Columbia vs. Berkeley Forum

[cebuboy]

1) Scholarship amounts?
2) What do you want to do?
3) Where do you want to work after law school?

As well as savings and parental contribution and other mitigating circumstances. Also... DAT IVY PREFTIGE.

Yeah...as much as I hate to admit it, the whole prestige thing is a factor (especially abroad). Berkeley is a great school, but it's not "elite" (and that can be a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to).

Sorry to say this but this has got to be the most stupid post I've seen on this message board.

I wonder how this poster define elite.

[Dr. Dre]

Go to Columbia.

and Berkeley is known for its graduate programs...but for UG, not so much.

[jbagelboy]

+1 to all of this. Berkeley is arguably just as prestigious a university as Columbia worldwide. It has more top ranked programs than Columbia University. Even if your strictly talking about lay prestige, Berkeley is more well known as a research institution and more highly regarded in many parts of the world

Even in Europe, specifically in the UK, the Berkeley brand name carries more weight than the Columbia name, both in the academia and business community.

I know OPs stated interest is in Asia, so this is beside the point, but I would say "meh" to the question of European perspective. CLS definitely has a more europe-centric international program than Berkeley with many more opportunities in that theater. Attorneys I spoke to at a huge IP firm in Hamburg and my friends family at capgemeni in Paris said go to columbia if you cant go to stanford or harvard and want to work in continental europe. Moot point anyway

[monathenomad]

1) Scholarship amounts?
2) What do you want to do?
3) Where do you want to work after law school?

As well as savings and parental contribution and other mitigating circumstances. Also... DAT IVY PREFTIGE.

Yeah...as much as I hate to admit it, the whole prestige thing is a factor (especially abroad). Berkeley is a great school, but it's not "elite" (and that can be a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to).

Sorry to say this but this has got to be the most stupid post I've seen on this message board.

I wonder how this poster define elite.

elite=private, well-known (rich maybe?) - I will make sure to include personal definitions in my future posts And yeah, that was a pretty useless post but its true. No one would associate Berkeley with the term "elite".

[jbagelboy]

No one would associate Berkeley with the term "elite".

false. so false. how are you so wrong

[Dr. Dre]

No one would associate Berkeley with the term "elite".

false. so false. how are you so wrong

no one from california equates Cal with prestige.


EXCEPT: the PhD programs. they are excellent.

[Golden Bear 11]

Biased, of course, but

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... -officials

School name (state) U.S. News National Universities rank Undergraduate academic peer assessment score Undergraduate academic peer assessment rank
Harvard University (MA) 1 4.9 1
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 6 4.9 1
Stanford University (CA) 6 4.9 1
Princeton University (NJ) 1 4.8 4
Yale University (CT) 3 4.8 4
University of California--Berkeley 21 4.7 6
Columbia University (NY) 4 4.6 7
University of Chicago 4 4.6 7
California Institute of Technology 10 4.6 7
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 13 4.6 7
Cornell University (NY) 15 4.6 7
Duke University (NC) 8 4.5 12
University of Pennsylvania 8 4.4 13
Dartmouth College (NH) 10 4.4 13
Northwestern University (IL) 12 4.4 13
Brown University (RI) 15 4.4 13
University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 29 4.4 13
University of Virginia 24 4.3 18
Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 23 4.2 19
University of California--Los Angeles 24 4.2 19
University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 30 4.2 19
Washington University in St. Louis 14 4.1 22
Vanderbilt University (TN) 17 4.1 22
Georgetown University (DC) 21 4.1 22
Georgia Institute of Technology 36 4.1 22
University of Wisconsin--Madison 41 4.1 22
University of Texas--Austin 46 4.1 22

[jbagelboy]

No one would associate Berkeley with the term "elite".

false. so false. how are you so wrong

no one from california equates Cal with prestige.


EXCEPT: the PhD programs. they are excellent.

since berkeley has ~10,000 graduate students, there's plenty of excellence and "elite"-ness to go around.

some private school kids** might not think of Cal at the same level, but the majority of the state would consider their flagship school "elite", however vaguely the useless term could be applied. If you talk to people in the state who lack our ridiculous educational pedigree, attending UC Berkeley (even -- dare I say it -- as an undergraduate!) would seem very elite indeed. Have you been on the campus? it screams aloofness.

**like me

[Dr. Dre]

I've been to berkeley's campus.

Smells like urine, bums all over the place, and no diversity (all asian).

NO, berkeley is not prestigious

[totoro]

I've been to berkeley's campus.

Smells like urine, bums all over the place, and no diversity (all asian).

NO, berkeley is not prestigious

But what perspective are you speaking from? Maybe to people in the US, the undergrad is not that prestigious. However the prestige of a name abroad is usually much more correlated with grad research programs than the undergrad. Can guarantee you the vast majority of people in East Asia have heard of Berkeley and literally do think it is one of the best schools next to HYS and MIT. It's possibly more well known than Columbia (since it is on the west coast).

