Plan to work in NYC!!

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Plan to work in NYC!!

Georgetown (COA 195000)
16
23%
Fordham (97000)
42
61%
Vandy (118000)
6
9%
UCLA (114000)
3
4%
Cardozo (40320)
2
3%
 
Total votes: 69

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby WokeUpInACar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:07 am

Rlabo wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:I admire the persistence of the posters who keep trying to save people like this from making retarded, impatient decisions. It is a never ending battle.


Ouch, I didn't post up cooley, depaul and hofstra. These are legitimate options IMO. Could they be better? Of course, but thats true of anything south of HYS. I actually would like to attend law school and while agree that one most think long and hard about the investment of time and money I also think that putting off a year and rolling the dice again on the LSAT as well as on whatever new application materials I would have to come up may put me in a worse situation not better. JUST 5 point can also be JUST 5 points in the wrong direction.

These aren't objectively bad options. They are bad options FOR YOU. I just cannot believe anyone who has only taken the LSAT once has maxed out their score. Literally 2-3 more questions correct could double your biglaw chances. Plus you're 20 fucking years old man, get some life and/or work experience before you commit yourself to a career for the rest of your life. YOU attending law school this fall is an objectively poor choice.

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dr123
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby dr123 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:08 am

Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:You are what, 21? Why in the world are you in such a hurry to go to law school?


This isnt gonna win m any brownie points, but I'm actually 20 (21 in November)

So your answer to my question would be?


In short, I value time above almost all else.


take some time to enjoy your early twenties then bro. You aint gonna get these years back. Get a job and work for a couple years, it'll be good life experience.

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thelawyler
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby thelawyler » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:10 am

Okay you're a dumbass but if your parents are going to help pay for a lot of it and you strongly prefer big law, take Georgetown.

But not retaking with a 169 is a fucking terrible idea. It's 5 hours of your time, and if you hit your margin of error +2 randomly, you get a world difference of opportunity. This decision not to retake because "you don't want to" ALONE is evidence of your lack of maturity that firms MIGHT see through after 3 hours of interviews and not hire you. Shows VERY poor judgment, but meh. Your life man.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:11 am

Nelson wrote:Hey, if you're only 20, your 25 years of IBR payments for your GULC debt will be gone before you're 50! Totally go to law school even though you won't be old enough to socialize during your first semester.


This just seems like age stigmatism to me which means absolutely nothing. At least post some constructive criticism that doesn't require the answer of some1 saying they have a fake ID.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:16 am

thelawyler wrote:Okay you're a dumbass but if your parents are going to help pay for a lot of it and you strongly prefer big law, take Georgetown.

But not retaking with a 169 is a fucking terrible idea. It's 5 hours of your time, and if you hit your margin of error +2 randomly, you get a world difference of opportunity. This decision not to retake because "you don't want to" ALONE is evidence of your lack of maturity that firms MIGHT see through after 3 hours of interviews and not hire you. Shows VERY poor judgment, but meh. Your life man.


You guys are all assuming that since I got a 169 I could do better than that. I appreciate all the confidence you guys have in me to score higher than 99% of people who take the test, but I just don't see it happening knowing how I did studying.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 am

dr123 wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:You are what, 21? Why in the world are you in such a hurry to go to law school?


This isnt gonna win m any brownie points, but I'm actually 20 (21 in November)

So your answer to my question would be?


In short, I value time above almost all else.


take some time to enjoy your early twenties then bro. You aint gonna get these years back. Get a job and work for a couple years, it'll be good life experience.[/quote]

I'm more of a work now play later than play now work later kind of guy, at least in a macro sense.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby WokeUpInACar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 am

Rlabo wrote:
thelawyler wrote:Okay you're a dumbass but if your parents are going to help pay for a lot of it and you strongly prefer big law, take Georgetown.

But not retaking with a 169 is a fucking terrible idea. It's 5 hours of your time, and if you hit your margin of error +2 randomly, you get a world difference of opportunity. This decision not to retake because "you don't want to" ALONE is evidence of your lack of maturity that firms MIGHT see through after 3 hours of interviews and not hire you. Shows VERY poor judgment, but meh. Your life man.


You guys are all assuming that since I got a 169 I could do better than that. I appreciate all the confidence you guys have in me to score higher than 99% of people who take the test, but I just don't see it happening knowing how I did studying.

Dude the improvement you need is in the fucking margin of error. There is literally no chance that you are INCAPABLE of scoring 170+ after scoring 169.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:19 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
thelawyler wrote:Okay you're a dumbass but if your parents are going to help pay for a lot of it and you strongly prefer big law, take Georgetown.

But not retaking with a 169 is a fucking terrible idea. It's 5 hours of your time, and if you hit your margin of error +2 randomly, you get a world difference of opportunity. This decision not to retake because "you don't want to" ALONE is evidence of your lack of maturity that firms MIGHT see through after 3 hours of interviews and not hire you. Shows VERY poor judgment, but meh. Your life man.


You guys are all assuming that since I got a 169 I could do better than that. I appreciate all the confidence you guys have in me to score higher than 99% of people who take the test, but I just don't see it happening knowing how I did studying.

Dude the improvement you need is in the fucking margin of error. There is literally no chance that you are INCAPABLE of scoring 170+ after scoring 169.


Not so much as incapable, but based on my practice test scores, I'm much more likely to score a 165 than I am to score 169 again or higher.

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Nelson
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Nelson » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 am

Rlabo wrote:
Nelson wrote:Hey, if you're only 20, your 25 years of IBR payments for your GULC debt will be gone before you're 50! Totally go to law school even though you won't be old enough to socialize during your first semester.


This just seems like age stigmatism to me which means absolutely nothing. At least post some constructive criticism that doesn't require the answer of some1 saying they have a fake ID.

Using fake identification probably isn't a good habit for someone who fancies themself a future officer of the court.

But seriously? Age stigmatism?

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby WokeUpInACar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:21 am

You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:23 am

Nelson wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
Nelson wrote:Hey, if you're only 20, your 25 years of IBR payments for your GULC debt will be gone before you're 50! Totally go to law school even though you won't be old enough to socialize during your first semester.


This just seems like age stigmatism to me which means absolutely nothing. At least post some constructive criticism that doesn't require the answer of some1 saying they have a fake ID.

Using fake identification probably isn't a good habit for someone who fancies themself a future officer of the court.

But seriously? Age stigmatism?


Well yea, with the exception of going out to a bar, why would me being 20 have a negative effect on my socializing? I'm sorry I'm not 24 but that doesn't mean I can't get along/befriend someone who is, especially in law school where every1s pretty much doing the same thing.

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thelawyler
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby thelawyler » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:23 am

Let's just say that it'll be much harder to get top third at any of your options in law school than going form a 169 to a 171. FAR HARDER.

And what does that mean? No Big Law for you? You okay with that? In 2015 after you strike out, will you be saying "damn, I should have retaken!"? Possibly.

So there's that. Do the math.

Just take the June LSAT and decide, if anything.
Last edited by thelawyler on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:24 am

Wokeup is spot on. Waiting a year and improving 2-4 points will: (1) get you into much better schools where biglaw is almost a lock (NYU) instead of a Russian Roulette proposition and (2) save you a boatload of money at your current options.

If you go to school next year you're either looking at a 1 in 8 chance at biglaw w/minimal debt (Cardozo); 1 in 3 chance with significant debt (Fordham); or 2 in 5 chance at biglaw with ASTRONOMICAL debt (GULC). At your very best options it's still more than likely that you'll be committing financial suicide.

Just show some maturity, retake and kill your app cycle in the fall.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:26 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby WokeUpInACar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:28 am

Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:35 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.


Going to Fordham will probably cost me 60K (contingent on whether I decide to get an apartment or not for 1L) which means I'd most likely graduate without any debt. Knowing that I will be in NYC upon graduation, yes that seems like a very rational option to me. Again, would NYU be a better option? No doubt. But its not BLS either.

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bowser
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby bowser » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:38 am

Are your parents rich or something so it doesn't matter? Then I guess you can do whatever you want.

Scoring 5 points lower won't hurt you. Scoring 1 point higher will probably mean a couple T-14 acceptances and something like 50-60K. Scoring 2-3 points higher makes you competitive for NYU/Columbia.

Did you literally never break 165 after taking like 20 practice exams? Was the 169 on test day some kind of ridiculous miracle you could never hope to see again? I'm not a statistician, but for something like a 50% better chance at your goal (Biglaw) and $60,000, even if you have a very tiny chance of improvement (like 10% or even less) a retake is worth it.

I was a 170/3.88 who didn't retake because I am attending Columbia for free. Very few people could argue I was making a huge mistake. But who knows, maybe I could've gotten into Yale with a 172, and I wouldn't have to be sweating my upcoming OCI like I am right now. In the objective scheme of things I probably should've retaken.
Last edited by bowser on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby shifty_eyed » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:38 am

Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.


Going to Fordham will probably cost me 60K (contingent on whether I decide to get an apartment or not for 1L) which means I'd most likely graduate without any debt. Knowing that I will be in NYC upon graduation, yes that seems like a very rational option to me. Again, would NYU be a better option? No doubt. But its not BLS either.


I can't with you.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby WokeUpInACar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:39 am

Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.


Going to Fordham will probably cost me 60K (contingent on whether I decide to get an apartment or not for 1L) which means I'd most likely graduate without any debt. Knowing that I will be in NYC upon graduation, yes that seems like a very rational option to me. Again, would NYU be a better option? No doubt. But its not BLS either.

Just because this is a far better option than most people on TLS have doesn't mean it is the optimal choice. No one is saying you're going to be destitute or debtpwned, but you have absolutely not maxed out your potential on the LSAT, it's just not possible. There would be SO MANY positive effects of taking at least one year off, even without considering the very likely scenario that you improve on the LSAT and have vastly better options as a result.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:44 am

bowser wrote:Are your parents rich or something so it doesn't matter? Then I guess you can do whatever you want.

Scoring 5 points lower won't hurt you. Scoring 1 point higher will probably mean a couple T-14 acceptances and something like 50-60K. Scoring 2-3 points higher makes you competitive for NYU/Columbia.

