CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school helps an applicant more for big government positions?

Columbia
31
82%
Georgetown
7
18%
 
Total votes: 38

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you'rethemannowdawg
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CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby you'rethemannowdawg » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:54 am

Which of these schools would be better for an applicant hoping for BigGov, not necessarily in DC? (AUSA,SEC,Solicitor General, USAG).

Obviously HYS would be ideal, but that's not an option.

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Clearly
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby Clearly » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:55 am

C

062914123
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby 062914123 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:34 pm

.
Last edited by 062914123 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Brainalist
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby The Brainalist » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:03 pm

School: 2012 class govt placement (per ABA)/ 2011 graduating class size (per NLJ) / rate

GU 93 / 637 / .145
Corn 20 / 188 / .106
UVa 36 / 377 / .095
Berk 27 / 305 / .088
Col 35 / 455 / .076
NYU 35 / 466 / .075
Mich 28 / 378 / .074
NU 13 / 286 / .045
D 10 / 219 / .045
H 25 / 583 / .042
Y 7 / 205 / .034
Ch 6 / 203 / .029
Penn 6 / 274 / .021
Stan 3 / 181 / .016

exitoptions
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby exitoptions » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:07 pm

I don't have exact figures, but I remember seeing numbers on various gov't honors programs and Georgetown does very well. I don't know if that's because people with government backgrounds tend to end up at Georgetown or if it's the school's connections.

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Clearly
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby Clearly » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:34 pm

No stats are going to do C justice in this case. Self-selection is going to skew it to appear G outplaces C in Gov, which numerically is possibly true, but I'd be willing to bet a student at C has a better shot for your goals.

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TripTrip
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby TripTrip » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:49 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:No stats are going to do C justice in this case. Self-selection is going to skew it to appear G outplaces C in Gov, which numerically is possibly true, but I'd be willing to bet a student at C has a better shot for your goals.

+1

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BruceWayne
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:00 pm

This is the kind of position where the TLS self created rankings will really misguide you. There is no such thing as "CCN" for non NYC biglaw jobs. Bigfed, and pretty much everyone else other than NYC biglaw, only see HYS and then the rest of the top 14 (and private non NYC biglaw legal employers lean towards the top 14 in their region).

BidFed employers really, really, really will not care whether you attend CLS or Georgetown. What they will care about is whether you are above or below the median at either school. Being below the median at CLS will screw you for BigGov just as much as it will at GULC. They will want to see high grades, journals, and demonstrated interest (i.e. clinics in the area of the law that the agency practices in and internships with fed gov as well as pro bono work). If you want the name of your school to give you a huge boost for BigGov you need to go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. Other than that which top 14 you go to won't matter--except for the fact that it's easier to get the demonstrated interest portion of your app checked off by going to GULC because you can volunteer during the semester with the fed gov.

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The Brainalist
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby The Brainalist » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:38 pm

BruceWayne wrote:This is the kind of position where the TLS self created rankings will really misguide you. There is no such thing as "CCN" for non NYC biglaw jobs. Bigfed, and pretty much everyone else other than NYC biglaw, only see HYS and then the rest of the top 14 (and private non NYC biglaw legal employers lean towards the top 14 in their region).

BidFed employers really, really, really will not care whether you attend CLS or Georgetown. What they will care about is whether you are above or below the median at either school. Being below the median at CLS will screw you for BigGov just as much as it will at GULC. They will want to see high grades, journals, and demonstrated interest (i.e. clinics in the area of the law that the agency practices in and internships with fed gov as well as pro bono work). If you want the name of your school to give you a huge boost for BigGov you need to go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. Other than that which top 14 you go to won't matter--except for the fact that it's easier to get the demonstrated interest portion of your app checked off by going to GULC because you can volunteer during the semester with the fed gov.


The statistics I posted don't necessarily show that it is a better idea to choose GULC over Columbia for government, but they certainly don't support that people from YSH get a huge boost over somewhere like Columbia. I'd really love to see your support for the idea that somewhere like the DOJ is falling over itself to take a bottom of the class harvard student yet really only requires good grades, journals, and demonstrated interest from a Columbia candidate.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:35 pm

I think the right answer is whichever is cheaper. I don't think the federales are crapping themselves over a CLS degree.

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jbagelboy
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:19 pm

Its worth noting that if at any point you changed your mind about going directly into government, or thought of doing fedclerk -> gov or biglaw -> gov, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to georgetown over columbia. I would only got to gulc if i knew I really, really, really wanted a certain type of gov work and had a superior aid package (which seems likely given rankings/demand/ect.)

