Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

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MrStark
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Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby MrStark » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:05 pm

I've been accepted into Pepperdine Law but also won full tuition scholarships from both Chapman and California Western.

Pepperdine has a much better reputation than the other two schools, and from what I understand the job prospects are significantly better, but the cost of about 45k more dollars per year is a lot of money.

Thoughts?

edit- The following information can also be found in my response below:

I'm strongly considering intellectual property law, probably something to do with transactions or copyright. I'm also thinking about international law.

Both scholarships fully cover my tuition so long as I maintain my grades (3.0 for Chapman, 78% for California Western). California Western also covers the cost of books. That's all they cover.

My cost options are 45k per year or free at Chapman/Cal Western. I'm not sure how I will be financing my COA. It will either be a loan or my parent's money.

I'm from LA, so I won't have to pay for housing for both Pepperdine and Chapman (but the commute to Chapman from LA is horrid)

My LSAT was a 160 and my GPA is a 3.34

I've only taken the LSAT once. I'm not so keen on doing it again.
Last edited by MrStark on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:08 pm

Career goals?

Stipulations on schollies?

katjust
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby katjust » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:08 pm

Don't even think about paying full tuition at Pepperdine if you have free tuition at the other schools. The job prospects at Pepperdine aren't that great anyway. We aren't talking about Stanford versus Chapman. Pepperdine shouldn't even be considered given the information you've stated.

tabula rasa
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby tabula rasa » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:09 pm

Retake.

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Winston1984
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Winston1984 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:11 pm

None of the above.

Big Dog
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Big Dog » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:11 pm

don't attend law school with only those options.


timbs4339
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Stips...stips...STIPS?!?!?

dissonance1848
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:21 pm

None of the above. Retake and reapply.

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LiquidJames
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby LiquidJames » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:58 pm

i say chapman, but pepperdine if u want the beach

MrStark
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby MrStark » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:24 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:Career goals?

Stipulations on schollies?


I'm strongly considering intellectual property law, probably something to do with transactions or copyright. I'm also thinking about international law.

Both scholarships fully cover my tuition so long as I maintain my grades. California Western also covers the cost of books. That's all they cover.

katjust wrote:Don't even think about paying full tuition at Pepperdine if you have free tuition at the other schools. The job prospects at Pepperdine aren't that great anyway. We aren't talking about Stanford versus Chapman. Pepperdine shouldn't even be considered given the information you've stated.


Chapman's ranking is twice the number than Pepperdine's is. That has to mean something.

romothesavior wrote:Please follow the instructions.


My cost options are 45k per year or free at Chapman/Cal Western

I'm not sure how I will be financing my COA. It will either be a loan or my parent's money.

I'm from LA, so I won't have to pay for housing for both Pepperdine and Chapman (but the commute to Chapman from LA is horrid)

My LSAT was a 160 and my GPA is a 3.34

I've only taken the LSAT once. I'm not so keen on doing it again.
Last edited by MrStark on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:40 pm

MrStark wrote:Both scholarships fully cover my tuition so long as I maintain my grades. California Western also covers the cost of books. That's all they cover.

Lol maintain what grades?

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Rahviveh
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:41 pm

MrStark wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:Career goals?

Stipulations on schollies?


I'm strongly considering intellectual property law, probably something to do with transactions or copyright. I'm also thinking about international law.

Both scholarships fully cover my tuition so long as I maintain my grades. California Western also covers the cost of books. That's all they cover.

katjust wrote:Don't even think about paying full tuition at Pepperdine if you have free tuition at the other schools. The job prospects at Pepperdine aren't that great anyway. We aren't talking about Stanford versus Chapman. Pepperdine shouldn't even be considered given the information you've stated.


Chapman's ranking is twice the number than Pepperdine's is. That has to mean something.

romothesavior wrote:Please follow the instructions.


My cost options are 45k per year or free at Chapman/Cal Western

I'm not sure how I will be financing my COA. It will either be a loan or my parent's money.

I'm from LA, so I won't have to pay for housing for both Pepperdine and Chapman (but the commute to Chapman from LA is horrid)

My LSAT was a 160 and my GPA is a 3.27

I've only taken the LSAT once. I'm not so keen on doing it again.

Go to Pepperdine since at least you won't commit suicide from that horrible commute

MrStark
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby MrStark » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
MrStark wrote:Both scholarships fully cover my tuition so long as I maintain my grades. California Western also covers the cost of books. That's all they cover.

Lol maintain what grades?


3.0 for Chapman
78% for Cal Western

y2zipper
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby y2zipper » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:09 pm

Trust me when I say do the LSAT again. It's exactly what I'm doing. I'm a 160 3.0 and I was in the same spot you're looking at. Oh, and I'm working a crap retail job for another year to make it happen. Nobody loves doing it again and disappointing family, but those schools place like crap and scholarship strips are brutal dude. You owe it to yourself to maximize your score and make the best possible investment in your life and sitting a year won't hurt you unless there's a case of pancreatic cancer you're not telling us about.

