UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

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pennvschicago
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UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby pennvschicago » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:36 pm

Hi! I have been accepted to both penn and chicago law with matching scholarships, but I was wondering which school would be better for biglaw placement in California. I know that Chicago is ranked higher but NLJ just released a report that Penn is #1 whereas Chicago is #2. I don't know what the perception of these schools is on the west coast but I do want to ultimately end up in California. I went to visit both schools and did enjoy Penn's environment more, but I don't know if that is worth the lower ranking. Any feedback would be appreciated!

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The Brainalist
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby The Brainalist » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:49 pm

http://californiabar.globl.org/results. ... d=&status=

1353 alumni for UChi in the california bar

http://californiabar.globl.org/results. ... d=&status=

936 alumni for UPenn in the california bar

Ultimately, though, placement in CA from out of state primarily will be highly correlated to number of people attending the school who want to go back to CA, since ties matter and since self-selection matters. That being the case, one thing you should be concerned about in these two highly regarded schools, is not just the rate of return to CA, but the ease of opportunity to do so - specifically, how many firms interviewing at the OCI/OGI/Whatever are actually interviewing for hiring in California. For that number, you should contact each school.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:24 pm

Chicago.

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Emma.
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby Emma. » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 am

Doorkeeper wrote:Chicago.

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IAFG
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby IAFG » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:38 am

It's going to be ties >>>>>>>> school.

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jselson
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby jselson » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:54 am

Doorkeeper wrote:Chicago.

Revolver066
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby Revolver066 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:01 am

I'd go Chicago here too, but I'd guess the difference isn't really that big.

pennvschicago
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby pennvschicago » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:30 pm

Is the favorable student culture/general fit of Penn's campus a significant enough reason to choose Penn? The students at Chicago seemed much more stressed than the students at Penn, but does this matter if the quality of the school is much greater?

Big Dog
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby Big Dog » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:33 pm

The real problem with this comparison is the self-selection that occurs mainly at Penn. Easterners who are more than happy with big law in NYC will happily attend Penn. Thus, Penn is not gonna have a lot of folks heading out west; they have no interest.

gaucholaw
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby gaucholaw » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:57 pm

OP: where are your ties from?

I can't think of the stats off the top of my head, but logically I would imagine that UChi would give a slight boost in returning to Cali over Penn.... with that said, I believe that Penn is strong enough that you wouldn't have too much difficulty in returning. Moreover, I'm a big advocate of quality of life.... how could one not objectively do better in an environment that they prefer 8) Thus, IMO the QOL difference at Penn could be worth the ever so slight advantage of UChi. Have you tried seeing if Penn will slightly exceed UChi's scholly offer?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:50 am

IAFG wrote:It's going to be ties >>>>>>>> school.


This.

Also, attorneys from your school are also important. This won't matter as much at one of the biggest shops like OMM, or Latham, but will matter at smaller offices. I believe Chicago has a strong advantage here, but I could be wrong.

Also, I interviewed with over half of the Vault firms in the state, and don't remember seeing a ton of alumni from Penn on websites. It was more (kind of imprecise) 1. Berkeley, 2. Stanford, 3. Harvard, 4. The Regionals, 5. Chicago/Columbia, 7. NYU/Michigan/Yale, 8. Other T14s and semi-regionals like the Arizona and Utah top schools.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:03 am

pennvschicago wrote:Hi! I have been accepted to both penn and chicago law with matching scholarships, but I was wondering which school would be better for biglaw placement in California. I know that Chicago is ranked higher but NLJ just released a report that Penn is #1 whereas Chicago is #2. I don't know what the perception of these schools is on the west coast but I do want to ultimately end up in California. I went to visit both schools and did enjoy Penn's environment more, but I don't know if that is worth the lower ranking. Any feedback would be appreciated!

Ignore the ordinal rankings on those NLJ charts. The schools that are within a few percentage points are going to be pretty much identical, and will shuffle around substantially from year to year, especially the smaller schools. If Chicago had 6-7 more graduates in NLJ 250 firms and Penn had 6-7 less, then Chicago would have been 1 and Penn 2. That difference could easily be due to a few people having good luck with clerkship applications, or a few individuals having bad luck with law firm interviews, or a couple people wanting to work in public interest, etc.

That said I agree with IAFG, I don't think that either school is going to put you in a vastly superior position. If this is your only consideration then probably edge to Chicago on reputation, since it's more universally known as an elite school and has been for longer and more consistently. But I would be pretty surprised if going to Penn instead of Chicago was the difference maker for anyone in this situation.

PRgradBYU
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:45 pm

IAFG wrote:It's going to be ties >>>>>>>> school.

Informative
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby Informative » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:44 pm

Why not just go to Cal?

pennvschicago
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby pennvschicago » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:45 pm

I'm from California which is why I would like to return, but unfortunately did not get into Berkeley which would have been the ideal option. I called Penn and Chicago today and Penn seems to have more California firms coming to OCI + has a regional interviewing program. Does this make a difference?

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The Brainalist
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Re: UPenn vs. UChicago--California BigLaw placement

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:50 pm

I don't think Penn would be a bad idea, since it places decently in CA, but I'd still be hesitant to pass on Chicago for no reason other than it has a larger and more consistent presence in CA in terms of alumni. In addition to the global bar search above, it may help for your to see how schools placed in CA in 2012, as shown by LST http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=ca :

Chicago: 13%
Yale: 12.2%
Duke: 12%
NU: 10.4%
NYU: 10.4%
Harvard: 10.2%
UPenn: 9.6%
Columbia 7.2%
Cornell: 6.3%
GULC: 5.8%
Mich: ?
UVA: ?

So, Penn's placement, percentagewise, is decent. And, given the OCI information (if true, though I'm skeptical) suggesting penn has more california firms available through the OCI process, it wouldn't be a bad choice at all. However, if you are of the-proof-is-in-the-pudding approach, it seems like Chicago's reach to the West Coast is pretty undeniable.




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