POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

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romothesavior
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:30 pm

Yeah, a couple of things to keep in mind OP:

1) Like rink said, talking to lawyers who graduated a while ago isn't all that helpful unless they're directly involved in hiring. Things have just changed so drastically from 20-30 years ago (or even 10 years ago) that a comparison is fruitless. And even people involved in hiring are a little clueless if they only operate in a vacuum; many hiring folks seem to think "Well I hired a guy from School X a few years ago and he's a good attorney, so the school must be a great investment!"

2) Even more importantly, you shouldn't rely on anecdotes over the hard data we have now. You could find highly successful graduates of literally every law school in the country. Even in this rough economy, there will be a handful of people at schools like St. Thomas and the like that wind up doing really well. But when you compare their success with that of their class as a whole, it becomes immediately clear that they are outliers. For every successful attorney you meet from a Tier 4 school, there is probably at least one or two people who graduated with them who isn't even practicing law, and many more who are struggling attorneys. You really should read and digest the data we have available to us in making this big decision.

I know its hard to take another year and study, especially since you are itching to get out of your folks' house. But you shouldn't let the short-term inconvenience of your situation push you into making a bad investment of your time and money. You can get into far better schools if you apply yourself and get a better LSAT. If you scored a 152 with no prep at all, then a 160+ is easily attainable, and I imagine a 170 is possible with adequate study and commitment (i.e., 3-4 hours a day for 3 months). Go check out our LSAT Forum, build yourself a study plan, get the resources you need, and bust your butt for the October exam. This is a far easier and FAR cheaper approach than trying to kill it at a T4 and transferring out.

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:32 pm

romothesavior wrote:Yeah, a couple of things to keep in mind OP:

1) Like rink said, talking to lawyers who graduated a while ago isn't all that helpful unless they're directly involved in hiring. Things have just changed so drastically from 20-30 years ago (or even 10 years ago) that a comparison is fruitless. And even people involved in hiring are a little clueless if they only operate in a vacuum; many hiring folks seem to think "Well I hired a guy from School X a few years ago and he's a good attorney, so the school must be a great investment!"

2) Even more importantly, you shouldn't rely on anecdotes over the hard data we have now. You could find highly successful graduates of literally every law school in the country. Even in this rough economy, there will be a handful of people at schools like St. Thomas and the like that wind up doing really well. But when you compare their success with that of their class as a whole, it becomes immediately clear that they are outliers. For every successful attorney you meet from a Tier 4 school, there is probably at least one or two people who graduated with them who isn't even practicing law, and many more who are struggling attorneys. You really should read and digest the data we have available to us in making this big decision.

I know its hard to take another year and study, especially since you are itching to get out of your folks' house. But you shouldn't let the short-term inconvenience of your situation push you into making a bad investment of your time and money. You can get into far better schools if you apply yourself and get a better LSAT. If you scored a 152 with no prep at all, then a 160+ is easily attainable, and I imagine a 170 is possible with adequate study and commitment (i.e., 3-4 hours a day for 3 months). Go check out our LSAT Forum, build yourself a study plan, get the resources you need, and bust your butt for the October exam. This is a far easier and FAR cheaper approach than trying to kill it at a T4 and transferring out.


Yea... I keep imagining being stigmatized throughout my career because of my alma mater. It is not a pleasant image and I'm gonna do my best to retake.

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northwood
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby northwood » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:41 pm

I'm glad you have decided to retake.

Remember: the most important class you take during law school is your summer internship position. while this is ungraded and may not even be paid, it provides you with actual, hands on legal experience ( even if you are just a copy boy/girl) and more importantly than that helps you create your professional network. While its fine to take a class or two, its more important to spend your time actually in the field.

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Tekrul
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby Tekrul » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:28 am

Thank god! Dude I am so happy to see you are going to retake.

Be sure to check out the LSAT prep forum. Post questions on the board, read through study guidelines, get yourself many practice tests from amazon. The bundles of 10 are convenient but for the more recent tests, you'll need to buy them one by one.

You can outperform your GPA with a rock solid LSAT score. Lower number of LSAT takers mean the absolute number of high LSAT scores out there have decreased. The curve and percent remains the same but the number of people out there walking around with 170+ is less. This will cause, IMO, LSAT scores to dwarf GPA as schools try to maintain their most important median. Kill the PS and DS as well, head to that board for editing feedback. A well written statement can help turn a gap in work/resume into an informative experience.