If you've already done three takes and live close enough to these schools to not borrow, then roll the dice and be willing to pull the plug if you lose the scholly. But don't do it now.

MrStark
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby MrStark » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:21 pm

But why should I take the LSAT again? Do you not consider Pepperdine to be a good school? If so, please give me a reason for why. Without an explanation these posts that tell me to do neither are useless. My understanding is that Pepperdine has a great reputation, great education, and high(er) ranking, although the job prospects could be better. Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?

enigmabk
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby enigmabk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:33 pm

MrStark wrote:But why should I take the LSAT again? Do you not consider Pepperdine to be a good school? If so, please give me a reason for why. Without an explanation these posts that tell me to do neither are useless. My understanding is that Pepperdine has a great reputation, great education, and high(er) ranking, although the job prospects could be better. Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?

You have to be fucking joking. Its baffling how 0ls do not do their due diligence with such a massive investment. Go to law school transparency and look up those schools. Come back here after and let us know what you think

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby WokeUpInACar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:34 pm

MrStark wrote:But why should I take the LSAT again? Do you not consider Pepperdine to be a good school? If so, please give me a reason for why. Without an explanation these posts that tell me to do neither are useless. My understanding is that Pepperdine has a great reputation, great education, and high(er) ranking, although the job prospects could be better. Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?

Pepperdine is not a good school when it comes to the most important aspect of legal education, getting a job. Many people in the area may regard it highly, and they may have many accomplished alumni and faculty members, but none of this matters if you cannot get a job after graduating that will help you pay off your student loan debt. It is surely possible to get a good job coming from Pepperdine, but the odds are overwhelmingly against you. Lawschooltransparency is an excellent resource that allows us to see just how bad these schools are at placing their graduates into desirable jobs. It will show you that less than HALF of Pepperdine graduates were employed in ANY legal job that requires a JD 9 months after graduation. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=pepperdine

Basically: Attending any of these schools would be a very very very bad idea. Retaking the LSAT is mandatory if you truly want to become a lawyer.

y2zipper
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby y2zipper » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:07 pm

MrStark wrote:Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?


That's exactly what I'm saying, and a better lsat is your tool. Excuse my bluntness there. The point of going to law school is getting a job as a lawyer that will allow you to pay off your debt when you're done. The rest of the stuff doesn't matter and like a lot of professions, be job market is abysmal.

Pepperdine at full price is a 150,000 or so investment that gives you a 42% chance at a lawyer job when you're done per Law school transparency. And that doesn't go into detail about making the salary to pay back 150k with interest. The education you get there is about the same as any other law school, but the brand name gets you hired in this profession.

Chapman places roughly 1/3, but the data indicates that you'd have to stay in roughly the top 3rd of your class to keep it free. It essentially becomes not worth it if the scholarship goes away, but then you could at least transition to something else without life-crushing debt if that doesn't work out for you.

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romothesavior
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:33 pm

MrStark wrote:But why should I take the LSAT again? Do you not consider Pepperdine to be a good school? If so, please give me a reason for why. Without an explanation these posts that tell me to do neither are useless. My understanding is that Pepperdine has a great reputation, great education, and high(er) ranking, although the job prospects could be better. Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?

Let me break it down for you:

1) Pepperdine has very poor job prospects. Your odds of becoming a real lawyer are less than 50/50 from Pepperdine, and the types of jobs people get are generally not very desirable. They place less than 10% of people into clerkships + firms of over 100, while placing a whopping 45 students into firms of 2-10.

2) Do you have ANY idea how much money you are talking about spending? Are you going to finance your education with debt? If you are, then once you factor in tuition, cost of living, books, fees, and interest while you're in law school, you'll have well over a quarter million dollars in non-dischargable debt at graduation. It could very well take you 15, 20, 25 years to pay that off (if ever). You could spend around a half a million dollars for the degree. And even if you're spending cash or getting outside assistance, the job prospects don't justify spending six figures on the degree.

So put (1) and (2) together. You're thinking of spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a roughly 50/50 shot at a full-time, long-term, JD-required job. There is a real likelihood that you'll be trying to service that massive debt load on a 30-40k job, and possibly a non-legal job. Does that sound enticing to you?

Look, we're not here to keep you from your dream of being a lawyer; we're trying to help you get there. If you think law school is the right path for you, then great. But you need to do it in a way that is financially feasible, and in a way that puts you in a position to get a real lawyer job. We're also not telling you Pepperdine sucks because we're elitists, or because we have a personal grudge against the school or something. We're telling you it sucks because when it comes to jobs/debt, it's ridiculously expensive with terrible placement. Cal Western and Chapman are free tuition for you, but their job prospects are even worse. I honestly don't think I'd waste my time with either even if it was 100% free.

