DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

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jiazhoujiazhou
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DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby jiazhoujiazhou » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:01 am

I've posted before and got great insights from TLSers. Now that I've narrowed down my choices and did some $ negotiation, I am still torn between Duke and Penn.

Scholarship: Duke (114k) v Penn (85k) - COL at Duke would be much lower, but I'll be getting a car at Duke but not Penn.

Want BigLaw in CA (no CA ties); warm weather contributes to my happiness (in which aspect Duke>Penn); BUT I prefer urban location (Penn>Duke)...

In terms of grading, Duke gives number GPA and Penn gives only letter no GPA. I don't know if that means anything, eg. would that make Duke more intense than Penn?

I havent negotiated with Duke yet, should I even try to ask for a raise in scholarship? I mean I've been advised that Penn is worth 30-40k more than Duke, but is it worth 50k more? (yes I realize this is a stupid question but it is a sincere one...)

THANK YOU!

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JamMasterJ
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:06 am

Penn is better - at the cost difference, it's pretty much a toss-up. Neither will get you CA without ties of any sort - but since P is better for NYC big law and you can likely lateral to CA after a couple years, I'd probably go Penn.

framboozer
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby framboozer » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:11 am

As it stands now, Penn, but if you haven't tried negotiating with Duke you really should. Their pockets run deep and they're very responsive.

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RSterling
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby RSterling » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:16 am

The perceived prestige gap between Penn and the T7-13 schools is overblow, imo. Yes, Penn places more folks in biglaw, but I think this is more for NYC and not really anywhere else. Median at Penn will be similar to being median at Duke. Also, if you're interested in clerking, Duke has been kicking ass (relative to its ranking) the past few years in that arena.

Duke almost certainly won't raise its scholarship since it's already considerably higher than Penn's, and they won't see themselves as being worth 50k less than Penn. I'd take the money and enjoy the weather in Durham. Some ties will help you in CA, but neither school has an edge for CA. Since the COL at Duke is lower you're looking at a difference of 50k+ after interest. I'd go with Duke.

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sinfiery
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:31 am

Is it really NYC biglaw that Penn outperforms other schools or is it Pennsylvania biglaw that causes it? I'd imagine the latter.


I think at these costs you should just pick the school you prefer to attend for 3 years.

Lumieres
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby Lumieres » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:34 am

Duke, at a cheaper rate.

jiazhoujiazhou
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby jiazhoujiazhou » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:35 am

RSterling wrote:
Duke almost certainly won't raise its scholarship since it's already considerably higher than Penn's, and they won't see themselves as being worth 50k less than Penn. I'd take the money and enjoy the weather in Durham. Some ties will help you in CA, but neither school has an edge for CA. Since the COL at Duke is lower you're looking at a difference of 50k+ after interest. I'd go with Duke.


umm... I was thinking using UCLA to negotiate. I know UCLA is not considered Duke's peer, but it gives me a free ride and Duke knows all along that CA is where I want to be. Would that be a strategy at all?

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dawyzest1
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby dawyzest1 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:46 am

jiazhoujiazhou wrote:
umm... I was thinking using UCLA to negotiate. I know UCLA is not considered Duke's peer, but it gives me a free ride and Duke knows all along that CA is where I want to be. Would that be a strategy at all?


NO. I don't think your UCLA scholarship is going to move them. They have already come a long way in giving you the cash to come and I think they believe they are ~$50k better than UCLA.

I'd go with Duke here, but I think you are doing just as well if you choose Penn. In terms of intensity of environment, Duke is exceptionally laid back. They are small, cooperative, and collegial.

El Principe
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby El Principe » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:20 pm

Personally, I'd go to Duke, but I'm looking to go back to a different market, so in your case, I'd recommend going to UPENN because I think their BigLaw rate in NYC is a little higher and transferring from there to Cali would probably be easier than going straight to CA without ties.

Big Dog
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby Big Dog » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:31 pm

transferring from there to Cali would probably be easier than going straight to CA without ties.


Not sure I agree. Without ties, both will be tough. However, Duke has a few more going west each year, so at least the anecdotes lean that way. Penn folks just have less interest in the left coast.

fallingup
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby fallingup » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:35 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:
jiazhoujiazhou wrote:
umm... I was thinking using UCLA to negotiate. I know UCLA is not considered Duke's peer, but it gives me a free ride and Duke knows all along that CA is where I want to be. Would that be a strategy at all?


NO. I don't think your UCLA scholarship is going to move them.


It's worth a try to negotiate with Duke.

Big Dog
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby Big Dog » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:50 pm

^^Exactly. Duke has made it clear that they don't want to lose high quality candidates just on account of money.

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Nelson
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:32 pm

Neither of these schools is going to get you to CA without ties from median.

CourCour
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby CourCour » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:02 pm

You should get UCLA to give you $$ for COL and go there scott free

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IAFG
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby IAFG » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:09 pm

Nelson wrote:Neither of these schools is going to get you to CA without ties from median.

And probably not above median either.

So, go to Penn, land a NY firm with a CA office, transfer offices.

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jvincent11
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby jvincent11 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:22 pm

IAFG wrote:
Nelson wrote:Neither of these schools is going to get you to CA without ties from median.

And probably not above median either.

So, go to Penn, land a NY firm with a CA office, transfer offices.


From what I've gathered from multiple people in the industry, Duke and Penn provide a basically equal chance of NYC biglaw

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IAFG
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Re: DUKE v PENN still torn at last minute

Postby IAFG » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:24 pm

jvincent11 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Nelson wrote:Neither of these schools is going to get you to CA without ties from median.

And probably not above median either.

So, go to Penn, land a NY firm with a CA office, transfer offices.


From what I've gathered from multiple people in the industry, Duke and Penn provide a basically equal chance of NYC biglaw

I don't know anyone at Duke. That might be right.




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