Columbia vs. Berkeley Forum

[Dr. Dre]

And, despite your arguments to the contrary, it's been the top-ranked undergraduate school in the country per US News

NO it has not.


AND being ranked highly is some crap rankings do not equate to prestige. Don't EQUIVOCATE.

[moneybagsphd]

I've been to berkeley's campus.

Smells like urine, bums all over the place, and no diversity (all asian).

NO, berkeley is not prestigious

you are making a total ass of yourself. proceed.

[Real Madrid]

And, despite your arguments to the contrary, it's been the top-ranked undergraduate school in the country per US News

NO it has not.


AND being ranked highly is some crap rankings do not equate to prestige. Don't EQUIVOCATE.

Top-ranked public undergrad in the country*

And yes it has.

Also, prestige as seen by the Times Higher Education Rankings, US News, or whatever other publication >>>>> prestige defined by "Dr. Dre." Your little anti-California spiel, while mildly amusing at first, has now reached retarded levels. I'd tell you to shut up, but watching you make a fool of yourself is pretty hilarious.

[Dr. Dre]

FORBES doesn't see berkeley in the T4 nor in the top 40...In US NEWS they can't break top 20. The only reason berkeley is ranked so high is b/c of its research. Which spills over its undeserved programs.

and I don't normally hate on cal, but your sense of perception for it is PURE hyperbole. If what you believe is incorrect and no one has confronted you on your BS, i will.

[dixiecupdrinking]

This thread is a complete circle-derp.

[izha]

This thread is a complete circle-derp.

Exactly as any other thread where esteemed Dr. Dre is posting in. Correlation or causation?

[Big Dog]

I agree, Berkeley's reputation rests on CERTAIN graduate programs.

Small nit, but "certain" is nearly all, as in Cal has as many top-ranked grad programs as Harvard. (Count 'em.)

And yes, undergrads at the UCs are in for a wild ride. But then again, Harvard is not known for its undergrad teaching either.

[Dr. Dre]

Harvard is not known for its undergrad teaching either.

but its UG reputation is VERY prestigious


whereas what is found in ANY UC is not

[The Brainalist]

Being from California, I tend to agree with Dre. Everyone knows it is a hard school to get into, but so are UCLA, UCSD, and USC. For UG, these are pretty interchangeable. At the end of the day, its pretty much another UC, and people would choose UCSD just as often as Berkeley just based on location. And for UG, the outcomes would be pretty much identical. Its not like you network with rich kids or people from elite private highschools and make these connections at Berkeley that you wouldn't at UCSD. It isn't at all like going to an Ivy League school for undergrad, or a private liberal arts college like Colgate. You don't even make the connections you'd make at USC or the Claremont-McKenna colleges. It is a giant public school, with a lot of CA public high school grads and a ton of junior college transfers. But, for its accessibility at that level, I can't really put it in the same class as private schools.

Honestly, if I want to network with Berkeley grads from the liberal arts college, I just have to go to the Ross or the local Target and ask for help from a sales clerk. That just isn't anywhere near as likely for an Ivy League grad, at least in my perception. I mean, If someone had a choice between Berkeley UG and Cornell UG, I would think the person was crazy to even think of Berkeley at the same price.

That being said, it is still a nice name to have on the resume. Great branding. Great school, just never going to compare to an Ivy League or a top private.

The graduate population isn't really enough to change general perception in California, because that is a much smaller group. However, most of the things that differentiate the school from top private schools as a whole matter less for the grad schools, which are so small and selective that you'd finally end up in classes with the same people who went to Colgate or Brown for UG.

[Dr. Dre]

Honestly, if I want to network with Berkeley grads from the liberal arts college, I just have to go to the Ross or the local Target and ask for help from a sales clerk.

BEST POAST EVER

[bizzybone1313]

Honestly, if I want to network with Berkeley grads from the liberal arts college, I just have to go to the Ross or the local Target and ask for help from a sales clerk.

BEST POAST EVER

I have always wondered what happens to the bottom of the barrel Ivy undergrad graduates. How much their school names carry them.

[Dr. Dre]

I have always wondered what happens to the bottom of the barrel Ivy undergrad graduates. How much their school names carry them.

probably not far . . . but then again, there is a high probability that they come from wealthy backgrounds, so even if they got shit grades, their connections will help em' out.