[monathenomad]

Wait wait. Hold on guys. I think you misunderstood me. I never said Berkeley wasn't prestigious. I'm in China right now and when I tell people I graduated from Berkeley, they all say "Oh wow..." and look at me with wide eyes. (Also there is definitely a difference between Berkeley's undergrad and graduate programs. There are some people I met at Berkeley during undergrad whom I seriously wondered how they got in.)

Berkeley is very prestigious. Globally. But that's definitely not the same thing as elite. Coming from Berkeley, I've been taught to associate the word elite with privilege and exclusion and presumptuousness (elitism is probably closer to what I was thinking of than elite). And Berkeley is none of that. It was one of the most welcoming and down to earth places I've ever experienced. This isn't directed at any other schools or private institutions. Just a little love for Cal.

[sinfiery]

I've been to berkeley's campus.

Smells like urine, bums all over the place, and no diversity (all asian).

NO, berkeley is not prestigious

For grad programs prestige level, its HPSB
hth

[Real Madrid]

I've been to berkeley's campus.

Smells like urine, bums all over the place, and no diversity (all asian).

NO, berkeley is not prestigious

Lol, you are such a moron.

[Dr. Dre]

I agree, Berkeley's reputation rests on CERTAIN graduate programs. BUt this reputation spills onto its undeserved undergraduate program. Yet I still would not call Berkeley prestigious, even if it is known in Asia. Most people from the east coast have never heard of berkeley! And those on the west side would not correlate CAL with PRESTIGE.

[twinkletoes16]

.

[twinkletoes16]

.

[Dr. Dre]

Well your high school probably sucked. But this is true of most California K-12 schools. You also probably know a lot of people who went to TTT CSU's. Not many people (in high school) know that C and UPENN are ivies, but those people don't matter.

[beepboopbeep]

lol, this thread.

OP - I think the poster earlier who identified this as a "grass is greener" situation was on to something. It sounds like you would be happier at Boalt and want to go there, but feel like you should get out and experience somewhere else. Maybe you should! But that's a decision you have to make for yourself, and know that it's entirely about your happiness and living situation. Don't let it affect your opinions on the quality/prestige/etc of these two schools; keep that shit separate.

I've heard some vague things about there being a benefit to having the same school listed on your resume for both undergrad and law school, but take that with many grains of salt.

[untar614]

I agree, Berkeley's reputation rests on CERTAIN graduate programs. BUt this reputation spills onto its undeserved undergraduate program. Yet I still would not call Berkeley prestigious, even if it is known in Asia. Most people from the east coast have never heard of berkeley! And those on the west side would not correlate CAL with PRESTIGE.

Almost everyone I know in CA considers Berkeley to be extremely prestigious. For high school, if you went to an ivy, Stanford, or Berkeley after graduation, you were considered "set."

Saying this as someone who didn't go to any of those.

I'm not disagreeing with u regarding berk, but fwiw there are a lot of ppl here who think UF is prestigious. It amuses me.

[Dr. Dre]

I'm not disagreeing with u regarding berk, but fwiw there are a lot of ppl here who think UF is prestigious. It amuses me.

state schools' reputations always get glorified

[jbagelboy]

Well your high school probably sucked. But this is true of most California K-12 schools. You also probably know a lot of people who went to TTT CSU's. Not many people (in high school) know that C and UPENN are ivies, but those people don't matter.

my high school in CA was super competitive .. all my friends knew columbia was a prestigious ivy. some might not have known about penn but most would, esp. wharton. as much as I hate USNWR, all high school students intending to go to 4-year colleges know these lists:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... iversities
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... s-colleges

and you can't miss #4 and #8.

[Dr. Dre]

Well your high school probably sucked. But this is true of most California K-12 schools. You also probably know a lot of people who went to TTT CSU's. Not many people (in high school) know that C and UPENN are ivies, but those people don't matter.

my high school in CA was super competitive .. all my friends knew columbia was a prestigious ivy. some might not have known about penn but most would, esp. wharton. as much as I hate USNWR, all high school students intending to go to 4-year colleges know these lists:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... iversities
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... s-colleges

and you can't miss #4 and #8.

that's good to know you went to a great high school

[Real Madrid]

ITT: Someone who's been begging for information on any possible boost he can get in his application process to get into a semi-respectable school tries and fails to shit on the #1 public school in the world.

[Dr. Dre]

the #1 public school in the world.

NOT #1 public university in the world

[Real Madrid]

the #1 public school in the world.

NOT #1 public university in the world

Considering Oxford and Cambridge aren't true "public" universities, it is indeed arguably the top public school in the world. And even if you consider the aforementioned schools public, it's still easily the top public school in the US and one of the top schools in the world.

Academic Ranking of World Universities

1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. MIT
4. University of California, Berkeley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_R ... iversities

In 2013, the Times Higher Education World University Rankings named Berkeley the world's 5th most prestigious university, and one of six globally recognized "super brands." The 2012-2013 Times Higher Education World University Rankings placed Berkeley 9th in the world, 6th in the United States, and 3rd in California

And, despite your arguments to the contrary, it's been the top-ranked undergraduate school in the country per US News for as long as I can remember.


But by all means, don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments.