Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

???

Cornell COA $132,000
25
31%
UVA $175,000
16
20%
Penn COA $204,000
18
23%
Reapply (see below)
21
26%
 
Total votes: 80

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Br3v » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Did you apply to Chicago?

With a 3.9 you know the drill is usually to suggest retake, but you already have a 172. If you feel you could perform better though I see no reason why not to retake June, sit and ride out H wait list/hear from Duke. If your score comes back even better, then sit out and reapply next year (granted you have to be comfortable making such a huge decision that close to classes starting).

User avatar
Br3v
Posts: 4174
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Br3v » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:45 pm

Skye wrote:Penn is a de facto T6. Except with better BL placement. Why are you still thinking about this? You have already crossed the goal line.


This is not the lounge.

User avatar
Justin Genious
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Justin Genious » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:45 pm

I'd like to read your PS as well if thats cool. Shoot me a PM if you're down

User avatar
Mack12
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Mack12 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:54 pm

helix23 wrote:Do you need to retake? Reapply and write a better personal statement this time.

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Yardbird » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:02 pm

You should get in contact with Penn and Cornell 1Ls to get a true COL for Philly/Ithaca. UVA estimates COL at 17k but students I've talked to say $12k is more than enough for rent, utilities, cable, Internet, and food.

If you're using UVA's estimates for COA and subtracting 75k I'd recalculate. Tuition at about $53,500 for out of state x 3 = 160,500 + 12,000 per year COL = 196,500. Take out 75k and you're sitting more at $121,500 for COA (round up to $125,000 to be safe).

User avatar
TripTrip
Posts: 2738
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby TripTrip » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:02 pm

Skye wrote:Penn is a de facto T6. Except with better BL placement. Why are you still thinking about this? You have already crossed the goal line.

Yeah, don't you know? YHSCCNP. The T6. :roll:

User avatar
Jaqen
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:23 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Jaqen » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:03 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:If you wouldn't mind, may I read your PS? From having talked with you on these boards and seeing your GPA/LSAT score I know that you're not dumb enough to write some crazy auto-ding shit, but I would still like to see if there is anything I can identify as a possible "red flag" in your statement. (I am aware that this is a nosy request, so feel free to say no. :wink: )


Justin Genious wrote:I'd like to read your PS as well if thats cool. Shoot me a PM if you're down


I sent a summary to y'all. Let me know if you want the actual thing.

Br3v wrote:Did you apply to Chicago?


Yep. WLed.

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming. I still feel p conflicted but this is helping.

User avatar
Jaqen
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:23 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Jaqen » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:06 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:You should get in contact with Penn and Cornell 1Ls to get a true COL for Philly/Ithaca. UVA estimates COL at 17k but students I've talked to say $12k is more than enough for rent, utilities, cable, Internet, and food.

If you're using UVA's estimates for COA and subtracting 75k I'd recalculate. Tuition at about $53,500 for out of state x 3 = 160,500 + 12,000 per year COL = 196,500. Take out 75k and you're sitting more at $121,500 for COA (round up to $125,000 to be safe).


I used UVA's COA with the Georgetown calculator: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

Your method doesn't take into account tuition/COL increases or interest that accrues during school, no?

User avatar
Justin Genious
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Justin Genious » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:16 pm

Jaqen wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:If you wouldn't mind, may I read your PS? From having talked with you on these boards and seeing your GPA/LSAT score I know that you're not dumb enough to write some crazy auto-ding shit, but I would still like to see if there is anything I can identify as a possible "red flag" in your statement. (I am aware that this is a nosy request, so feel free to say no. :wink: )


Justin Genious wrote:I'd like to read your PS as well if thats cool. Shoot me a PM if you're down


I sent a summary to y'all. Let me know if you want the actual thing.

pm'd

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Yardbird » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Jaqen wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:You should get in contact with Penn and Cornell 1Ls to get a true COL for Philly/Ithaca. UVA estimates COL at 17k but students I've talked to say $12k is more than enough for rent, utilities, cable, Internet, and food.

If you're using UVA's estimates for COA and subtracting 75k I'd recalculate. Tuition at about $53,500 for out of state x 3 = 160,500 + 12,000 per year COL = 196,500. Take out 75k and you're sitting more at $121,500 for COA (round up to $125,000 to be safe).


I used UVA's COA with the Georgetown calculator: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

Your method doesn't take into account tuition/COL increases or interest that accrues during school, no?
It takes into account tuition and COL increases in the rounding up. It doesn't take into account interest since the school is not for scholly purposes. Also, I very much doubt UVA's tuition will rise at 3.5% each year. I think this year's rise is closer to 2%. Food for thought. COL in the area might rise differently than tuition too. If you want to really be accurate, build an amortization schedule for your loans and calculate COA increases for tuition and COL separately and based on each school's/city's average tuition/COL increases.

