Plan to work in NYC!!

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Plan to work in NYC!!

Georgetown (COA 195000)
16
23%
Fordham (97000)
42
61%
Vandy (118000)
6
9%
UCLA (114000)
3
4%
Cardozo (40320)
2
3%
 
Total votes: 69

vinnnyvincenzo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby vinnnyvincenzo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:12 am

What everyone else said is right. You applied late, are 20 fuckin years old, and have no real work experience. Take a year, work @ your alleged $60k/yr job, party and buy cool shit you want and retake. Having disposable income is fucking awesome. Or at least deposit somewhere, bust your ass, retake in June and if you improve re-apply, if you dont improve go. No lose scenario. (longer study would be ideal but you don't seem to want to commit to a year off without a guarantee that it will pay dividends).

On a separate note, you asked why as a 20 yr old you wont be able to socialize with the older people in your class. Well I'm 24-25 and I can tell you I would not want to hang out with some 20 year old who cant even legally get shitfaced with me. Most people look down at those who are younger than them by a couple years, let alone 5. You started 8th grade when I started college, that would constantly be on my mind and would make me less likely to chill with you. But maybe I'm just a cynical prick with a seniority complex though.

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ph5354a
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby ph5354a » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:20 am

vinnnyvincenzo wrote:Well I'm 24-25 and I can tell you I would not want to hang out with some 20 year old who cant even legally get shitfaced with me. Most people look down at those who are younger than them by a couple years, let alone 5. You started 8th grade when I started college, that would constantly be on my mind and would make me less likely to chill with you. But maybe I'm just a cynical prick with a seniority complex though.


I don't consider myself a cynical prick, and I would agree with this. I'm only two years out of UG, and even now, socializing with people who have never had a full-time, salaried job outside of UG is difficult. Maybe in law school I'll feel differently because we'll all be students, but you just have a completely different perspective on things once you have a little work experience. On a different note, I can't imagine going to LS and not being able to legally drink.

OP, also, (y)our GPA is fine, but it's not stellar. Some solid work experience will help convince adcomms that even though you weren't an A student in UG, your reading and analytic skills are up to snuff. Going K-JD with your GPA makes them wonder how/if your performance will be different in law school.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby shifty_eyed » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:16 pm

Rlabo wrote:This is just overly bleak, even for TLS. I could make 60K out of college if I chose to do that so while tripping over 90K is definitely not what im saying, "almost certain" 45K is just a refusal to live in any form of reality and theres a very wide pay gap between 45-90. I'm more likely to fail out of law school than grab a position of 45K, ESPECIALLY after passing the Bar. Unless you just truly have absolutely 0 faith in your abilities to network and meet with people.


QFP

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:21 pm

Special snowflakes never change, man.

Shitty job prospects? You just gotta NETWORK man!

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CaptainLeela
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby CaptainLeela » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:26 pm

This is pretty much relates to nothing, but as I was reading through this whole "Why does being twenty matter?" shtick it made me think of our last legal intern.

Our attorneys somehow found out he was 20 and thus referred to him as "fetus" the entire summer (I was 25, and previously the youngest employee, on rare occasion teased as the "baby" so what was younger than baby?)

Fetus did not get a lot of respect and was not asked back for this summer.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:45 pm

You "value time above all else"? WTF does that even mean?? Unless you're facing a guaranteed premature death, and my apologies for being insensitive if you are, you have no good reason to "value time" over something that will make a big, big difference to the success or failure of your long-term career. Add in the fact that you're a fetus and that will work against you, and this is pure irrationality. Actually, it's brain chemistry at work. It's because you're 20. You still have a teenager's brain, and it is causing you to use impatience as a substitute for actual thought. Go now if you must, but at least don't kid yourself as to why. You have no good reason.

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thelawyler
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby thelawyler » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:09 pm

On a similar note: OP if you had retaken, etc but this was your best score, then nobody would be giving you nearly as much shit. The fact that you refuse to try, and then justify it by saying "it won't matter," along with other terrible reasons, is why you are getting so much shit.