By the way, I understand you are having some issues with your parents. Please show them the law school transparency website on the schools they are urging you to go to "just get the degree and worry about the job later" and help them realize what they were trying to send you into.

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:00 am

Tekrul wrote:Thank god! Dude I am so happy to see you are going to retake.

Be sure to check out the LSAT prep forum. Post questions on the board, read through study guidelines, get yourself many practice tests from amazon. The bundles of 10 are convenient but for the more recent tests, you'll need to buy them one by one.

You can outperform your GPA with a rock solid LSAT score. Lower number of LSAT takers mean the absolute number of high LSAT scores out there have decreased. The curve and percent remains the same but the number of people out there walking around with 170+ is less. This will cause, IMO, LSAT scores to dwarf GPA as schools try to maintain their most important median. Kill the PS and DS as well, head to that board for editing feedback. A well written statement can help turn a gap in work/resume into an informative experience.

By the way, I understand you are having some issues with your parents. Please show them the law school transparency website on the schools they are urging you to go to "just get the degree and worry about the job later" and help them realize what they were trying to send you into.



I appreciate the positive post. I didn't think about that. The number of high LSATers has gone down quite a bit. It will be interesting to see what happens in next year's admissions cycle.

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:28 pm

Well.. taking a stand on this point started WWIII with the parents. They are even saying go and they will pay sticker at a transfer school. I am simply not allowed to wait another year. Thinking about joining the coast guard.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:30 pm

T4Rockstar wrote:Well.. taking a stand on this point started WWIII with the parents. They are even saying go and they will pay sticker at a transfer school. I am simply not allowed to wait another year. Thinking about joining the coast guard.


Wtf? That blows dude. Did you show them the employment numbers?

Hell, show them this thread.

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worldtraveler
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:34 pm

T4Rockstar wrote:Well.. taking a stand on this point started WWIII with the parents. They are even saying go and they will pay sticker at a transfer school. I am simply not allowed to wait another year. Thinking about joining the coast guard.


Show them law school transparency. It's amazing they're willing to blow their money and your future.

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northwood
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby northwood » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:42 pm

be the adult and don't go this year

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Tekrul
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby Tekrul » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Godamn! Did you show them the Law School Transparency website on the school they're trying to boat you off to?

FFS, direct them to this thread and have them read the words of people in the know. In addition, I would have many words for them.

Well, if you're truly out of options, I know a few people who took a few years in the armed forces and went to pursue law/UG afterwards. One guy I know actually found the area of law he was passionate about while serving. Military law, Admiralty Law, etc. He came to speak at a panel at my UG and told his whole story.

Going to the Coast Guard may not be all that bad if you want to serve before going to law school. I'm not an expert on the area but will Coast Guard offer you veteran benefits and/or help pay for school?

ookoshi
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby ookoshi » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:31 pm

I think my advice boils down to this.

You consciously made a decision to not study for the LSAT and not getting any sleep before taking it. This proves that even today, you continue to be afflicted with an inability to make smart decisions regarding your life. You should immediately stop making any and all decisions regarding law school and allow the rest of us here on TLS is make them for you, as taking the aggregate advice of any 10 random posters on TLS will produce a better result than taking the LSAT blind and enrolling in Florida Coastal.

I have a 2.3 GPA and got 60k from Emory. Stop whining about your low GPA and start making good decisions.

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untar614
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby untar614 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:27 pm

double post
Last edited by untar614 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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untar614
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby untar614 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:27 pm

T4Rockstar wrote:Well.. taking a stand on this point started WWIII with the parents. They are even saying go and they will pay sticker at a transfer school. I am simply not allowed to wait another year. Thinking about joining the coast guard.


If that's your only other option, military service wouldn't be the worst. That would give you time to reapply later, plus since your gpa would likely mean that if/when you manage a higher lsat, you can get into some good schools but may not get much money, so GI bill that up.

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:27 am

untar614 wrote:
T4Rockstar wrote:Well.. taking a stand on this point started WWIII with the parents. They are even saying go and they will pay sticker at a transfer school. I am simply not allowed to wait another year. Thinking about joining the coast guard.


If that's your only other option, military service wouldn't be the worst. That would give you time to reapply later, plus since your gpa would likely mean that if/when you manage a higher lsat, you can get into some good schools but may not get much money, so GI bill that up.


Yea... GI bill could be really big.

Thanks for the input people.