Did you literally never break 165 after taking like 20 practice exams? Was the 169 on test day some kind of ridiculous miracle you could never hope to see again? I'm not a statistician, but for something like a 50% better chance at your goal (Biglaw) and $60,000, even if you have a very tiny chance of improvement (like 10% or even less) a retake is worth it.

I was a 170/3.88 who didn't retake because I am attending Columbia for free. Very few people could argue I was making a huge mistake. But who knows, maybe I could've gotten into Yale with a 172, and I wouldn't have to be sweating my upcoming OCI like I am right now. In the objective scheme of things I probably should've retaken.


Took about 35-40 practest range of a 141-172 highly concentrated around the 163-66 range and when I took the test I was averaging a 167 but towards the end of my studying my score started to get much more volatile in the wrong direction. Yes, I had a good test day.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:46 am

shifty_eyed wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:You are just trying to talk yourself out of retaking because it will make your life uncomfortable and deviate from THE PLAN that I'm sure you've had for yourself for quite some time. Asserting that there is just NO WAY you can improve your score is patently absurd.


Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.


Going to Fordham will probably cost me 60K (contingent on whether I decide to get an apartment or not for 1L) which means I'd most likely graduate without any debt. Knowing that I will be in NYC upon graduation, yes that seems like a very rational option to me. Again, would NYU be a better option? No doubt. But its not BLS either.


I can't with you.[/quote]

Well that is encouraging, thanks for the comment.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby shifty_eyed » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:50 am

Even if you do worse on a retake, so what? Outside of Y (maybe S), schools don't care. You would be gaining valuable life experience, even if you just work a dumb job.

I took time off after college to work and retake, and even though I got the exact same score the first time and only increased by 2 points (and with my GPA the 2 points probably did nothing)... I am SO GLAD I did. I feel like I have matured and learned a LOT about myself, even though I never had a high profile job or anything, and I even lived at home. Instead of being worn out from 16 years of formal education, I am EXCITED to be back in school and extremely motivated now that I've learned what my career options are with my bachelor's and skill set.

And you might even decide you don't want to be a lawyer after all.

Pope Francis
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Pope Francis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:54 am

OP. I think you have to recognize that once you finish your first year of law school, you won't really have any second chances. If you bring up your LSAT through a certain amount of studying, you will more likely get a job after your first year, because you'll be at a better school. You can increase your chances of getting a job by retaking the LSAT, but not by retaking 1L. That's what really sucks, and that's why the LSAT is so important. It's your only opportunity to retake for higher chance at biglaw. Seriously, you will not have the chance to increase your odds again.

That said, those in the legal profession, and on these forums, are extremely risk adverse. You might be willing to take a greater risk so that you can graduate a year earlier. Doesn't sound like law student think, but maybe your risk taking will be useful down the road. You aren't an idiot, just remember you can't retake 1L.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:56 am

WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:Not to say I haven't done my research, but that PLAN you think I've had doesnt really exist the way you assume it does. Kinda fell into a legal position and loved it and decided to take my LSAT shortly after. THE PLAN was certainly not always to go to law school,

Ok sure. But you've told friends and family this is what you're doing, you won't have to enter the scary real world for three more years, and you got your mind set on the idea of law school at some point. And now you're grasping for any possible rationalization that will allow you to continue on that path.


Going to Fordham will probably cost me 60K (contingent on whether I decide to get an apartment or not for 1L) which means I'd most likely graduate without any debt. Knowing that I will be in NYC upon graduation, yes that seems like a very rational option to me. Again, would NYU be a better option? No doubt. But its not BLS either.

Just because this is a far better option than most people on TLS have doesn't mean it is the optimal choice. No one is saying you're going to be destitute or debtpwned, but you have absolutely not maxed out your potential on the LSAT, it's just not possible. There would be SO MANY positive effects of taking at least one year off, even without considering the very likely scenario that you improve on the LSAT and have vastly better options as a result.


I'm just curious to know whether or not you think if I even get one more point higher on the LSAT it would be the difference of me being out vs in with money, cuz I'm currently WL at 6 top schools that for some I can probably push to pay sticker at, so unless money is the difference, no I don't think a 1 point increase tips the entire scale. Other than t14 with money, objectively given my goals, the next best option is Fordham.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby shifty_eyed » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:58 am

Pope Francis wrote:OP. I think you have to recognize that once you finish your first year of law school, you won't really have any second chances. If you bring up your LSAT through a certain amount of studying, you will more likely get a job after your first year, because you'll be at a better school. You can increase your chances of getting a job by retaking the LSAT, but not by retaking 1L. That's what really sucks, and that's why the LSAT is so important. It's your only opportunity to retake for higher chance at biglaw. Seriously, you will not have the chance to increase your odds again.

That said, those in the legal profession, and on these forums, are extremely risk adverse. You might be willing to take a greater risk so that you can graduate a year earlier. Doesn't sound like law student think, but maybe your risk taking will be useful down the road. You aren't an idiot, just remember you can't retake 1L.


If this person was 32, I could understand feeling an urgency. But the poster is 20. I don't see what benefit starting law school that young could give you, and I only see potential harm.




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