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Lavitz
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Lavitz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:15 pm

Didn't read the whole thread, just the first and last pages. Since OP still refuses to retake, I'll approach from a different angle.

OP, you don't even need to retake. Just work this summer and reapply in September and I'm sure you'll have better options. As others have pointed out, you'll also have an easier time both socializing with fellow students and convincing employers that you're ready for biglaw.

Also, I'd recommend reading this thread if you haven't already: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=126460


Otherwise, I'm going with Fordham to minimize risk.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:06 pm

Lol kid you'll be my age when you graduate law school. I think coming out K-JD to law school is usually a mistake unless you have ridiculous LSAT-- going straight after 3 years of college is actually just retarded. You are setting yourself up for miserable failure and disappointment, and whats worse, your implicating your parents in your terrible decision making by wasting their money on a degree its unlikely you will be able to use.

Fordham's biglaw placement relies on having grads with strong nyc ties and WE. Its a local school for local professionals. Not only will you not fit in, you will not receive the support to achieve gainful employment, and the network may fail you.

OP can always socialize and network with undergrads if he goes to Georgetown, which is a relatively insular community. So i guess thats my vote since cardozo and fordham will do nothing for him.

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ph5354a
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby ph5354a » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:11 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
OP can always socialize and network with undergrads if he goes to Georgetown, which is a relatively insular community. So i guess thats my vote since cardozo and fordham will do nothing for him.


Solid advice, just jumping in to say that GULC's campus is actually a good 5 miles away from Georgetown, both the neighborhood and campus, so there's very little if any interaction between undergrads and law students. I would venture to say that GULC is pretty close to the way that you described Fordham, a school for local professionals with existing connections. But, it's hard for me to make a reasonable argument for any of these options :D

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:53 pm

Here is the tricky part. You have to weigh the pros vs. cons of a possible plan to forego school, re-take the LSAT and hope for better results next year. There are a lot of unknowns, for example:



- Will I score better on the LSAT?

- Will the schools which have offered me scholarships be as generous next year?


I don’t think a single year of work experience is likely to enhance my legal career or my application (unless I'm are working in the White House or doing covert operations in Afghanistan).




I think I have some great options on the table now, which I cannot guarantee are going to be there in the future. G’Town has a great name, but they are only giving me $10K per year. Not sure if the extra money I will have to spend (or go in debt for) is worth the name and slightly better prospects.

A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:54 pm

thelawyler wrote:On a similar note: OP if you had retaken, etc but this was your best score, then nobody would be giving you nearly as much shit. The fact that you refuse to try, and then justify it by saying "it won't matter," along with other terrible reasons, is why you are getting so much shit.


I studied for 7 months not 3, the point was to get as good and as far as I could and take it once.

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bananasplit19
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby bananasplit19 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:57 pm

Rlabo wrote:I don’t think a single year of work experience is likely to enhance my legal career or my application (unless I'm are working in the White House or doing covert operations in Afghanistan).

You'd be surprised. Northwestern is offering some people deferred $50k/yr schollies, provided the applicant go work for a year first. Could be at a legal job, could be at Jamba Juice, doesn't matter. So at least one T14 school believes that for some, one dinky year of work experience is worth $150K of scholarship money to them!

And I really want to reiterate what others have touched upon: disposable income is awesome. Damn, life as a poor law student next year is going to blow.

NycReturn
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby NycReturn » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:59 pm

.
Last edited by NycReturn on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ph5354a
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby ph5354a » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:59 pm

The issues you raised above have already been addressed by a lot of posters in this thread. It's your life and you are under no obligation to listen to strangers on the internet, but if you didn't want to hear opinions and weren't going to acknowledge the objective facts being stated here, you should not have made a decision thread.

I hate to be this harsh, but you have no birds.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby shifty_eyed » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:01 pm

NycReturn wrote:
thelawyler wrote:If I were you and didn't want to "work" for a year?

Take another year of college instead of graduating early, take super easy classes and get 4.0-4.3 GPA for an entire year, possibly pull that GPA up to a 3.7+, up the LSAT 2 points with a lot of extra studying, and then enjoy a T14 for nearly a full ride.


