "best?" Firstly, no-one has explicitly made the argument in favor of "traditional legal education," that is at this point still an assumption. I'm also confused as to whether you are specifically calling out the typical bread-and-butter black-letter courses or basically ALL courses that aren't clinics. Meshing every non-clinic related course, simply on account of its comparative size and grading structure into the "traditional" category doesn't seem to do justice to some of the other unique opportunities and offerings available at YLS.

The point about the administration/"you" telling students what kind of education is "best" is a complicated one, as your passionate endorsement of the current model is also a sustained defense and philosophy of what is "best." The fact that it happens to be co-identical with the current arrangement doesn't make it any less of a philosophy/slant.

It is a philosophy of what is best--that is shared by virtually the entire student body. And the philosophy is that the students are responsible enough to figure out what path is best for them as individuals. This proposal doesn't help a single student, and hurts a lot of them--IMO, of course, but I just don't see any good that would come out of it, and the faculty hasn't even tried to defend it cogently.

On grade inflation reform affecting a relatively "insular" group of students, it seems you are suggesting simultaneously that the proposed changes would affect many more than the administration is saying AND an unfairly small number? Also, why should it be assumed that a grade inflation correction should be applied uniformly if one of the very concerns is of a comparative nature between types of offerings? Anyway, these are just questions. I don't have answers, just observations.

It's maybe the wrong word. What I mean is that it's a distinct, identifiable group. It's a large number of people (maybe 20% or more of the student body who do a lot of clinical work), but it's a distinct group. The second question is reasonable, but no one has given any evidence at all that it's a real problem. In fact, it probably works perfectly now. Judges know that black letter classes are harder than clinics and thus respect the grades more highly, but the clinical students aren't hugely disadvantaged either. Under this policy, students who are really into clinics might end up with only 5 or 6 total grades when applying to clerkships.

I think a major factor here is that YLS seems to have a rich history of student-led input--that's how the system as we know it came to the fore in the first place--and it would be a shame if that were to change. Thus it's heartening to see the student body caring deeply about these curricular issues and wanting a place at the table to think it over and help influence policy. All of this is to say, I commend all of the current student posters for showing their commitment to what they believe makes YLS unique. And ultimately, as an incoming student, I don't want anything to change either. I just don't think fear-mongering future classes through the use of extreme language and positions (when there is room for debate and question) is a helpful dimension of the discussion.

I certainly don't mean to fear-monger, and I don't agree with how this topic was posted/handled with the admits. I think Yale is still the best. I've mostly just been debating the merits of the actual policy.

I think the thing you don't appreciate, and probably can't appreciate, is that virtually the entire student body agrees that the policy is bad. 90% of us have signed a petition to push off the vote. Sure, there are some people who don't really care, but not a single person has expressed even tentative support that I'm aware of. I'm sure there are a few (maybe it would too embarrassing to admit it at this point), but it's a remarkable level of unanimity displayed so far. The reason is that this proposal helps no one, and hurts many (even if only in a small way), and is the product of a tone-deaf administration that doesn't seem to care about what students want.

I don't mean to be too extreme. Clearly the harm is not going to be enormous. But it will make Yale a worse place to go to school for a decent portion of the population.

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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby currentYLSstudent » Thu May 02, 2013 3:00 pm

I'm a current student and like everyone have been pretty distressed by the whole situation and the way it has been handled. That being said, I wanted to add two things:

1) I have to say, in three years here, I have never been as impressed by the student body as I have this past week. The way people have been rallying around this issue despite the fact that everyone is busy with finals and the policy change won't actually affect current students has been really great.

2) I don't think the idea that "The Administration" as a whole is in cahoots on this is true in this case. It seems like no one except the people on the grading committee knew about the proposal until after the students found out and started protesting. In that vein, even though it seems that whatever (if any) research the grading committee did to get to the "three people affected" figure was totally inaccurate, I really don't think Asha meant to lie or mislead. She was just relaying the info they had given her. I also heard she was the one who convinced the grading committee to switch the policy to not apply to the Class of 2016.