Also I do not know how the calculator handles interest capitalization but PLUS loans SEEM to accrue interest separate from the principal and capitalize after your grace period (6 months after graduation) and then accrue and capitalize immediately. I am basing this off of my Parent's PLUS loan for my undergrad and my friend's grad PLUS loan - both serviced by mygreatlakes and both did not capitalize until after graduation and the 6 month grace period.

[Edit 1] Edits to first paragraph
[Edit 2] I would not trust any financial model unless a) it was built by yourself or b) someone can explain to you how everything is being calculated.
[Edit 3] I can build one if you want. I'd have it done tomorrow.
Last edited by Yardbird on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby hephaestus » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:21 pm

Skye wrote:I voted Penn! Such an obvious choice! You'll love it. Ivy babe (in a real city).

Are you a troll or just an idiot?
Edit: or joking.

User avatar
JamesDean1955
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:06 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:49 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
Jaqen wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:You should get in contact with Penn and Cornell 1Ls to get a true COL for Philly/Ithaca. UVA estimates COL at 17k but students I've talked to say $12k is more than enough for rent, utilities, cable, Internet, and food.

If you're using UVA's estimates for COA and subtracting 75k I'd recalculate. Tuition at about $53,500 for out of state x 3 = 160,500 + 12,000 per year COL = 196,500. Take out 75k and you're sitting more at $121,500 for COA (round up to $125,000 to be safe).


I used UVA's COA with the Georgetown calculator: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

Your method doesn't take into account tuition/COL increases or interest that accrues during school, no?
It takes into account tuition and COL increases in the rounding up. It doesn't take into account interest since the school is not for scholly purposes. Also, I very much doubt UVA's tuition will rise at 3.5% each year. I think this year's rise is closer to 2%. Food for thought. COL in the area might rise differently than tuition too. If you want to really be accurate, build an amortization schedule for your loans and calculate COA increases for tuition and COL separately and based on each school's/city's average tuition/COL increases.

Also I do not know how the calculator handles interest capitalization but PLUS loans SEEM to accrue interest separate from the principal and capitalize after your grace period (6 months after graduation) and then accrue and capitalize immediately. I am basing this off of my Parent's PLUS loan for my undergrad and my friend's grad PLUS loan - both serviced by mygreatlakes and both did not capitalize until after graduation and the 6 month grace period.

[Edit 1] Edits to first paragraph
[Edit 2] I would not trust any financial model unless a) it was built by yourself or b) someone can explain to you how everything is being calculated.
[Edit 3] I can build one if you want. I'd have it done tomorrow.


I'd be interested in this too :)

User avatar
JamesDean1955
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:06 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:51 pm

So were there any red flags in the personal statement? Don't need anyone to post publicly any specifics, was just curious if it was a yes or no.

User avatar
Justin Genious
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Justin Genious » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:51 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:[Edit 2] I would not trust any financial model unless a) it was built by yourself or b) someone can explain to you how everything is being calculated.

Exactly. GULC calculator can sit on it.

User avatar
Jaqen
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:23 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Jaqen » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:54 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
Jaqen wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:You should get in contact with Penn and Cornell 1Ls to get a true COL for Philly/Ithaca. UVA estimates COL at 17k but students I've talked to say $12k is more than enough for rent, utilities, cable, Internet, and food.

If you're using UVA's estimates for COA and subtracting 75k I'd recalculate. Tuition at about $53,500 for out of state x 3 = 160,500 + 12,000 per year COL = 196,500. Take out 75k and you're sitting more at $121,500 for COA (round up to $125,000 to be safe).


I used UVA's COA with the Georgetown calculator: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... geid=61621

Your method doesn't take into account tuition/COL increases or interest that accrues during school, no?
It takes into account tuition and COL increases in the rounding up. It doesn't take into account interest since the school is not for scholly purposes. Also, I very much doubt UVA's tuition will rise at 3.5% each year. I think this year's rise is closer to 2%. Food for thought. COL in the area might rise differently than tuition too. If you want to really be accurate, build an amortization schedule for your loans and calculate COA increases for tuition and COL separately and based on each school's/city's average tuition/COL increases.

Also I do not know how the calculator handles interest capitalization but PLUS loans SEEM to accrue interest separate from the principal and capitalize after your grace period (6 months after graduation) and then accrue and capitalize immediately. I am basing this off of my Parent's PLUS loan for my undergrad and my friend's grad PLUS loan - both serviced by mygreatlakes and both did not capitalize until after graduation and the 6 month grace period.

[Edit 1] Edits to first paragraph
[Edit 2] I would not trust any financial model unless a) it was built by yourself or b) someone can explain to you how everything is being calculated.
[Edit 3] I can build one if you want. I'd have it done tomorrow.


I'd be interested in this too :)


Yea that'd be cool.