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Monty The Dog
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby Monty The Dog » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:This is the kind of position where the TLS self created rankings will really misguide you. There is no such thing as "CCN" for non NYC biglaw jobs. Bigfed, and pretty much everyone else other than NYC biglaw, only see HYS and then the rest of the top 14 (and private non NYC biglaw legal employers lean towards the top 14 in their region).

BidFed employers really, really, really will not care whether you attend CLS or Georgetown. What they will care about is whether you are above or below the median at either school. Being below the median at CLS will screw you for BigGov just as much as it will at GULC. They will want to see high grades, journals, and demonstrated interest (i.e. clinics in the area of the law that the agency practices in and internships with fed gov as well as pro bono work). If you want the name of your school to give you a huge boost for BigGov you need to go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. Other than that which top 14 you go to won't matter--except for the fact that it's easier to get the demonstrated interest portion of your app checked off by going to GULC because you can volunteer during the semester with the fed gov.


The statistics I posted don't necessarily show that it is a better idea to choose GULC over Columbia for government, but they certainly don't support that people from YSH get a huge boost over somewhere like Columbia. I'd really love to see your support for the idea that somewhere like the DOJ is falling over itself to take a bottom of the class harvard student yet really only requires good grades, journals, and demonstrated interest from a Columbia candidate.


The statistics you posted are misleading for YHS in the same way that "NJL 250" statistics are misleading for HYS. They survey grads a year out of law school. HYS students who are going to be working in BigGov are likely spending this year clerking, doing a Heyman fellowship, or something of the sort. It's absurd to think that only 7 YLS and 3 Stanford grads are going to end up in government out of any given class year.

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Nelson
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:No stats are going to do C justice in this case. Self-selection is going to skew it to appear G outplaces C in Gov, which numerically is possibly true, but I'd be willing to bet a student at C has a better shot for your goals.

Citation needed.

This is just law student prestige whoring at work. Columbia's only possible advantage is a mildly better shot at clerking, which is a big plus for fed gov lit jobs.

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Nelson
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:20 pm

BruceWayne wrote:This is the kind of position where the TLS self created rankings will really misguide you. There is no such thing as "CCN" for non NYC biglaw jobs. Bigfed, and pretty much everyone else other than NYC biglaw, only see HYS and then the rest of the top 14 (and private non NYC biglaw legal employers lean towards the top 14 in their region).

BidFed employers really, really, really will not care whether you attend CLS or Georgetown. What they will care about is whether you are above or below the median at either school. Being below the median at CLS will screw you for BigGov just as much as it will at GULC. They will want to see high grades, journals, and demonstrated interest (i.e. clinics in the area of the law that the agency practices in and internships with fed gov as well as pro bono work). If you want the name of your school to give you a huge boost for BigGov you need to go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. Other than that which top 14 you go to won't matter--except for the fact that it's easier to get the demonstrated interest portion of your app checked off by going to GULC because you can volunteer during the semester with the fed gov.

TITCR

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The Brainalist
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby The Brainalist » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:25 pm

Monty The Dog wrote:

The statistics you posted are misleading for YHS in the same way that "NJL 250" statistics are misleading for HYS. They survey grads a year out of law school. HYS students who are going to be working in BigGov are likely spending this year clerking, doing a Heyman fellowship, or something of the sort. It's absurd to think that only 7 YLS and 3 Stanford grads are going to end up in government out of any given class year.


Of course.

You know who else goes to work for the government after a clerkship, working in private practice, or something else. People from schools other than Harvard, Stanford, and Yale.

You know who likely isn't doing a clerkship? Bottom of the class at Harvard, bad grades, no journal, no clinic, no government background. So, nothing you are saying supports the bat's hyperboly.

I'm not sure anyone deserves extra credit for wasting time doing a clerkship or a "Hey, Man" fellowship just to get the exact same job anyway. Maybe GULC students have it right.

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moonman157
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby moonman157 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:35 pm

There are still factors to consider other than which school is deemed more "prestigious" by BigGov. Personally, if I was gunning for BigGov, I'd rather be at the school with a lot less students and a student body that is more likely to self-select into areas other than BigGov.

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The Brainalist
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Re: CLS v. Georgetown for BigGov?

Postby The Brainalist » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:49 pm

moonman157 wrote:There are still factors to consider other than which school is deemed more "prestigious" by BigGov. Personally, if I was gunning for BigGov, I'd rather be at the school with a lot less students and a student body that is more likely to self-select into areas other than BigGov.


I tend to agree. I'm not sure it is to your benefit to be competing with so many people from your own school for the same job. I'd prefer to look like an apple competing against an orange rather than two oranges striving to differentiate. Too much of that at OCI already.




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