Retaking the LSAT sucks, we get that. But it is well, well, well worth it, and would probably be the best decision of your life. Going to Pepperdine at sticker would almost undoubtedly be the worst decision of your life. Quite honestly, if being a lawyer is what you want to do, then rushing into a crappy school with crappy prospects because you don't want to retake is the epitome of laziness. You need to be willing to make sacrifices and put in the work to make this thing happen. TLS is full of people who were in your shoes, and made the wise decision to take a year or two off to retake. Retaking really can change the course of your future. That's why we're urging you to do it. Good luck.

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Clearly
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:
MrStark wrote:But why should I take the LSAT again? Do you not consider Pepperdine to be a good school? If so, please give me a reason for why. Without an explanation these posts that tell me to do neither are useless. My understanding is that Pepperdine has a great reputation, great education, and high(er) ranking, although the job prospects could be better. Or are you saying that I should shoot for scholarships at better schools?

Let me break it down for you:

1) Pepperdine has very poor job prospects. Your odds of becoming a real lawyer are less than 50/50 from Pepperdine, and the types of jobs people get are generally not very desirable. They place less than 10% of people into clerkships + firms of over 100, while placing a whopping 45 students into firms of 2-10.

2) Do you have ANY idea how much money you are talking about spending? Are you going to finance your education with debt? If you are, then once you factor in tuition, cost of living, books, fees, and interest while you're in law school, you'll have well over a quarter million dollars in non-dischargable debt at graduation. It could very well take you 15, 20, 25 years to pay that off (if ever). You could spend around a half a million dollars for the degree. And even if you're spending cash or getting outside assistance, the job prospects don't justify spending six figures on the degree.

So put (1) and (2) together. You're thinking of spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a roughly 50/50 shot at a full-time, long-term, JD-required job. There is a real likelihood that you'll be trying to service that massive debt load on a 30-40k job, and possibly a non-legal job. Does that sound enticing to you?

Look, we're not here to keep you from your dream of being a lawyer; we're trying to help you get there. If you think law school is the right path for you, then great. But you need to do it in a way that is financially feasible, and in a way that puts you in a position to get a real lawyer job. We're also not telling you Pepperdine sucks because we're elitists, or because we have a personal grudge against the school or something. We're telling you it sucks because when it comes to jobs/debt, it's ridiculously expensive with terrible placement. Cal Western and Chapman are free tuition for you, but their job prospects are even worse. I honestly don't think I'd waste my time with either even if it was 100% free.

Retaking the LSAT sucks, we get that. But it is well, well, well worth it, and would probably be the best decision of your life. Going to Pepperdine at sticker would almost undoubtedly be the worst decision of your life. Quite honestly, if being a lawyer is what you want to do, then rushing into a crappy school with crappy prospects because you don't want to retake is the epitome of laziness. You need to be willing to make sacrifices and put in the work to make this thing happen. TLS is full of people who were in your shoes, and made the wise decision to take a year or two off to retake. Retaking really can change the course of your future. That's why we're urging you to do it. Good luck.

180. Well said, and well intended. Listen to him OP. Realize legal job doesn't mean 6 figures! You have a 50-50 shot of being a lawyer at all, and 90% of those that will win that lottery will be making <$50,000 a year, likely by quite a bit. Please retake! If you insist on going, I'd say try to negotiate the stips on the scholarships, and try to go for free...unemployed with no debt is better then under/unemployed with a ton of debt. Realize those stips mean you have poor odds at keeping the scholarship, and if you fail to do so, you would be screwed.

timbs4339
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:25 am

Also you need to disabuse yourself of the notion, real fast, that when we say the school has a 50% job rate it means those jobs are in international or IP law or any kind of big money area of law. They're not. We're talking local DA, public defender, "law clerk" or associate at a small family firm or personal injury shop in the area. You'll be making 40-60K and will be on IBR without any hope of paying down the debt within the 20 year limit and maintaining a decent lifestyle.

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hephaestus
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby hephaestus » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:33 am

Romo's response is so spot on.
Also, what is your UG background that you are thinking of IP?

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Tekrul
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Re: Pepperdine VS Free tuition at Chapman or California Western

Postby Tekrul » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:09 am

Bro, we have the same exact GPA and mine gets even worse factoring in my W and I wouldn't accept your cycle. You've only taken the LSAT once? Why in god's name are you not 'keen' on taking it again?

I don't want to be a jerk but suck it up and study hard for the LSAT and take it again.

Then buy romo a Mercedes after you land biglaw from a t-14 as an inadequate thank you gift for saving your life.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:20 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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