Michigan or Chicago???

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Michigan (10k debt) or Chicago (60k debt)?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:36 pm

Michigan
15
25%
Chicago
45
75%
 
Total votes: 60

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pinballwiz24
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Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:36 pm

Okay, so I don't post here often, but as my decision making process is entering the final stage, I thought I would pose a question to the forum I am constantly checking.

Background: I am not sure where I want to work after law school (other than the fact I see myself working in a city), and I can see myself going either the public interest or big firm route (decisive, I know). Ideally I would like to clerk after law school. From visiting the schools, I think I would be fairly happy at either, though definitely a little moreso at Michigan, doing their summer start program.

Also, with scholarships and my money factored in, Chicago would put me 60k in debt while Michigan would put me about 10k in debt. Not sure how strongly I should consider this. I am wondering if you all think Chicago offers more opportunities than Michigan to the extent where a little more debt and less fun is worth it. Thoughts? Thanks!

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Nelson
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby Nelson » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:39 pm

Chicago fo sho.

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untar614
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby untar614 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:41 pm

Nelson wrote:Chicago fo sho.

This.


Why would it be less fun? Chicago is a cool city. Iknow the immediate area of Hyde Park isn't great, but head uptown and you should be able to enjoy yourself.

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North
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby North » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:43 pm

Do these prices include cost of living (food, rent, etc.)?

Even if they don't, Chi is probably TCR.

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pinballwiz24
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:48 pm

Prices include everything, and for people who think Chicago, what specifically is the distinct advantage over Michigan? I know that a smaller percentage of students don't get jobs, but I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.

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Nelson
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby Nelson » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:49 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote: I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.

You should be.

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Bronck
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby Bronck » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:50 pm

Nelson wrote:
pinballwiz24 wrote: I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.

You should be.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:53 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:Prices include everything, and for people who think Chicago, what specifically is the distinct advantage over Michigan? I know that a smaller percentage of students don't get jobs, but I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.

More people get good jobs from Chicago. Michigan has been underperforming lately, while Chicago is going strong. I say the difference between the two is easily worth 50k.

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North
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby North » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:55 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.

Lol. $60k for Chi is a good price, and the quality of opportunities available at Chi relative to M is worth the $50k difference IMO.

Did you strike out on HYS?

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The Brainalist
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby The Brainalist » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:13 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote: I am wondering if you all think Chicago offers more opportunities than Michigan to the extent where a little more debt and less fun is worth it. Thoughts? Thanks!


If you are concerned with fun, I happen to know of a really great Chuck E. Cheese in Chicago.

PM me if you are interested.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:15 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
pinballwiz24 wrote: I am wondering if you all think Chicago offers more opportunities than Michigan to the extent where a little more debt and less fun is worth it. Thoughts? Thanks!


If you are concerned with fun, I happen to know of a really great Chuck E. Cheese in Chicago.

PM me if you are interested.

Don't keep vital knowledge like that limited to PM.

Ti Malice
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:49 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:I know that a smaller percentage of students don't get jobs, but I'm not really worried about finishing in the bottom part of my class.


So where do you expect to finish? And based on what?

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pinballwiz24
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:04 pm

I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.

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North
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby North » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:06 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.

How many people who put in no effort, have no determination, and have a history of failing do you think end up at UChi every year? Do you even know what rigor is?

The Brainalist wrote:If you are concerned with fun, I happen to know of a really great Chuck E. Cheese in Chicago.

PM me if you are interested.

I lol'd.

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pinballwiz24
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Does that mean you think the average person would do better comparatively at Michigan than at Chicago?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:09 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.


What about the other kids in your class who are used to this exact same thing?

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skers
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby skers » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:12 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.


The fact that you're making these statements about Chicago tell me you don't know enough about the school.

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pinballwiz24
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:17 pm

Just to clarify, that statement was about Michigan, more specifically about why I am confused as to how Chicago is a no-brain better school if both schools get great jobs but Chicago could be tougher to succeed compared to the rest of the class.

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thelawyler
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby thelawyler » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:17 pm

To be fair to OP, he shouldn't assume he WOULD be bottom of the class either. If that was the case, nobody would go to law school. But everybody is correct that he should account for the 50% he'll end up below median.

In regards to the quality of students being better at Chicago: probably marginally, but the 2 questions that they got on average higher on the LSAT statistically has an insignificant value in predicting your performance. Not worth accounting for. One way to look at it (albeit inaccurately) is to think that if the student quality difference gives you a 5% boost by going to Michigan... well considering there is about a 15-20% employment outcome difference between the two schools, you'd be better off going to Chicago.

That said, Michigan for free is fantastic, too. So congrats on getting 1% problems.
Last edited by thelawyler on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby IAFG » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:25 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
pinballwiz24 wrote:I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.


The fact that you're making these statements about Chicago any law school tells me you don't know enough about the law school.

fixt

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skers
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby skers » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:32 pm

IAFG wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:
pinballwiz24 wrote:I guess I shouldn't assume that I won't finish toward the bottom of my class. I assumed effort/determination/history of not failing would be able to let me avoid the bottom 20% but maybe I'm wrong.


The fact that you're making these statements about Chicago any law school tells me you don't know enough about the law school.

fixt


Fair. I was just making a comment about how strivery Chicago is. I have a good friend who downed brews during a final at a t14 school. If that happened at Chicago, everyone would have an aneurysm.

But yeah, the general point stands. OP, there are very few people in law school who aren't trying and they're at a t14 for a reason. That said, always keep in mind it's not like having shitty employment outcomes is something just relegated to the bottom 20%. I'd take Chicago in your shoes, but Michigan for free is a pretty fantastic option.

20141023
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby 20141023 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:02 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pinballwiz24
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby pinballwiz24 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:13 pm

Alright. Thanks to everyone for the comments! I was already leaning Michigan, and spent all of today looking for reasons why I should go for Chicago. I was looking for concrete reasons to pick Chicago here and nothing has convinced me it would be a better option for me than Michigan. Off to Ann Arbor!!! I think that I will be better able to succeed in the environment there and do not see a huge advantage job-wise by picking Chicago. Thanks everyone for the input.

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untar614
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby untar614 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:19 pm

pinballwiz24 wrote:Alright. Thanks to everyone for the comments! I was already leaning Michigan, and spent all of today looking for reasons why I should go for Chicago. I was looking for concrete reasons to pick Chicago here and nothing has convinced me it would be a better option for me than Michigan. Off to Ann Arbor!!! I think that I will be better able to succeed in the environment there and do not see a huge advantage job-wise by picking Chicago. Thanks everyone for the input.

really? oh, ok.

I'll chalk it up as a win for me personally I guess as that's one more Chicago seat opening up for me to get in to.

Have fun in AA. Still not a bad option.

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The Brainalist
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Re: Michigan or Chicago???

Postby The Brainalist » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:24 pm

Well, I think most people disagree with you on the difference on employment outcomes (and did express that here). To me it seems pretty obvious, but to the extent that you aren't swayed by things like NLJ250, clerkship numbers, or LST, there probably isn't anyone here who can simply argue you into changing your mind. You either think those differences are worth it or you don't. Ultimately, if OCI works out for you, you'll feel like you made the right choice. If it doesn't, then you'll at least have $50,000 as some consolation, for what that's worth.




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