[jbagelboy]

Being from California, I tend to agree with Dre. Everyone knows it is a hard school to get into, but so are UCLA, UCSD, and USC. For UG, these are pretty interchangeable. At the end of the day, its pretty much another UC, and people would choose UCSD just as often as Berkeley just based on location. And for UG, the outcomes would be pretty much identical. Its not like you network with rich kids or people from elite private highschools and make these connections at Berkeley that you wouldn't at UCSD. It isn't at all like going to an Ivy League school for undergrad, or a private liberal arts college like Colgate. You don't even make the connections you'd make at USC or the Claremont-McKenna colleges. It is a giant public school, with a lot of CA public high school grads and a ton of junior college transfers. But, for its accessibility at that level, I can't really put it in the same class as private schools.

Honestly, if I want to network with Berkeley grads from the liberal arts college, I just have to go to the Ross or the local Target and ask for help from a sales clerk. That just isn't anywhere near as likely for an Ivy League grad, at least in my perception. I mean, If someone had a choice between Berkeley UG and Cornell UG, I would think the person was crazy to even think of Berkeley at the same price.

That being said, it is still a nice name to have on the resume. Great branding. Great school, just never going to compare to an Ivy League or a top private.

The graduate population isn't really enough to change general perception in California, because that is a much smaller group. However, most of the things that differentiate the school from top private schools as a whole matter less for the grad schools, which are so small and selective that you'd finally end up in classes with the same people who went to Colgate or Brown for UG.

Lol all my friends from HS took Berkeley or UCLA over Cornell. The one guy in my year who went to Cornell had been rejected st Cal.

I agree with you about private connections being much better from the claremont colleges with Pomona and then CMC a step ahead (claremont mckenna or cmc is just one of 5, they arent all the claremont mckenna colleges fyi...)

Colgate isnt very prestigious and probably doesnt get a lot of andover/exeter kids. Strange example for you to pick over williams/pomona/swarthmore ect.

[Dr. Dre]

Colgate may not be THAT prestigious, but it sure as hell gets kids from affluent parents IN DROVES

[Big Dog]

there is a high probability that they come from wealthy backgrounds

Source, please?

[Golden Bear 11]

FACTS about Berkeley:

#6 in highest academic reputation (undergraduate) —U.S. News and World Report (February 2013)

#3 in undergraduate Business and Engineering in the nation—U.S. News and World Report (September 2012)

[Dr. Dre]

FACTS about Berkeley:

#6 in highest academic reputation (undergraduate) —U.S. News and World Report (February 2013)

LOL no one cares about this fact BECAUSE it is PURELY subjective

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... -officials

[The Brainalist]

Lol all my friends from HS took Berkeley or UCLA over Cornell. The one guy in my year who went to Cornell had been rejected st Cal.

I agree with you about private connections being much better from the claremont colleges with Pomona and then CMC a step ahead (claremont mckenna or cmc is just one of 5, they arent all the claremont mckenna colleges fyi...)

Colgate isnt very prestigious and probably doesnt get a lot of andover/exeter kids. Strange example for you to pick over williams/pomona/swarthmore ect.

In-state tuition is another thing, which is why they are a really good option, even against top private schools. I effectively made the same choice your friends did, but I'm assuming we were all in-state. I'm not from a rich family. Its not like it would have been a good choice for me to go to a private school given the financial aspects. I really appreciate the California college system, including the junior colleges. What they offer, in terms of opportunity, is nothing less than amazing, and I'm grateful for it. However, the grad schools are essentially charging private school prices. The thing is, once they stop representing access and opportunity, they stop being public in my mind, and so a lot of the goodwill goes out the window.

I'm mostly using Colgate to distinguish between private schools and public schools. I don't really know much about Colgate at all. Even if the public school is ranked higher, there are certain things associated with the small private school will have that the public one doesn't - and a lot of it has to do with things I'm not really a fan of, basically the same things I'd associate with an exclusive country-club for the wealthy. Ultimately, though, these things can have practical effects on career trajectory through things like networking. On the one hand, I resent it. But, on the other hand, I wish I had it (at least more of it, as I also went to one of the big CA publics for UG, but not law school).

That isn't to say I think Colgate is better school than Berkeley. However, I see OP's desire to choose a private school over a public school where the academic reputations are roughly equal, especially already having experienced the top public, as reasonable. Though I think the benefits are diminished at the graduate level, since everyone at Berkeley's Law School is pretty high-up in the food chain, going to law school at another school will also allow you to be affiliated with that school's larger institution. It is, of course, a much lesser concern than the quality of the specific graduate program, but in a field where connections and signalling matters a lot, I'm not sure that the idea of being affiliated with an elite undergraduate is something that can be entirely dismissed.

