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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:31 pm
by LSATSCORES2012
70% vs 50% in biglaw + federal clerkships is pretty concrete and substantial to me. In other words, if you're right, and you'll be in the top of your class and get a good outcome and either one, there is no difference. But if you're wrong, and you end up below median, you have a much better shot at what is typically considered to be a desirable outcome at Chicago. The costs of going to Chicago over Michigan are small, but the potential gains are large. All the same, I hope you enjoy Ann Arbor.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:44 pm
by IAFG
LSATSCORES2012 wrote:70% vs 50% in biglaw + federal clerkships is pretty concrete and substantial to me. In other words, if you're right, and you'll be in the top of your class and get a good outcome and either one, there is no difference. But if you're wrong, and you end up below median, you have a much better shot at what is typically considered to be a desirable outcome at Chicago. The costs of going to Chicago over Michigan are small, but the potential gains are large. All the same, I hope you enjoy Ann Arbor.

You seem confused. OP's made it pretty clear

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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:52 pm
by Ti Malice
pinballwiz24 wrote:Just to clarify, that statement was about Michigan, more specifically about why I am confused as to how Chicago is a no-brain better school if both schools get great jobs but Chicago could be tougher to succeed compared to the rest of the class.


I know the thread took a detour from your main question, but it's important that you understand that your law school classmates will all be much more tightly clustered in ability and motivation than your undergrad class. Almost everyone you go to school with will be used to being the best, or very close to it, in all of their academic pursuits. Almost all of them will have very strong work ethics; effort will not separate you from them. Not one of your classmates will know what it's like to be bottom quintile in anything academic, but twenty percent of them will eventually find out.

Anyway, as to your original question, Chicago is easily worth the extra $50K. As others have said, our best proxy for good outcomes is (% of class in large firms + % in federal clerkships). (Other categories like government and PI are far too inclusive to be susceptible to useful analysis, but law school prestige matters as much or more for desirable jobs in these areas as for BigLaw, so you can probably safely assume that comparative performance won't be far out of proportion to results under our more well-defined measurement.) Chicago placed a little over 70% of its 2012 class in large firms / federal clerkships, while Michigan managed a little over 50%. That's a massive difference, and it easily dwarfs any possible competitive advantage you would have by attending Michigan.

On that point, the law school admissions process is extremely sensitive to small changes in numbers, so people on this site are as well, but such small variations don't reflect any significant difference in academic ability between students / student bodies.

Edit: Looks like I'm late to the show here. OP, it looks like you had already made up your mind before posting. The arguments in favor of Chicago are pretty persuasive. But there are certainly worse choices than Michigan for free, so enjoy!

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:58 pm
by pinballwiz24
Haha, well I'm glad I could open up a space for someone. And I think I value quality of life more than the average person. Beyond overall health and well-being I believe that a more welcoming environment will also help me do better academically. Looking solely at numbers, Chicago obviously is a better choice. Money played almost no role in my decision. If it was the sole consideration, I probably would have chosen Chicago. But alas, I am a sucker for the things that cannot be counted. Call me foolish but at least I'm happy with my decision :-)

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:03 pm
by Mal Reynolds
Why even start the thread then?

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:16 pm
by Aberzombie1892
Chicago hands down. If you go to Michigan and strike out, you have no one to blame but yourself. Chicago's grading system alone is worth $50k more than Michigans's grading system, especially if you see yourself applying to secondary markets that don't attract a log it T14 students.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:24 pm
by skers
Mal Reynolds wrote:Why even start the thread then?


You of all people...

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:26 pm
by Mal Reynolds
TemporarySaint wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Why even start the thread then?


You of all people...


Did I start a thread? :lol:

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:26 pm
by The Brainalist
Mal Reynolds wrote:Why even start the thread then?


I saw it as performance art.

For example, one piece of performance art a friend of mine saw was a tranny, wearing nothing but really high stilettos, defecating into a clear tube which emptied into a martini glass.

Here, OP makes virtually the same point, but without the heels.

*applauds*

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:30 pm
by Nelson
LOL at the idea of there being an appreciable difference in the kind of student at T14 law schools. They're all law students bro.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:34 pm
by The Brainalist
Nelson wrote:LOL at the idea of there being an appreciable difference in the kind of student at T14 law schools. They're all law students bro.



Wrong. Michigan is leading the way in having students like OP, who chose Michigan for some reason.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:35 pm
by pinballwiz24
Alright Alright guys. Sorry for posting! Jeez. I wanted to hear if anyone had any points about choosing Chicago over Michigan that I hadn't considered yet. I didn't hear any, so I went with Michigan. Sorry to waste any of your time, although if I really am like that transvestite pooping into a martini glass, I'm glad I could be of entertainment to you! I hope that I don't regret my law school decision as much as I regret starting this thread...

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:36 pm
by NoodleyOne
The Brainalist wrote:
Nelson wrote:LOL at the idea of there being an appreciable difference in the kind of student at T14 law schools. They're all law students bro.



Wrong. Michigan is leading the way in having students like OP, who chose Michigan for some reason.

Well... I guess it's better than GULC.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:10 am
by thelawyler
pinballwiz24 wrote:Alright Alright guys. Sorry for posting! Jeez. I wanted to hear if anyone had any points about choosing Chicago over Michigan that I hadn't considered yet. I didn't hear any, so I went with Michigan. Sorry to waste any of your time, although if I really am like that transvestite pooping into a martini glass, I'm glad I could be of entertainment to you! I hope that I don't regret my law school decision as much as I regret starting this thread...


It's an over-reaction. Enjoy AA.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:15 am
by dr123
How'd you calculate 10k debt? That seems like a random number. Is that including COL.

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:11 am
by somewhatwayward
So is that 60K total (ie full ride to UChi and you just pay living expenses) to UChi or 60K per year? Similarly with Mich. ..10K a yr or total? If it is 180K for UChi and 30K for Mich it is not as clear cut IMO. I am fairly skeptical about Mich (def don't think it belongs in the T10...it is propped up by judges who remember its heyday as a top 3) but even if you got no legal job you could manage 30K debt on a 40K admin salary.

If it is 10K total debt for Mich and 60K total for UChi go to UChi and congrats on the gigantic scholarship there... although if you got a full ride from UChi did you get into HYS?

Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 pm
by IAFG
somewhatwayward wrote:So is that 60K total (ie full ride to UChi and you just pay living expenses) to UChi or 60K per year? Similarly with Mich. ..10K a yr or total? If it is 180K for UChi and 30K for Mich it is not as clear cut IMO. I am fairly skeptical about Mich (def don't think it belongs in the T10...it is propped up by judges who remember its heyday as a top 3) but even if you got no legal job you could manage 30K debt on a 40K admin salary.

If it is 10K total debt for Mich and 60K total for UChi go to UChi and congrats on the gigantic scholarship there... although if you got a full ride from UChi did you get into HYS?

OP says in the OP that he's kicking in money.

Your explanation for mich being top 10 is every kind of wrong.