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Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby ishciagb » Thu May 02, 2013 6:19 pm

currentYLSstudent wrote:I have to say, in three years here, I have never been as impressed by the student body as I have this past week. The way people have been rallying around this issue despite the fact that everyone is busy with finals and the policy change won't actually affect current students has been really great.


As a testament to this point, with which I wholly agree, the students won. No grade reform will be decided this spring. I'm incredibly impressed and proud that 80% of the student body rallied around an issue that will never personally affect them and that happened during the middle of finals. Viva YLS!

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby edamame » Thu May 02, 2013 6:25 pm

ishciagb wrote:
currentYLSstudent wrote:I have to say, in three years here, I have never been as impressed by the student body as I have this past week. The way people have been rallying around this issue despite the fact that everyone is busy with finals and the policy change won't actually affect current students has been really great.


As a testament to this point, with which I wholly agree, the students won. No grade reform will be decided this spring. I'm incredibly impressed and proud that 80% of the student body rallied around an issue that will never personally affect them and that happened during the middle of finals. Viva YLS!


Wait -- so the Committee is actually pushing its decision making process back? New development?

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby edamame » Thu May 02, 2013 6:28 pm

edamame wrote:
ishciagb wrote:
currentYLSstudent wrote:I have to say, in three years here, I have never been as impressed by the student body as I have this past week. The way people have been rallying around this issue despite the fact that everyone is busy with finals and the policy change won't actually affect current students has been really great.


As a testament to this point, with which I wholly agree, the students won. No grade reform will be decided this spring. I'm incredibly impressed and proud that 80% of the student body rallied around an issue that will never personally affect them and that happened during the middle of finals. Viva YLS!


Wait -- so the Committee is actually pushing its decision making process back? New development?


Whoops, just checked the YLS Facebook group. The Committee won't vote until fall. Hurray!

ishciagb
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:24 am

Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby ishciagb » Thu May 02, 2013 6:32 pm

edamame wrote:
ishciagb wrote:
currentYLSstudent wrote:I have to say, in three years here, I have never been as impressed by the student body as I have this past week. The way people have been rallying around this issue despite the fact that everyone is busy with finals and the policy change won't actually affect current students has been really great.


As a testament to this point, with which I wholly agree, the students won. No grade reform will be decided this spring. I'm incredibly impressed and proud that 80% of the student body rallied around an issue that will never personally affect them and that happened during the middle of finals. Viva YLS!


Wait -- so the Committee is actually pushing its decision making process back? New development?


Correct!

ylsClinicStudent14
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby ylsClinicStudent14 » Thu May 02, 2013 6:33 pm

Hey everyone. In an amazing display of student activism working, the grading committee has agreed to postpone any votes on this issue. After meeting with some of the students who were most engaged on this issue, the chair of the grading committee recommended that the vote be postponed. The committee unanimously agreed. I cannot possibly thank admitted students enough for their support in this battle.

The fight is not over, though. This proposal, which I believe devalues and limits opportunities for clinical education and experiential learning, may be voted on again in the fall. Can't wait to organize and work with you all in the fall, when it does.

edamame
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: YLS Admits: Curricular change that will affect YOU!!!!

Postby edamame » Thu May 02, 2013 6:49 pm

ylsClinicStudent14 wrote:Hey everyone. In an amazing display of student activism working, the grading committee has agreed to postpone any votes on this issue. After meeting with some of the students who were most engaged on this issue, the chair of the grading committee recommended that the vote be postponed. The committee unanimously agreed. I cannot possibly thank admitted students enough for their support in this battle.

The fight is not over, though. This proposal, which I believe devalues and limits opportunities for clinical education and experiential learning, may be voted on again in the fall. Can't wait to organize and work with you all in the fall, when it does.


+1. Ready for it. Just let me find housing in New Haven first. :-)




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