To prevent the spreading of false information: taking additional classes will have no impact on your LSAC GPA. The LSAC website states that courses excluded from the conversion of your LSAC GPA include "[t]hose awarded after the first undergraduate degree was received." (Granted this does require me to make the assumption that OP is receiving a degree this spring, but from reading this thread, it seems to be a safe assumption)

Edit: From "graduating this spring" to "receiving a degree"

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CaptainLeela
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby CaptainLeela » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:01 pm

I applied in 2010-2011 w/ 3.65, 169, 1 year WE experience, WL: Duke, GULC, NU, Columbia; Rejected: NYU, penn

This Cycle: applied w/ 3.65, 169 (lawl, my life), 3 years legal WE: WL: Penn, Northwestern, Columbia; In: GULC, Duke (w/ $$), Michigan, Cornell

Do with this information what you will

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Tekrul
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Tekrul » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:17 pm

You're too smart for your own good, dude. You're using your intellect to find more ways to refuse tried and true advice. However, I will sympathize that you think you've reached your LSAT ceiling. If you really and truly believe you put in all you had during those 7 months, then I'll come back to this thread, read your first post only and give you my take on the choice between schools.

But let me say something edgewise. I was a D1 athlete in UG, and my time commitment was sunk between pre-med courses, the rigor of taking the credit maximum every semester (and sometimes even over the credit maximum through petition and express approval of the dean), athletic commitment, and my relationship. Did I really and truly put ALL I had in me into these things? No, and as a result, they all suffered.

Note, I will NEVER have the chance to compete D1 again. I cannot raise my GPA. And I did not get to have a 'senior' year with my friends, many of whom are moving overseas, across the nation, etc. and I may never see again.

You are not in this position. You have the ability to retake the LSAT and go absolutely as hard as you can for another half year. Or you can start working in a field, use that WE to tilt law schools in your favor, and also use that time taking auxiliary Symbolic Logic and Epistemology courses which, as opposed to direct LSAT study, will be building for you a preliminary foundation for destroying the LSAT without even trying. If you were to take one of these school options right now, thereby putting you in my position of no return, would you look back and say, "yea, I tried my hardest"? Or would you walk around every single day with guilt and regret?

You are at a point where you can start changing things and affecting your future in a positive way. Taking a school option right now will remove that from you and put you on a more restricted spectrum of outcomes mostly bounded by the employment statistics of the school you are going to and the debt you will incur.

As a final note, I will commend that you are not a head in the clouds guy, thinking that by re-taking the LSAT ALL things will become open to you, as they surely will not. But on the flip-side, I believe you've wandered too far on the side of realism into pessimism without properly accounting for how WE can make that LSAT less important and how studying Symbolic Logic/Epistemology in addition to LSAT studies can qualitatively and substantively improve your intellectual preparedness for the test.

Edit:

If I had applied right away when I graduated in 2012, no WE, nothing impressive about my GPA, I can nearly guarantee I wouldn't be looking at the options I'm looking at now. But I took that 2012-2013 year to go out and try things. Mind you, I really wanted to go to law school but I knew it wasn't the time. I started 1 failed food vendor business. I learned a lot from that failure. I co-founded another business and it is now a widely recognized platform in the fencing community even overseas. Now I'm involved in the development of an app that I really believe in. I used my time to give back to the community, working in underserved public schools. Trust me, no matter where you live, you will find at least 1 of these and they WILL need you. And putting that on your resume can only do good.
Last edited by Tekrul on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:25 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:
Rlabo wrote:I don’t think a single year of work experience is likely to enhance my legal career or my application (unless I'm are working in the White House or doing covert operations in Afghanistan).

You'd be surprised. Northwestern is offering some people deferred $50k/yr schollies, provided the applicant go work for a year first. Could be at a legal job, could be at Jamba Juice, doesn't matter. So at least one T14 school believes that for some, one dinky year of work experience is worth $150K of scholarship money to them!

And I really want to reiterate what others have touched upon: disposable income is awesome. Damn, life as a poor law student next year is going to blow.