[dawyzest1]

Honestly, if I want to network with Berkeley grads from the liberal arts college, I just have to go to the Ross or the local Target and ask for help from a sales clerk.

BEST POAST EVER

I have always wondered what happens to the bottom of the barrel Ivy undergrad graduates. How much their school names carry them.

I can personally attest that the Ivy name doesn't get you very far if you're otherwise a dumb dumb. I know PLENTY of people who I graduated with who had poor grades and ended up at far inferior grad programs relative to the UG's prestige or in just sort of dead end work. Maybe I just associated with the underclass of my school but I'm the only person in our group who's grad work was in roughly the same tier as our undergrad.

One of the first things I learned after college was that no one you work with gives a sh*t where you went to college.

[jbagelboy]

One of the first things I learned after college was that no one you work with gives a sh*t where you went to college.

+1

helps you get in the door at many jobs but after that its the quality of your work product that counts.

people still occasionally say 'oh wow' or give an impressed/bemused face at dinner parties or the supermarket but other then that it has little impact

[Dr. Dre]

One of the first things I learned after college was that no one you work with gives a sh*t where you went to college.

+1

helps you get in the door at many jobs but after that its the quality of your work product that counts.

people still occasionally say 'oh wow' or give an impressed/bemused face at dinner parties or the supermarket but other then that it has little impact

that little impact is a HUGE impact compared to the "impact" uc berkeley's name carries

[Real Madrid]

FACTS about Berkeley:

#6 in highest academic reputation (undergraduate) —U.S. News and World Report (February 2013)

LOL no one cares about this fact BECAUSE it is PURELY subjective

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... -officials

Prestige is by its very definition "subjective," dolt. Which is why your posting in this thread is so hilariously ironic. On the one hand, you're arguing (without any factual support) that people in California and on the East Coast in general don't recognize Berkeley as being prestigious while presenting your own uninformed views on school prestige, and on the other hand, you balk at the idea of accepting "prestige rankings" as created by respected publications, claiming they're all "subjective."

[dawyzest1]

Prestige is by its very definition "subjective,"

+1, so, if Dre thinks Berkeley is middling or worse that's his business and by definition he can't be wrong. But, there's no doubt that the crowd has great respect for Berkeley and I include myself in that.

I know every time I've met a Berkeley grad, I've taken notice.

[joiedevivre18]

+1 to all of this. Berkeley is arguably just as prestigious a university as Columbia worldwide. It has more top ranked programs than Columbia University. Even if your strictly talking about lay prestige, Berkeley is more well known as a research institution and more highly regarded in many parts of the world

Even in Europe, specifically in the UK, the Berkeley brand name carries more weight than the Columbia name, both in the academia and business community.

I know OPs stated interest is in Asia, so this is beside the point, but I would say "meh" to the question of European perspective. CLS definitely has a more europe-centric international program than Berkeley with many more opportunities in that theater. Attorneys I spoke to at a huge IP firm in Hamburg and my friends family at capgemeni in Paris said go to columbia if you cant go to stanford or harvard and want to work in continental europe. Moot point anyway

I agree with jbagelboy. I've lived and worked in Europe (London, Paris, Zurich) for the past 4 years and Columbia has far more recognition than Berkeley does...

[Redamon1]

+1 to all of this. Berkeley is arguably just as prestigious a university as Columbia worldwide. It has more top ranked programs than Columbia University. Even if your strictly talking about lay prestige, Berkeley is more well known as a research institution and more highly regarded in many parts of the world

Even in Europe, specifically in the UK, the Berkeley brand name carries more weight than the Columbia name, both in the academia and business community.

I know OPs stated interest is in Asia, so this is beside the point, but I would say "meh" to the question of European perspective. CLS definitely has a more europe-centric international program than Berkeley with many more opportunities in that theater. Attorneys I spoke to at a huge IP firm in Hamburg and my friends family at capgemeni in Paris said go to columbia if you cant go to stanford or harvard and want to work in continental europe. Moot point anyway

I agree with jbagelboy. I've lived and worked in Europe (London, Paris, Zurich) for the past 4 years and Columbia has far more recognition than Berkeley does...

I'm actually from Europe, and I disagree. I think it's the other way around. That goes to show different people have different views. The point IMO is that the difference in prestige in Europe, if any, is minor and doesn't cut clearly either way.