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northwood
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby northwood » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:14 am

the coast guard is still active military duty, so I believe that all veteran benefits apply. Double check of course, but as the only non -combat oriented branch of the service ( they protect our shores from smugglers, boaters/ seamen in distress, etc) It isn't that bad of a branch to go into.

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jrthor10
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby jrthor10 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:42 am

For what it's worth, this is my contribution to this thread...

T4Rockstar it sounds like you live in South Florida....if this is the case, you're actually in luck, because you are surrounded by more than a handful of people who are dumb and making worse decisions than you.

Miami-Dade and South Florida in general is probably the best place to go to a lower level law school and be successful. Partly because the general population is dumber, on average, than the rest of the country. Seriously.

Now that doesn't mean you can go to St. Thomas or Florida Coastal (honestly not even sure where the F in Florida this is) and be successful. But it does mean that a school like UM, for example, actually places much better into big law then its ranking would suggest. Why? Because of the lack of good schools in the area combined with the fairly large legal market. There are some recent statistics on UM to back this up, and I'll try to find them....

All of that said, don't go to a lower ranked school then UM. Maybe FIU if it is 100% free, but the two schools you mentioned in your post belong in the deepest depths of hell...

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:45 am

jrthor10 wrote:For what it's worth, this is my contribution to this thread...

T4Rockstar it sounds like you live in South Florida....if this is the case, you're actually in luck, because you are surrounded by more than a handful of people who are dumb and making worse decisions than you.

Miami-Dade and South Florida in general is probably the best place to go to a lower level law school and be successful. Partly because the general population is dumber, on average, than the rest of the country. Seriously.

Now that doesn't mean you can go to St. Thomas or Florida Coastal (honestly not even sure where the F in Florida this is) and be successful. But it does mean that a school like UM, for example, actually places much better into big law then its ranking would suggest. Why? Because of the lack of good schools in the area combined with the fairly large legal market. There are some recent statistics on UM to back this up, and I'll try to find them....

All of that said, don't go to a lower ranked school then UM. Maybe FIU if it is 100% free, but the two schools you mentioned in your post belong in the deepest depths of hell...



Yea... I mean that is what I have noticed about down here too. What do you think about Nova? The employment scores aren't bad. I know people who are placing. If go there I have zero living expenses and it is ten minutes away. I am seriously very confident that I will rank high. Especially because the numbers for this class will be down. If I am unable to transfer, I think that I have enough connections that I wouldn't starve coming out of that school. Any yes, everyone here is absolutely retarded. It's a strange phenomenon. I grew up here and watched the intellect diminish over the years. Maybe it's the water. Lol.

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rinkrat19
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:48 am

T4Rockstar wrote:What do you think about Nova? The employment scores aren't bad.
"not bad" must mean something different to you than it does to me.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nova&show=ABA

T4Rockstar
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby T4Rockstar » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:12 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
T4Rockstar wrote:What do you think about Nova? The employment scores aren't bad.
"not bad" must mean something different to you than it does to me.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nova&show=ABA


Yea... Look next to St. Thomas and Florida Coastal though. Definitely better.

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Postby Myself » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:20 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:14 am

"Seriously very confident I will place high in my class" = Too lazy to retake the most important exam of my life which I completely blew off the first time, but arrogant enough to think I will dominate my similarly situated and similarly credentialed peers at something I've never done before

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vanwinkle
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:17 pm

romothesavior wrote:"Seriously very confident I will place high in my class" = Too lazy to retake the most important exam of my life which I completely blew off the first time, but arrogant enough to think I will dominate my similarly situated and similarly credentialed peers at something I've never done before

Called this already:

vanwinkle wrote:
T4Rockstar wrote:If I can conceivably get 165-170 on the LSAT, shouldn't I blow the competition at St. Thomas away?

What you actually get matters more than what you can "conceivably get". And if you're the type who just assumes their ability can be greater than they test at, without doing anything to actually improve their test results, then you're going to suck in law school.

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hephaestus
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Re: POS school, but practically free and 2 years!

Postby hephaestus » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:36 pm

T4Rockstar wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
T4Rockstar wrote:What do you think about Nova? The employment scores aren't bad.
"not bad" must mean something different to you than it does to me.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nova&show=ABA


Yea... Look next to St. Thomas and Florida Coastal though. Definitely better.

Better than two awful schools =/= not bad. The fact that you are acting so immature about this process is indicative that you should at least wait a year or two and gain some work experience while retaking the LSAT.




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