All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

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Hastings or Loyola, all else equal.

Loyola
16
30%
Hastings
37
70%
 
Total votes: 53

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Cobretti
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Cobretti » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:23 pm

LiquidJames wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


oh dude, i totally know that feel

I saw LiquidJames was the last poster, clicked expecting to see some hilarious troll advice for OP to go to Chapman instead. Very disappointed...

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Kronk
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Kronk » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:30 pm

I don't know what the TLS obsession with forcing the right choice on people is. Inform the dude he is making a poor, poor decision, and that he will probably end up being the unemployed lawyer he desires to me. If he still wants to make that choice, that's his problem. No need to beat him to a pulp about it.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:34 pm

Kronk wrote:I don't know what the TLS obsession with forcing the right choice on people is. Inform the dude he is making a poor, poor decision, and that he will probably end up being the unemployed lawyer he desires to me. If he still wants to make that choice, that's his problem. No need to beat him to a pulp about it.




nah fuck that! OP will likely be on welfare as a result of going to a TTT, and I will have to pay for his subsistence living via taxes. Don't even get me started on the loans he will have to forsake.

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LiquidJames
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby LiquidJames » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:47 pm

Cobretti wrote:
LiquidJames wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


oh dude, i totally know that feel

I saw LiquidJames was the last poster, clicked expecting to see some hilarious troll advice for OP to go to Chapman instead. Very disappointed...


i don't troll, that's juts childish, as much as i am confident in what i believe is right, i understand that you and others hold different opinions

WanderingPondering
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby WanderingPondering » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:51 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


You realize you wouldnt be an unemployed lawyer. You would be an unemployed person with a useless JD. This doesn't make you a lawyer.

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hephaestus
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby hephaestus » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:54 pm

WanderingPondering wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


You realize you wouldnt be an unemployed lawyer. You would be an unemployed person with a useless JD. This doesn't make you a lawyer.

This. An unemployed person with six figures of debt.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:58 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
WanderingPondering wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:OP, if you're so smart as you proclaim, the soundest choice you could make is to not go to lawl school.


In all honesty, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer (working as whatever else and towards gainful legal employment) than an employed [enter whatever else here]. I'm incorrigible.


You realize you wouldnt be an unemployed lawyer. You would be an unemployed person with a useless JD. This doesn't make you a lawyer.

This. An unemployed person with six figures of debt.


The employment stats, bad as they may be, don't even support this assumption.

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FKASunny
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby FKASunny » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:07 pm

I'm looking forward to the inevitable "Median at Hastings, struck out OCI, should I drop out?" thread next fall.

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LiquidJames
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby LiquidJames » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:36 pm

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) wrote:I'm looking forward to the inevitable "Median at Hastings, struck out OCI, should I drop out?" thread next fall.


why would you be looking forward to it? that' s just hateful, guy's posting to ask a question, if you don't like his questions, you don't have to answer. if you don't agree with OP's choice, you can say why you don't, but such ill wishing is really uncalled for

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Mick Haller
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:36 pm

Kronk wrote:I don't know what the TLS obsession with forcing the right choice on people is. Inform the dude he is making a poor, poor decision, and that he will probably end up being the unemployed lawyer he desires to me. If he still wants to make that choice, that's his problem. No need to beat him to a pulp about it.


Call it generational solidarity if you like. We have to work together to break the shitboomer machine. I don't like seeing people snookered into Le Cordon Bleu pastry chef degrees either. And you are crazy if you think student loan debt won't harm the economy for all of us.

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Kronk
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Kronk » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:42 pm

Mick Haller wrote:
Kronk wrote:I don't know what the TLS obsession with forcing the right choice on people is. Inform the dude he is making a poor, poor decision, and that he will probably end up being the unemployed lawyer he desires to me. If he still wants to make that choice, that's his problem. No need to beat him to a pulp about it.


Call it generational solidarity if you like. We have to work together to break the shitboomer machine. I don't like seeing people snookered into Le Cordon Bleu pastry chef degrees either. And you are crazy if you think student loan debt won't harm the economy for all of us.


My uncle told me: "I never give advice to someone who doesn't ask for it, and most of the time, even if they ask for it they don't want it." That's pretty much true. Clearly true in this case. He is determined to go to law school. We're not gonna save the U.S. economy from getting him not to go to Hastings.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:51 pm

Kronk wrote:We're not gonna save the U.S. economy from getting him not to go to Hastings.


but we could

timbs4339
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:25 am

Kronk wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:
Kronk wrote:I don't know what the TLS obsession with forcing the right choice on people is. Inform the dude he is making a poor, poor decision, and that he will probably end up being the unemployed lawyer he desires to me. If he still wants to make that choice, that's his problem. No need to beat him to a pulp about it.


Call it generational solidarity if you like. We have to work together to break the shitboomer machine. I don't like seeing people snookered into Le Cordon Bleu pastry chef degrees either. And you are crazy if you think student loan debt won't harm the economy for all of us.


My uncle told me: "I never give advice to someone who doesn't ask for it, and most of the time, even if they ask for it they don't want it." That's pretty much true. Clearly true in this case. He is determined to go to law school. We're not gonna save the U.S. economy from getting him not to go to Hastings.


*We're not gonna save the U.S. Economy by convincing people not to take on crappy subprime mortgages and then refinance their houses to buy SUVs and flatscreens*

(2006 guy)
Last edited by timbs4339 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FKASunny
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby FKASunny » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:26 am

Kronk wrote:My uncle told me: "I never give advice to someone who doesn't ask for it, and most of the time, even if they ask for it they don't want it."

Did you ask for this advice?

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hephaestus
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby hephaestus » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:47 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:The employment stats, bad as they may be, don't even support this assumption.

46% score on LST for Hastings. 41% at Loyola. They support this exact assumption.

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romothesavior
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:30 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:It's almost impossible to see any California law school other than Stan/Berk/UCLA/USC as a good investment.

If you are borrowing more than 60k or so on this venture, you are making a bad decision. Put it this way, you are looking at about 40% chance of full time legal employment, and if you are lucky enough to make it into that group, your salary will probably be around $60,000.

I'd save three years of my life and all the $$ and just cut to the chase and get a 45-50k job and try to work my way up.

<---- Hastings 2012 grad


Given the accomplishments of a lot of alumns, I have to disagree that these are shit schools. Job market is tough. I know this.

Dude, you don't determine whether a school is good or not based on the accomplishments of some of their alumni. I could find you a decent handful of very successful alumni (firm partners, judges, general counsels, CEOs and VPs of big companies, etc.) from every law school in the country, including dumps like New York Law School, Cooley, etc. Just about every law school in the country is churning out people to decent jobs, even in this economy. That doesn't make them good. A good school is one that, for the average graduate, is able to place them into a solid job. The job data clearly shows that this is not the case for either of these schools.

Your approach to this massive financial and career investment is woeful. You are not approaching this rationally or skeptically. You are staring down the barrel of six-figures of debt and likely un/under-employment, and all you're doing in this thread is grasping for someone to validate your decision. Those of us who have actually been through this process, those of us who have been in your shoes and gone through hiring and are about to graduate or are recent graduates, are all telling you to abandon ship. Even a 2012 Hastings graduate thinks you're make a terrible mistake. Not only that, but all the job statistics are there for you to see, and they're not very good. How naive and stubborn do you have to be to plow ahead anyways in the face of all this advice and all this data?

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:35 pm

The Mayor of Los Angeles went to People's College of Law. (Failed the bar 4 times)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Villaraigosa

Why is thread still going?

--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

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Kronk
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby Kronk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:37 pm

J-e-L-L-o wrote:Why is thread still going?


Because someone is WRONG on the internet.

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moonman157
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby moonman157 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:06 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


That's well said. Back in law's heyday (hell, even back 10 years ago) we were looking at a much different market. Of course, this would all be more fine and dandy if law schools weren't charging up the ass either. If law schools were charging 15k/year for tuition, there'd be a lot less doomsday scambloggers.


Right. I don't hate that there is such a movement against law school, as I believe it is necessary to keep enrollment down and prices in check (this is yet to be seen, however). It also serves to weed out the people that are going into law for the wrong reasons.

There is one thing I've learned from attorneys I talk to away from the forums, though: happy and succesfull attorneys aren't online raving about how awesome things are. Having said that, there are lots of newly minted attorneys and law students facing grim job prospects that have reason to be concerned. However, the beast that dominates us will be the one that we feed. To that end, while I intend to go to the best school I can with the best statistical outcomes, I won't be letting an employment score of 0 get in my way--I will buck the trend.


This is a textbook case of special snowflake syndrome. OP, I really hope you do succeed and it all works out for you, but know that no one should ever be as assured about their success in law school as you are, and especially shouldnt let that assurance dictate huge decisions. Don't just imagine yourself as one of the successful Hastings grads, imagine yourself as one of the many unemployed ones.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:37 pm

I have no sympathy for someone taking on six figures of debt to attend Hastings. It just doesn't make sense.

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PDaddy
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:59 pm

If you must attend one of these schools, it comes down to personal and career preference: L.A. or The Bay?

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PDaddy
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:05 pm

moonman157 wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:It's not that these are "shit schools," it's that the job market for attorneys is shit.


That's well said. Back in law's heyday (hell, even back 10 years ago) we were looking at a much different market. Of course, this would all be more fine and dandy if law schools weren't charging up the ass either. If law schools were charging 15k/year for tuition, there'd be a lot less doomsday scambloggers.


Right. I don't hate that there is such a movement against law school, as I believe it is necessary to keep enrollment down and prices in check (this is yet to be seen, however). It also serves to weed out the people that are going into law for the wrong reasons.

There is one thing I've learned from attorneys I talk to away from the forums, though: happy and succesfull attorneys aren't online raving about how awesome things are. Having said that, there are lots of newly minted attorneys and law students facing grim job prospects that have reason to be concerned. However, the beast that dominates us will be the one that we feed. To that end, while I intend to go to the best school I can with the best statistical outcomes, I won't be letting an employment score of 0 get in my way--I will buck the trend.


This is a textbook case of special snowflake syndrome. OP, I really hope you do succeed and it all works out for you, but know that no one should ever be as assured about their success in law school as you are, and especially shouldnt let that assurance dictate huge decisions. Don't just imagine yourself as one of the successful Hastings grads, imagine yourself as one of the many unemployed ones.


This! There's a saying on TLS: nearly 100% of all applicants believe they will be in the top-10% of their 1L class; 90% of them are guaranteed to be wrong.

Every law applicant/student thinks he/she is special, when the truth is that we are all special in our own ways but few of us are special in the professors' ways.

You are betting that all of the profs at your law school are going to see you as a stud - which you may really be - but you cannot count on them seeing you or your work that way.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:49 pm

PDaddy wrote:If you must attend one of these schools, it comes down to personal and career preference: L.A. or The Bay?


PDaddy, OP has a 90k top 50% stip offer from Loyola. If he HAS to go, choosing Hastings over the Loyola offer is pure insanity.

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PDaddy
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:07 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
PDaddy wrote:If you must attend one of these schools, it comes down to personal and career preference: L.A. or The Bay?


PDaddy, OP has a 90k top 50% stip offer from Loyola. If he HAS to go, choosing Hastings over the Loyola offer is pure insanity.


You're correct.

I'll be honest...I paid no attention to OP's scholly. Scholarships with stips other than those requiring 2.0 GPA are bad news. Schools can still game class placements. It's much harder to game a student's GPA. But you are correct; Loyola appears to be the better offer.

Hastings is a very good school, albeit one without great employment prospects right now. Having said that, I wouldn't go to either one.

By the way, you down with JT? He's an associate of mine. I played pro-am with him in Seattle.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: All else equal, Hastings or Loyola?

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:13 pm

Alright, this thread can die. Decided I'm not moving up to the Bay. This year it will be LLS or USC if it comes through (or Pepperdine if they come through with close to a full ride and no stips).

As I've said in other threads, I will be taking in June to see if I can gain into the high 160s or low 170s, otherwise I roll with the deposit I put down this cycle.

Thanks, guys. Keep posting if you like.




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