When I was 21, I turned down this NW scholarship offer for half-tuition at a T10. I figured that one extra year of "lawyer salary" (foolishly assuming I would get biglaw) would more than make up for the year working a crappy job and the scholly money. But there were other emotional, irrational considerations too that youth had a lot to do with.

Long story short, I did not get biglaw out of a school with a rep for sending everyone into biglaw. Grades played a part in this, but so too did my lack of work experience, because my grades were median and well within range of many firms. To go into it more fully would take a long-ass post, but we'll just say that after a certain point in the class, the firms look for things other than just GPA, and convincing somebody to pay you a salary, full-time, to do a job and not to fire you is a much more powerful signal than an extra .1 on six classes the first year of law school.

I didn't end up in a terrible spot, but what my lifestyle could look like right now if I only had 40K debt instead of the six-figures I have now (for one I wouldn't be paying 50% of my income to the government) is tough to think about, and having to hustle for a job for two years was pretty demoralizing.

Though I didn't have a tough time socializing with many of my classmates (who are now good friends), we're at slightly different stages in our lives. They'll be getting engaged, married, having kids a few years earlier than I will be, which is something else to think about.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:27 pm

Rlabo wrote:
Tekrul wrote:I know you said you won't retake and I just wasted like 2 calories typing this out, but!

I would have went for world domination if I had your GPA. World. Domination.


I'm a K-JD graduating in 3 years. My options are good enough IMO (yes, I Know they could be better) where I do not feel the need to put off law school for a year.

your opinion is wrong

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:41 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
Tekrul wrote:I know you said you won't retake and I just wasted like 2 calories typing this out, but!

I would have went for world domination if I had your GPA. World. Domination.


I'm a K-JD graduating in 3 years. My options are good enough IMO (yes, I Know they could be better) where I do not feel the need to put off law school for a year.

your opinion is wrong

Seriously. I think back to when I was twenty and I thought I knew shit. I didn't. I'm glad I didn't make a six figure financial commitment then.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:30 pm

ph5354a wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
OP can always socialize and network with undergrads if he goes to Georgetown, which is a relatively insular community. So i guess thats my vote since cardozo and fordham will do nothing for him.


Solid advice, just jumping in to say that GULC's campus is actually a good 5 miles away from Georgetown, both the neighborhood and campus, so there's very little if any interaction between undergrads and law students. I would venture to say that GULC is pretty close to the way that you described Fordham, a school for local professionals with existing connections. But, it's hard for me to make a reasonable argument for any of these options :D


Hmm my bad. I visited Georgetown twice when I was considering attending as an undergrad and one more time for a conference, and I thought the campus was rather isolated from other parts of DC. I have not been to the law school; maybe it wouldn't have that benefit then. I would say UCLA then for a younger scene, but OP could not return to NYC after. I think the local characterization of Georgetown may be particularly true for part timers, but there are some full time students who attend with the intention of forming new connections in the industry and in government (I'm not saying these are successful connections, but it is done). I don't know -- I'm not trying to advocate for any of these options over applying in another cycle.

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Rlabo
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby Rlabo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:25 pm

ph5354a wrote:The issues you raised above have already been addressed by a lot of posters in this thread. It's your life and you are under no obligation to listen to strangers on the internet, but if you didn't want to hear opinions and weren't going to acknowledge the objective facts being stated here, you should not have made a decision thread.

I hate to be this harsh, but you have no birds.


I clearly stated that retake would not be any options i was considering so actually you are completely wrong as know one who replied to this cared to follow the initial instructions laid out. It's fine as I knew I would receive many people saying retake, but I did not anticipate it being THE ENTIRE THREAD, which is not why I made the thread in the first place, but rather to play with options I have not ones I don't.

No birds is a close minded thing to say. You want to say I could have better birds with my numbers or a retake fine, but Fordham vandy and ucla all at steep discounts, Cardozo at a full ride, and georgetown are all birds.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Don't ask people for help and then get mad at them for not following instructions


HTH

rad lulz
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Re: Plan to work in NYC!!

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:31 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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