User avatar
sinfiery
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby sinfiery » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:05 pm

I'd retake and reassess what to do once you get your score back and have ridden the WLs long enough for movement to come from them.

I share similar areas of weakness in my app (lack of UG preftige plus weak softs) and they aren't the easiest thing to overcome in 4 months.

As for where to deposit, I think Cornell is easily the winner here.

User avatar
Jaqen
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:23 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Jaqen » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:41 pm

Duke sent out an email asking if I wanted to stay on Priority Reserve and encouraging LOCIs.

I think it went out to all PRed people, but still. Nice timing Duke. 8)

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Yardbird » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:43 pm

So that model I promised is gonna be delayed a little bit. I live in Boston and got 0 work done from Thursday night through last night.

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby 20141023 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:42 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Yardbird » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:00 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:So that model I promised is gonna be delayed a little bit. I live in Boston and got 0 work done from Thursday night through last night.

I previously built this thing where you can actually go into the macros if you want and look at the calculators. It is kind of based around the GULC calculator plus some other newer information I've found online and on these boards. I am working on a newer version that takes PAYE into account, but the current model basically assumes that you will be paying off loans with brute force (hence, only use this as a COA estimator and don't worry as much about the repayment years).

*This calculator assumes that interest is capitalized 6 months after graduation, and thus the interest doesn't begin compounding until then.
My model is going to be similar but will automatically populate data for the T30 law schools (according to the 2014 US News Report) and will account for tuition increases and COL increases.

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby 20141023 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:21 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

SportsFan
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby SportsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:15 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:So that model I promised is gonna be delayed a little bit. I live in Boston and got 0 work done from Thursday night through last night.

I previously built this thing where you can actually go into the macros if you want and look at the calculators. It is kind of based around the GULC calculator plus some other newer information I've found online and on these boards. I am working on a newer version that takes PAYE into account, but the current model basically assumes that you will be paying off loans with brute force (hence, only use this as a COA estimator and don't worry as much about the repayment years).

*This calculator assumes that interest is capitalized 6 months after graduation, and thus the interest doesn't begin compounding until then.
My model is going to be similar but will automatically populate data for the T30 law schools (according to the 2014 US News Report) and will account for tuition increases and COL increases.

Gotcha. :D In case you haven't gathered the data already, here is the COL and tuition info for all of the law schools. Also, I have a thing in that debt-pwnage calculator that allows the user to enter the tuition and COL increase, but it defaults to 3.5%; when I previously looked up the increases since like 2003 at Chicago, it had been all over the place, so I decided to let the user determine whether they wanted to over-estimate or under-estimate it:

University of Chicago
Year: Tuition (Increase from Previous Year)
2004-2005: $34,419.00
2005-2006: $36,138.00 (4.99%)
2006-2007: $37,945.00 (5.00%)
2007-2008: $41,607.00 (9.65%)
2008-2009: $41,835.00 (0.55%)
2009-2010: $44,757.00 (6.98%)
2010-2011: $46,185.00 (3.19%)
2011-2012: $47,786.00 (3.47%)
2012-2013: $49,875.00 (4.37%)
Average: 4.78%

Those tuition increases... ugh... Went from ~$107k to ~$142k (not taking interest or anything into account). Shameful.

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby Yardbird » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:29 pm

The loan payoff calculator with tax calculations isn't complete yet (second sheet), but the first sheet with COA calculations is 100% done:

Thread with Download Link

I gathered all the data myself from the schools' websites to insure consistency and accuracy.

dixon02
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:27 am

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby dixon02 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:42 pm

Reapplying just seems like such an obvious call here. In a vacuum the choices you have right now are not terrible, but one year could easily save you $100,00, which seems worth it. I doubt your lack of softs is what's killing you, but on the slim chance it is having an effect then taking a year to work and build your resume can only help.

Wait a year, get a job, maybe even hire an app consultant (I wouldn't normally recommend that, but it seems like the only possible explanation for your cycle is a problem in your app). If you think you can do better on the LSAT, a retake shouldn't hurt either. Reapply next year and you should get close to full rides at lower end T14 and solid money anywhere outside HYS (where you'll also have a shot to get in).

With your numbers, taking one of these options just does not seem prudent.

User avatar
helix23
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:18 pm

Re: Cornell v UVA v Penn v Reapply

Postby helix23 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:15 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:So that model I promised is gonna be delayed a little bit. I live in Boston and got 0 work done from Thursday night through last night.

I previously built this thing where you can actually go into the macros if you want and look at the calculators. It is kind of based around the GULC calculator plus some other newer information I've found online and on these boards. I am working on a newer version that takes PAYE into account, but the current model basically assumes that you will be paying off loans with brute force (hence, only use this as a COA estimator and don't worry as much about the repayment years).

*This calculator assumes that interest is capitalized 6 months after graduation, and thus the interest doesn't begin compounding until then.


Image




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dodocogon, UVA2B and 10 guests