Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

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BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:06 am

titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


UCLA does not align with the OPs ties and where he would like to end up. It's not an option here.

OP, what was your offer at UT exactly? UT sounds perfect for you. I know the deposit deadline has passed but I would go back to them and ask for your seat back/more money. Couldn't hurt and they should start to get desperate for in state applicants with high numbers right about now...

alex.feuerman
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby alex.feuerman » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:16 am

UCLA ALL THE WAY DUDE COME ON. It's an amazing school with a good name, just...have the less debt possible.

edit: didn't see the Harvard thing. If you get in, go to Harvard at sticker.

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:19 am

alex.feuerman wrote:UCLA ALL THE WAY DUDE COME ON. It's an amazing school with a good name, just...have the less debt possible.

edit: didn't see the Harvard thing. If you get in, go to Harvard at sticker.


The OP wants big law and maybe a clerkship. Ties are to Texas, not Southern California. Do you want to see the OP fail?

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nickb285
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby nickb285 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:41 am

Normally I would agree with the low-debt UCLA option, but OP wants biglaw/clerkship->biglaw. The extra debt for Berkeley/Duke is worth it for the increased chances those schools have at his preferred options, especially given that said preferred options will allow him to pay off the extra debt.

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andres
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby andres » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:48 am

I think the best option for you is Berkeley

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:21 am

BigZuck wrote:
titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


UCLA does not align with the OPs ties and where he would like to end up. It's not an option here.

OP, what was your offer at UT exactly? UT sounds perfect for you. I know the deposit deadline has passed but I would go back to them and ask for your seat back/more money. Couldn't hurt and they should start to get desperate for in state applicants with high numbers right about now...


45K. Which is actually slightly less than half tuition but with the 3K need-based grant they give virtually everyone (though they cant guarantee the amount every year) it comes out to half. UT COA would come out to just over 100K. For what its worth, while I was at Berkeley, two Dallas biglaw firms where I know people were hosting a seminar about recruiting Berkeley grads. I didn't actually go so it could have been IP specific.

UCLA might not align with my ties, but do ties really trump anything else? like $40,000-$50,000?

A side note that I might mention, though it certainly is revealing far too much about myself, I did undergrad at BYU which I hear means the Mormon network (regardless of school affiliation) has become a 'tie.' The rough part is that I dont really self identify as Mormon anymore.... but I'll certainly take the benefits of my alma mater since I had to pay the price of living there for three years.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:28 am

titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


This is a valid question and I'd appreciate more comments on why it is not a good option?

I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there). If I do well at UCLA and get summer jobs, I will graduate VERY close to debt free and then hopefully still land lucrative employment. If I pay more for a better school, wont my employment look the same as it would if I was at the top of UCLA? In other words, I'd get the same job but have large debt?

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nickb285
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby nickb285 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:33 am

katch wrote:I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there).


You should already know this, but 100% of the class at UCLA feels like they will definitely be in the top third, and 2/3 of them are wrong.

Yes, you can potentially get a lucrative job from UCLA, but Berkeley/Duke will give you an advantage, and since your goal is biglaw/models and bottles, you need that advantage more than you need low debt. The answer would be different if you were interested in PI or small law.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:35 am

nickb285 wrote:
katch wrote:I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there).


You should already know this, but 100% of the class at UCLA feels like they will definitely be in the top third, and 2/3 of them are wrong.

Yes, you can potentially get a lucrative job from UCLA, but Berkeley/Duke will give you an advantage, and since your goal is biglaw/models and bottles, you need that advantage more than you need low debt. The answer would be different if you were interested in PI or small law.


but are numbers no reflection of potential within the class? They gave me a full ride so shouldnt that mean I'm positioned to do comparatively well? (I'll spare you the "I'm going to work harder than anybody ever!" spiel.)

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:38 am

katch wrote:
titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


This is a valid question and I'd appreciate more comments on why it is not a good option?

I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there). If I do well at UCLA and get summer jobs, I will graduate VERY close to debt free and then hopefully still land lucrative employment. If I pay more for a better school, wont my employment look the same as it would if I was at the top of UCLA? In other words, I'd get the same job but have large debt?


You don't have ties to CA and can't assume you will have top grades. Plus a good chunk of the class there doesn't get lawyer jobs period. Too risky to attend there without ties to CA IMO, I would hate to spend 60K and three years of my life and have nothing to show for it.

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Bronck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby Bronck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:40 am

katch wrote:but are numbers no reflection of potential within the class? They gave me a full ride so shouldnt that mean I'm positioned to do comparatively well? (I'll spare you the "I'm going to work harder than anybody ever!" spiel.)


No. You aren't a special snowflake. You have no idea how you will perform prior to entering law school.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:45 am

Bronck wrote:
katch wrote:but are numbers no reflection of potential within the class? They gave me a full ride so shouldnt that mean I'm positioned to do comparatively well? (I'll spare you the "I'm going to work harder than anybody ever!" spiel.)


No. You aren't a special snowflake. You have no idea how you will perform prior to entering law school.


But I thought everyone said LSAT scores were a strong indicator of class performance? ie. the LSAT range mirrors class rank?

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:47 am

BigZuck wrote:
katch wrote:
titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


This is a valid question and I'd appreciate more comments on why it is not a good option?

I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there). If I do well at UCLA and get summer jobs, I will graduate VERY close to debt free and then hopefully still land lucrative employment. If I pay more for a better school, wont my employment look the same as it would if I was at the top of UCLA? In other words, I'd get the same job but have large debt?


You don't have ties to CA and can't assume you will have top grades. Plus a good chunk of the class there doesn't get lawyer jobs period. Too risky to attend there without ties to CA IMO, I would hate to spend 60K and three years of my life and have nothing to show for it.


I'd say "nothing" was being unfair.... I'd hate to spend 100k at UT and be in an identical position. Doesn't UCLA employment slightly edge UT?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:47 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:48 am

katch wrote:
Bronck wrote:
katch wrote:but are numbers no reflection of potential within the class? They gave me a full ride so shouldnt that mean I'm positioned to do comparatively well? (I'll spare you the "I'm going to work harder than anybody ever!" spiel.)


No. You aren't a special snowflake. You have no idea how you will perform prior to entering law school.


But I thought everyone said LSAT scores were a strong indicator of class performance? ie. the LSAT range mirrors class rank?


What is your LSAT score? Given your scholarships I can't imagine it's a world beater compared to the median at UCLA. That's assuming that having a higher LSAT would assure you of a higher class rank, which I think is dubious at best.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:50 am

A note to all: I apologize if I sound argumentative, but I find playing devil's advocate to be the only way to get a full idea of reality. In all likelihood I will choose Berkeley, but I want to make sure I'm not being premature in ruling out UCLA. My parents certainly think I'm crazy to turn down free.

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:50 am

katch wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
katch wrote:
titan747 wrote:Why is nobody selecting UCLA. It seems to be a solid value at that price. Is Berkeley really a 80k better investment?


This is a valid question and I'd appreciate more comments on why it is not a good option?

I know everyone says law school performance is a crapshoot and you can't reliably have any reason to believe you will do well, but I'm doing it anyways. I feel like I would definitely be in the top third of my class at UCLA (feel free to convince me that I won't if I'm off the mark there). If I do well at UCLA and get summer jobs, I will graduate VERY close to debt free and then hopefully still land lucrative employment. If I pay more for a better school, wont my employment look the same as it would if I was at the top of UCLA? In other words, I'd get the same job but have large debt?


You don't have ties to CA and can't assume you will have top grades. Plus a good chunk of the class there doesn't get lawyer jobs period. Too risky to attend there without ties to CA IMO, I would hate to spend 60K and three years of my life and have nothing to show for it.


I'd say "nothing" was being unfair.... I'd hate to spend 100k at UT and be in an identical position. Doesn't UCLA employment slightly edge UT?


Both schools are peers, employment stats are virtually the same for all intents and purposes. I feel better about you getting a job from UT than from UCLA because of your ties to TX. However given that you are open to other places I don't think UT is worth only 40K less than Berkeley/Duke. I would go to one of those of these were my options. I would go to UT if you could bring down the COA 10-20K and of you wanted to work in TX above all else.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:51 am

ajax adonis wrote:Wait till HYS gets back to you, and tell the other schools to wait just a little and try to get an extension from them.


H and S waitlists go until the end of the first week of classes..... Also I dont think the S wait list sees almost any movement

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:53 am

BigZuck wrote:
katch wrote:
Bronck wrote:
katch wrote:but are numbers no reflection of potential within the class? They gave me a full ride so shouldnt that mean I'm positioned to do comparatively well? (I'll spare you the "I'm going to work harder than anybody ever!" spiel.)


No. You aren't a special snowflake. You have no idea how you will perform prior to entering law school.


But I thought everyone said LSAT scores were a strong indicator of class performance? ie. the LSAT range mirrors class rank?


What is your LSAT score? Given your scholarships I can't imagine it's a world beater compared to the median at UCLA. That's assuming that having a higher LSAT would assure you of a higher class rank, which I think is dubious at best.


170: over 75th percentile.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:54 am

katch wrote:170: over 75th percentile.


Why yes you getting the correct answer on two more logic game questions will undoubtedly prepare you for applying law to fact.

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:55 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:56 am

Ruxin1 wrote:
katch wrote:170: over 75th percentile.


Why yes you getting the correct answer on two more logic game questions will undoubtedly prepare you for applying law to fact.


lol Im just quoting what im told!! is it not true? Does the research not in fact show a strong relationship between LSAT and class rank?

Edit: Also, logic games is most certainly NOT where I would have gotten more right. I didnt even start the 4th game :)
Last edited by katch on Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katch
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby katch » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:58 am

BigZuck wrote:Both schools are peers, employment stats are virtually the same for all intents and purposes. I feel better about you getting a job from UT than from UCLA because of your ties to TX. However given that you are open to other places I don't think UT is worth only 40K less than Berkeley/Duke. I would go to one of those of these were my options. I would go to UT if you could bring down the COA 10-20K and of you wanted to work in TX above all else.


Thus given that I already confronted UT, even after the financial aid lady told me she thought their refusal to up the offer was strange, and that the deposit deadline has passed, UT is out.

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:59 am

katch wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
katch wrote:170: over 75th percentile.


Why yes you getting the correct answer on two more logic game questions will undoubtedly prepare you for applying law to fact.


lol Im just quoting what im told!! is it not true? Does the research not in fact show a strong relationship between LSAT and class rank?


Define "strong." Then reexamine the research findings and report back to us.

Common sense would dictate that Ruxin hit the nail on the head in patented pithy, sarcastic Ruxin fashion.

BigZuck
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Re: Final offers. Free at UCLA vs Duke, Berkeley, NYU

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:01 pm

katch wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Both schools are peers, employment stats are virtually the same for all intents and purposes. I feel better about you getting a job from UT than from UCLA because of your ties to TX. However given that you are open to other places I don't think UT is worth only 40K less than Berkeley/Duke. I would go to one of those of these were my options. I would go to UT if you could bring down the COA 10-20K and of you wanted to work in TX above all else.


Thus given that I already confronted UT, even after the financial aid lady told me she thought their refusal to up the offer was strange, and that the deposit deadline has passed, UT is out.


Maybe the fact that you "confronted" them is why they didn't want to listen to your request?

Anyway, of these, Duke or Berkeley whichever you prefer. Sounds like Berkeley so enjoy!




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